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Dondante
27-09-2006, 03:44
Anyone know the maximum solubility of these two compounds in either 100% ethanol or in a polyethylene glycol mix? I've heard 2 mg/mL in grain alcohol for alprazolam, but I was wondering if anyone has any more info on the solubility for either of these compounds. Thanks.

almost-
28-09-2006, 15:29
Alprazolam:
Practically insoluble in water; sparingly soluble in alcohol and in acetone; freely soluble in chloroform and dichloromethane.

Clonazepam:
Solubility in mg/mL at 25: acetone 31, chloroform 15, methanol 8.6, ether 0.7, benzene 0.5, water <0.1.

Source: Clarke's Analysis of Drugs and Poisons. Electronic edition.

jasoncrest
28-09-2006, 16:26
Anyone know the maximum solubility of these two compounds in either 100% ethanol or in a polyethylene glycol mix? I've heard 2 mg/mL in grain alcohol for alprazolam, but I was wondering if anyone has any more info on the solubility for either of these compounds. Thanks.

I think that Alprazolam and Clonazepam (both active and "recreational" at 0,5mg-1mg) are soluble enough in 1ml water + a few drops of Ethanol+Propyleneglycol.
That is if you want to prepare them for injection.

But even for other purposes, I think you only need a few drops of Ethanol+PropyleneGlycol in water to make a solvent in which Alprazolam and Clonazepam will be soluble....

hussness
30-09-2006, 05:20
This is a little off topic, but I am trying to get access to Clarke's Analysis of Drugs and Poisons. My institution doesn't have a hard copy or electronic access, and they can't get it via interlibrary loan. Any ideas on how I could other get access to the information?

jasoncrest
30-09-2006, 21:34
This is a little off topic, but I am trying to get access to Clarke's Analysis of Drugs and Poisons. My institution doesn't have a hard copy or electronic access, and they can't get it via interlibrary loan. Any ideas on how I could other get access to the information?

I wish I could access to "Clarke's Analysis of Drugs and Poisons" too.....

5-HT2
01-10-2006, 02:01
Yeah, you need something like 1-5% PEG in water to make reasonable amounts of benzos soluble. My memory could be rusty though, so I'll have to double-check this.

trypt
05-10-2006, 05:13
While I do not condone this activity, I figured out a way to get access to Clarke's Analysis of Drugs and Poisons, along with all the other MedicinesComplete publications (Martindale: the complete drug reference, Stockley's drug interactions, etc, etc) for free.

1. go to http://www.mytrashmail.com/ and check out the Temporary Email thing. Basically, you can have mail sent to AnyAddressYouCanThinkOf@mytrashmail.com and then just log-in to "AnyAddressYouCanThinkOf" on mytrashmail.com to read the mail sent to that address. You don't have to sign up or register for anything at all.

2. go to http://www.medicinescomplete.com/mc/registration.htm to set up a 15-day free registration to MedicinesComplete. Provide an @mytrashmail.com email address.

3. When your 15-day trial to MedicinesComplete is done, just sign up for another 15-day free trial with a different @mytrashmail.com account, ad infinitum.

It's a little bit of a hassle to have to re-register for the free trial (with a different e-mail address) every 15 days, but it really only takes a minute or two.

As for the original solubility question, my very limited experience (so far) with pure alprazolam powder would suggest that about 10-12mg is the max amount of alprazolam soluble in 50ml of 80-proof vodka. Although I suppose with more stirring, a little more alprazolam could dissolve than that. Does anybody have any laboratory-tested numbers for alprazolam solubility?

thesean001
05-10-2006, 05:59
i dont mean to hijack this topic or anything, but im curious myself as to whether i could crush a few mgs of xanax in a spoon and just.. dissolve it in vodka and inject it.
could i do that? and... should i dilute it?

how bad does shooting vodka hurt?

Dr.Heckyll
05-10-2006, 07:31
Clarke's Analysis of Drugs and Poisons is available for download from Emule.

Jamshyd
05-10-2006, 08:16
i dont mean to hijack this topic or anything, but im curious myself as to whether i could crush a few mgs of xanax in a spoon and just.. dissolve it in vodka and inject it.
could i do that? and... should i dilute it?

how bad does shooting vodka hurt?

Shooting vodka can be as bad as causing instant heat-attack, amongst many other possibilities.

Doing what you mention will likely dissolve more pill-binders than it would drugs.

NoddinWitAcoldBilly
05-10-2006, 18:23
i hope you arent asking so you can shoot up benzos :/

slopoke
05-10-2006, 20:41
I would think its probably because dondante wants to make pure powder dosing more accurate and safe...

Dondante
06-10-2006, 02:53
^^ you are correct! I would never think of shooting up benzos or anything for that matter. I would like to try IM with a few substances (does that count as shooting?), but for god sakes man, not benzos.

I actually got rid of most of the powder already as I was starting to notice bad effects from taking them just to sleep (never even took more than 1 mg alpazolam/day). Benzos are sneeky little bastards ... you don't think about it, and next thing you know you're taking them every night to sleep. I won't take them more than once a week now at most, or else I start to get some generalized anxiety during the following day.

So I tried to dissolve the clonazepam in 100% ETOH and I couldn't even get 1mg/mL ... still need to work on that. The identity of the clonazepam is in question at this point because of the unexpected difficulty in dissolving it, and the white color of the powder (it is reported to be a light yellow powder). I haven't tried the alprazolam yet, but I suspect it will be slightly more soluble.

lyserg
08-10-2006, 01:42
Almost all benzodiazepines have a bioavailability of 90% or greater. Its pretty stupid to load up a shot, especially with vodka, to get that little 10% of drug you would've lost. I mean, use common sense guys.

jasoncrest
08-10-2006, 02:07
Almost all benzodiazepines have a bioavailability of 90% or greater. Its pretty stupid to load up a shot, especially with vodka, to get that little 10% of drug you would've lost. I mean, use common sense guys.

Some people (like me...) don't shoot benzos "to get that little 10% of drug you would've lost" as you say, but to get a rush...
The rush is worth it...(only with hypnotic, triazolo- benzos)

Dondante
16-10-2006, 21:45
Well, the results are finally in ...

A 20 mg/mL solution of alprazolam was prepared in 100% ethanol. It took a good bit of shaking and a very small amount of heat (running under warm water), but it's all dissolved. I actually didn't think it was going to dissolve, because there was a good bit still left after the warming and shaking, but 4 hours later, it had all gone into solution! I was very surprised to get such a high concentration.

The alprazolam was from a trusted source ... the clonazepam OTOH, was from a different source and wasn't actually clonazepam, but that situation has been resolved.

Oh, and I'm still keeping my promise to myself that I won't use this stuff more than once or twice a week (usually at 0.5 mg and never more than 1 mg). Xanax is good at what it does, but benzos are definitely nothing to casually mess around with.

davjac
28-11-2006, 13:31
I wan't to dissolve 1gram Alprazolam powder, but in what ratio can i get it? I can't find any spirit stronger than 50% here. Are there other compounds i can use to dissolve the alprazolam that aren't dangerous.

davjac
30-11-2006, 08:57
I have a 50ml bottle with pippet, and i want to get 1gram of alprazolam powder into that would it work with 46% ethanol and Propyleneglycol?

GABAlover
01-12-2006, 08:36
i hope you arent asking so you can shoot up benzos :/

Please don't inject anything that is not designed to be injected. It's incredibly dangerous.

davjac
01-12-2006, 09:10
Like Heroin Coke Meth and more? :)

GABAlover
01-12-2006, 09:56
yeah, pretty much. I would only inject injectable pharms.

Dondante
01-12-2006, 17:31
I don't think there has been anyone hinting at injection in this thread. Putting pure pharmaceutical grade alprazolam in solution is about the only way to accurately dose out oral doses. Very, very few people have the necessary scales accurate to 0.0001 and even if you had one it would still be less accurate and painstaking to weigh out each individual dose.

I dosed my 20 mg/mL onto pez and it works like a charm. With 25 ul per pez, I get 0.50 mg alprazolam on each one (and with a very small margin of error).

Still I gotta say benzos suck unless you are just using them on a rare occasion to get to sleep. I use them about once a week now and they are perfect for the job, but it's easy to get physiologically addicted even after using them only 3 or 4 nights in a row.

Evad
25-03-2007, 18:35
Would it be possible to make a 0.4mg/ml solution of alprazolam solution using 80-proof vodka (100mg alprazolam in 250ml vodka) or would the solubility of the substance not allow for this concentration?

ayjay
26-03-2007, 07:05
Hi there - I've been participating in a email discussion with other Australian needle exchange workers for the last few days about injecting Xanax - apparently it is getting big in some of the farther-flung parts of Aus. Here's a titbit so you know where I'm coming from:


Hi all

We are having the same problem with Xanax injecting in Darwin to the extent that I have been referring to it as an epidemic.

We also had a serious Temazepam problem befor the caps were withdrawn.

I can think of 5 local Darwin people with recent amputations: half a foot, a hand, 2 fingers, 3 fingers, and a fore-arm. These are people known to me, without even thinking of those I've heard of.

As a peer-educator and a human being I feel helpless.

I talk a lot to Xanax injectors, they all know the risk, some say they just can't stop, some say they don't care, some believe they're invincible.

Once, just once, a young man was going to inject Xanax and came to the Underground NSP to collect equipment. I took a chance and asked him to try taking it sub-lingually (under his tongue) just this once, as this way it bypasses your liver and is the effect is quick, and I knew he wasn't an idiot and did he really want black fingers - or none?

He looked at me, said, "Fuck it Fi, you're right!" and threw it in his mouth before he could change his mind.

He no longer injects Xanax.

But then, there's this girl who gets seriously messed up using Xanax, has just seperated from her partner (because of her Xanax use), father of her 6 mth baby, who she's rightly scared she'll lose to welfare if she doesn't get her act together.

Her best friend has black fingers and is scheduled for an amputation.

We talk, she cries, she says she's not going to do it again, she knows what it's doing and then she does it again.

I saw a slight improvement last chat, yesterday, but I'm so scared for her.

Her story is far more common than the one person who changed.

Poverty and greedy morphine dealers ($80 for 100mg MsContin since the Xmas drought) and a shortage of pot due to some serious busts is pusher more people onto benzos.

Last week I was talking to reps from other Australian states and asked if they too had the problem we in the NT we having with Xanax and everyone said yes.

No, there is no way to safely inject Xanax. And as I said, so far, telling people that alprazolam is going to do damage doesn't work.

I would be greatful for any hints on how to make some difference with this dangerous trend.

So it seems clear that for some people, actually helping them inject Xanax more safely is really going to help them. Jasoncrest suggets that an EtOH/PEG mix will do the trick of dissolving the alprazolam - presumably a pass through a micron filter would then remove any particulates left in the mix. I'm interested to know what other tablet excipients would end up dissolving in the EtOH/PEG, and how dangerous it would be to inject them.

Jamshyd
26-03-2007, 18:29
This is so sad to read first thing in the morning :(

Micron filters are a must - I don't know about Australia, but I know that very few exchange programs in North America have those... Also, I have reason to believe that PEG should be enough, no Alcohol needed, but I could be wrong...

slopoke
26-03-2007, 19:08
Sorry to hijack but the OP has an answer for his question.

Does anyone know the solubility details for phenazepam, the russian developed benzo? I'm having trouble finding much info in english.

Thanks

DMont
30-03-2007, 12:59
sorry, but what's a micon filter and where do i get one?

marione
23-10-2009, 01:25
It is possible to dissolve a benzo pill using another liquid benzo mixture like valium,xanax or rivotril ?

ayjay
26-10-2009, 04:49
^hey possibly - but you would still need to filter out all the non-soluble pill components (talc etc) if you were planning to inject it. You would need a micron filter for that.

PVMD
19-12-2009, 23:03
Does anyone have any info of benzo solubility in DMSO?

tocris.com (http://www.tocris.com/) is a great information resource, but not perfectly complete.


Thanks

PVMD
19-12-2009, 23:14
Sorry to hijack but the OP has an answer for his question.

Does anyone know the solubility details for phenazepam, the russian developed benzo? I'm having trouble finding much info in english.

Thanks

"
Solubility: Not dissolve in water and ether, slightly soluble in 95% in ethanol
soluble in chloroform.
Clarity: 0.1g sample dissolved in 5ml chloroform, the clear and transparent.
Color solution: 0.1g sample dissolved in 5ml chloroform, the colorless
"

I have inquired about more extensive data and I will get back to you as soon as/if I get any wiser.


Be well.


update----
The only info I got was what I already knew (in this post already)

/navarone/
19-12-2009, 23:35
In my year of psychological breakdown and benzo addiction I used to IV the oral drops of Rivotril (Clonazepam) mostly for the rush and the potency (plus IVing started to fascinate me).
I knew it wasn't reccoemended..but back then i couldn't care less.

The solution contained propylene glycol, sodic saccharin, peach aroma (a very strong minty peach aroma that, incredibly, I could 'taste' even when IVing), glacial acetic acid and water.

How bad could that have been for me?

dread
20-12-2009, 13:59
peach aroma (a very strong minty peach aroma that, incredibly, I could 'taste' even when IVing

It's not incredible at all, IV:ing anything that has a strong taste gives a strong taste sensation. For example, IV:ing suboxone gives you a taste of lemon, probably because of the citric acid and flavouring in it.


How bad could that have been for me?

Probably not very, if you haven't noticed any long lasting symptoms. Although it's not recommended to inject oral solutions, it may still in some cases be healthier than injecting street drugs.

I myself have long ago injected diazepam oral drops, which were ethanol based IIRC... No harm done. Although I have to say, diazepam is worthless as an IV drug, you feel the alcohol more than you feel the diazepam...

PVMD
25-12-2009, 03:32
It's not incredible at all, IV:ing anything that has a strong taste gives a strong taste sensation. For example, IV:ing suboxone gives you a taste of lemon, probably because of the citric acid and flavouring in it.



Probably not very, if you haven't noticed any long lasting symptoms. Although it's not recommended to inject oral solutions, it may still in some cases be healthier than injecting street drugs.

I myself have long ago injected diazepam oral drops, which were ethanol based IIRC... No harm done. Although I have to say, diazepam is worthless as an IV drug, you feel the alcohol more than you feel the diazepam...

Most likely a suspension and not a solution, right? But on the other hand I don't think the pharm company uses lighters and cotton balls either so shoot away!

edit---
btw I'm about to try sublingual clonazepam+lorazepam dissolved in DMSO. Speaking of which; I'm surprised I haven't heard more about DMSO here. It's a great solvent for lots of stuff, and low toxicity. Unless you're into ocular injections...

jspun
25-12-2009, 08:18
It is possible to dissolve a benzo pill using another liquid benzo mixture like valium,xanax or rivotril ? Thats a good question and I reckon that would depend on whether or not the solution is saturated. IV Ativan comes disolved in propylene glycol (has an interesting sickly sweet taste). Anyway, seems easy on the veins. I be careful with some of the other solutions- some of these may act as vesicants and cause phlebitis which is horrible and very painful- red streaks going up arm tracing vein is a classic symptom- also one needs to think about balancing pH- very important for preventing phlebitis/ extravation/ overall irritation. The drug phenergan is a classic culprit- small dose did this too me (had patent IV with good blood return). Last drug I did after dilaudid, MSO4, ativan. Passed out woke up with arm throbing. Thought I had developed compartmental syndrome. Horrible pain lasted for weeks. I was lucky- people have been known to loose limbs this way. IV ativan pharm preparation dosen't require a filter before use in hospital. IV valium I heard burns- but that has gone into disuse- last heard of this used like 5-6 years ago. I would strongly advise against trying to IV PO ativan/clonopin preparations. The risks far outweigh whatever benefits you might get from the meager high- and sublingual route works so well with eather drug.

MagickalKat777
30-08-2010, 11:52
Sorry to revive a dead thread but I'm curious about clonazepam's solubility in DMSO as well. I found a PDF from a DMSO manufacturer that shows that 9g/mL of lorazepam will go into solution and I am curious about clonazepam.

My reasoning for this question has nothing to do with injecting. I have been on benzos for years... since 2004... I managed to cut a 5-8mg a day habit of Xanax down to just 2mg of Klonopin but now I want off the Klonopin entirely. I've heard that liquid titration is the best way to do this but I don't trust the "blend the fuck out of it and quickly toss the excess dose" method of liquid titration. Switching to Valium is not an option (I have benzo rage from Klonopin which is MUCH less likely to induce that than Valium) and I'm very sensitive to cuts. I tried cutting .25mg and had to go up to 2.75mg 36 hours later because it was too fast of a cut.

My doctor won't write me a compounding pharmacy prescription either so that's not an option.

Does anyone have solubility data for clonazepam in DMSO? DMSO is very cheap and easily found - I would just have to make sure not to get it on my skin as I'm not quite sure what would happen if clonazepam got sucked in through my skin :O

PVMD
30-08-2010, 14:04
Sorry to revive a dead thread but I'm curious about clonazepam's solubility in DMSO as well. I found a PDF from a DMSO manufacturer that shows that 9g/mL of lorazepam will go into solution and I am curious about clonazepam.

My reasoning for this question has nothing to do with injecting. I have been on benzos for years... since 2004... I managed to cut a 5-8mg a day habit of Xanax down to just 2mg of Klonopin but now I want off the Klonopin entirely. I've heard that liquid titration is the best way to do this but I don't trust the "blend the fuck out of it and quickly toss the excess dose" method of liquid titration. Switching to Valium is not an option (I have benzo rage from Klonopin which is MUCH less likely to induce that than Valium) and I'm very sensitive to cuts. I tried cutting .25mg and had to go up to 2.75mg 36 hours later because it was too fast of a cut.

My doctor won't write me a compounding pharmacy prescription either so that's not an option.

Does anyone have solubility data for clonazepam in DMSO? DMSO is very cheap and easily found - I would just have to make sure not to get it on my skin as I'm not quite sure what would happen if clonazepam got sucked in through my skin :O

I would like to know the solubility of clonazepam in DMSO.

Have not been able to find out though.

A few thoughts anyway:

The solubility in DMSO should be decent.

Acetone might be a viable alternative for extraction. Someone cited 31mg/ml in acetone, at RT. Sigma-Aldrich rounded the number to 20mg/ml.

3g/ml is a conservative estimate of the solubility of clonazepam in water (39.7g/ml is the upper bond by the same logic).

In practice it probably largely depends on how much of a hassle you're willing to go through for this.

A PEG like PEG 400 or PEG 800 would probably raise the solubility quite a bit.

If you find a simple answer - let me know!

MagickalKat777
31-08-2010, 21:35
I guess I'll just grab some and try it out... couldn't be any worse than doing a water titration...

PVMD
31-08-2010, 23:22
I guess I'll just grab some and try it out... couldn't be any worse than doing a water titration...

Roche makes 2.5mg/ml sol. that gives 0.1mg/drop. Any way to get that? Or try quarters of 0.5mg pills?

From what I can tell the only solvent they use besides water is propylene glycol, I believe the solution is a bit acidic too.

MagickalKat777
31-08-2010, 23:46
I had a feeling that propylene glycol would be the answer to solubility... Miralax here I come LOL.

I don't know if they have that in the US - nor do I know if my doctor will prescribe it to me (though he has no problem giving me 4 pills a day - go figure)

ziddy
01-09-2010, 06:49
http://www.tevausa.com/default.aspx?brandName=Klonopin%C2%AE%20Wafers&pageId=76

Klonopin wafers...all the way down to 0.125mg. I think that should be good enough for your purposes.

MagickalKat777
01-09-2010, 07:24
Yeah I'm aware of those but my pharmacy doesn't carry them. They would have to special order them and they're not covered by my insurance either.

PVMD
01-09-2010, 11:11
Yeah I'm aware of those but my pharmacy doesn't carry them. They would have to special order them and they're not covered by my insurance either.

Wafers are obviously a good idea, since they are easier to split as well... But money...

I would be surprised if oral sol clonazepam wasn't available in the US. Might be insurance trouble there too though... Drops are meant mainly for children, and the price per weight unit clonazepam is about double that of 0.5mg pills (in my area).

Anyway, you've tried 0.25mg, and that was to big a step. 0.125mg shouldn't be hard to acquire (quarter of 0.5mg pill).

Maybe if you combine it with spreading out the dosage more? I'm guessing you dose 3-4 times a day? 3 quarters of a 0.5, five times a day makes 1.875mg.

Or maybe just trying to switch (in part/completely) to a benzo with longer half-life (not necessarily diazepam). Then taper clonazepam, and then taper the other benzo.

Just brainstorming a little here, hope it gives someone something.

MagickalKat777
01-09-2010, 11:24
I take 1mg twice a day... And I have no problem with the Klonopin half life... I don't really know what other benzo options I have since Klonopin induces benzo rage sometimes in me and Valium is better known for that... I obviously have easy access to phenazepam but that's only a 60 hour half life.

I wish my doctor would just write me a damn compounding script! :<

PVMD
01-09-2010, 12:48
I take 1mg twice a day... And I have no problem with the Klonopin half life... I don't really know what other benzo options I have since Klonopin induces benzo rage sometimes in me and Valium is better known for that... I obviously have easy access to phenazepam but that's only a 60 hour half life.

I wish my doctor would just write me a damn compounding script! :<

I was just thinking that the more stable levels you maintain, the smaller the risk of withdrawal symptoms.

I'd say two dosages a day is a little on the low side. If I were you I'd definitely dose more frequently before trying to taper. At least three times a day.

Phenazepam typically has a longer half-life than clonazepam.

I suppose phenazepam would make titration and tapering easier, so if phenazepam works for you, I'd recommend that.

I think splitting your 2mg in four doses would be a good start in any case.

Remember; the relationship between half-life and duration of action isn't the same as the relationship between half-life and withdrawal experiences.

PVMD
01-09-2010, 12:54
I wish my doctor would just write me a damn compounding script! :<

Why wont s/he? Couldn't that too bring insurance trouble btw? Or maybe you're willing to pay for that handy solution.

If you don't mind the trouble you could grind down some pills and weigh out your dosage in powder. I'm assuming you have a decent scale since you mentioned phenazepam.

mrbigggie
10-10-2010, 15:40
ok can sum1 help i am most of the time just an oxy shooter but about 20 min i took 3 2mg klopin and just mixed them with one sirnge full of water heated it a little the mixture was a little thick but i shot it anyways i did get a pretty good rush form it but im not floored or anything i just i dint know till i came here about the solubility factor of this process so i just want to know if i will be ok heath wise anybody have any input please respond ill be checkin and i know it was stupid to do this with out knowing what i was doing so no need for rude remarks just help me out plz ps i feel good and fine hearts beating kinda funny tho

PVMD
10-10-2010, 16:57
ok can sum1 help i am most of the time just an oxy shooter but about 20 min i took 3 2mg klopin and just mixed them with one sirnge full of water heated it a little the mixture was a little thick but i shot it anyways i did get a pretty good rush form it but im not floored or anything i just i dint know till i came here about the solubility factor of this process so i just want to know if i will be ok heath wise anybody have any input please respond ill be checkin and i know it was stupid to do this with out knowing what i was doing so no need for rude remarks just help me out plz ps i feel good and fine hearts beating kinda funny tho

Hello,

It's really hard to say what will happen. It ranges from being lethal to you not being able to notice any effects once the drug has worn off.

If you don't feel comfortable seeking medical attention, then at least consult a physician.

If you were to get to a hospital now there are treatments that can make your prognosis better, it's not "too late" or anything like that.


And remember; Bluelight is here because information saves lives.

Take care

Captain.Heroin
11-10-2010, 15:55
sorry, but what's a micon filter and where do i get one?

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=481622

That should answer all of your questions.

daytryptr
27-11-2012, 12:33
So whats the consesus on alprzolam's solubuluty in PG (prop glycol)>

Ive done it up to 4-5mg with phenazepam in the same sitiuation, and was able to do aout the same with etiz powder?

Edit- I toook 50mg alprazolam, and it dissolved in 12.5 ml of PG for anyone who is wondering.