Opioids The Ultimate Opiate Potentiation Thread

WARNING!

I took 30 ultram's with about 4 tsp DXM cough syrup, 75mg benadryl, and 2 small cans of grapefruit juice. A few hours later I had a GRAND MAUL SEIZURE lasting 2 minutes busting open my head in the process.

This is the first seizure I have ever had, and hopefully the last. I do lots of narcs, so the seizure was likely due to the additive effects of the potentiating drugs. BE CAREFUL!

Seizure Issue

The reason you had a seizure was the 30 Ultrams. Anything more than 400mg's and you risk a seizure. Nothing potentiated shit in your case buddy, except for WAY too much Tramadol. If you were joking I apologize for the harsh treatment. In the interest of Harm reduction I felt this needed to be pointed out. Good luck, and did you get anything good from the ER doc for pain.....

........ Besides more tramadol?

Ok, as far as the Tagemet goes, does that potentiate the drug (say hydromorphone) no matter how you take it by slowing metabolism once in the bloodstream? Or is it one of those things that works in the stomach itself so it wouldn't be effective if you are railing, plugging or banging the shit?

Metabolism

Most metabolism occurs in the liver, so unless the drug is reaching your liver you are wasting time. That includes the bloodstream if its directly introduced in an IV or IM, and to some extent the nose since it does absorb some things into the blood stream to a large extent.

You cannot potentiate things that never reach the area you are trying to affect, IE the liver. Sure it may end UP in the liver, but thats after its been used and had a chance to leave, not before.

Really there are no "enzyme inhibitors"

Your just talking about a drug that happens to be metabolised by that enzyme., reducing its amount available to metabolise drugs taken afterward.

So taking 2 drugs together that are metabolised by the same enzyme, whichever one you take last is stronger.

WSB15 said:

So really the only ones I use now are hydroxyzine w/ methadone or benadryl with other opiates. nodtastic.

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Yes Antihistamines are the best with Opiates (and Benzos!).
After years of drugs and medications, my favorite drugs are benzos and opiates, but I ALWAYS take an antihistamine (diphenhydramine is my favorite, promethazine is close) with them.

And an Opiate+a water-soluble benzo+an antihistamine, all taken intravenously in one single shot is the best ever; I already said that in many posts.

^
i thought you only did that with bupe to make it like a normal opiate

you do this with morphine and heroin too?

and is it really better than a bigger amount of said opiate?

i see potentiation as a necessity for economic reasons more kinda , maybe not benzos they really add to the fun but when i dont have a tolerance i dont mess with them.

BingeBoy said:

you do this with morphine and heroin too?

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I'm on Methadone, which I can't shoot. So daily, I take my Methadone orally, and prepare shots of benzo (Loprazolam) + antihistamine (diphen. or promethazine) to potentiate the Methadone and get me high.
(actually, I don't feel my Methadone anymore, I only feel it when I take huge doses to get high on it alone, like 200mg+; I only feel it when I shoot a benzo+antihistamine preparation with it)

However I often (approx. once every 2 weeks) get Morphine. Then I only take a very small dose (~20mg) of Methadone in the morning, and I prepare shots of 100mg Morphine + 2mg Loprazolam + 25mg Promethazine (I prefer Diphenhydramine, but¨Promethazine is cheaper).
When I shoot this combo, it feels like the best high ever...

When I go to score Heroin, it's in a place very close to another place where I can always score Coke.
So I often buy Heroin and Coke; and then, I don't care about antihistamines or benzos, I only want to go back home to shoot a Speedball, which is my 2nd favorite high. (the high is better, but Opiate-Morphine+Benzo+Antihistamine IV is my n°1 because it's much cheaper and much more easily available).

BingeBoy said:

and is it really better than a bigger of said opiate?

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Yes by far!!
I think that a benzo+antihistamine shot is almost as good as a Morphine shot.
The combination of these 3 substances taken in 1 shot is much much better than any Opioid alone..By far...

Someone needs to test out some of these to find out which work best. I bought a box of Tagamet and used and used it with hydrocodone and diazepam and didn't notice any noticable potentiation.

Is using this and other enzyme inhibitors bad for your liver? It sounds like it is if it has to produce so much more then usual to process the shit.

^
with you mean you took it an hour before in a large dose (200-400 mg)?

p.s gfj and tagamet hardly potentiate but really affect duration in a big way

BingeBoy said:

^
with you mean you took it an hour before in a large dose (200-400 mg)?

p.s gfj and tagamet hardly potentiate but really affect duration in a big way

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I took 3-4 each time, no idea how many mg the tabs were, whatever the standard ones are I guess. I usually took it a little while beforehand.

Doubt I'd notice the duration of diazpeam being affected since it lasts forever on it's own.

Gaz_hmmmm said:

I think Cimetedine (Tagemet) works the same way as grapefruit juice, but it's stronger. So if you have both just take the cimetedine, don't bother wasting them by taking them togethe

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no, GFJ blocks primarily the cyp-3a4 pathway while tagmet blocks the 2d6 pathway. cyp-2d6 is responsible for the conversion of codeine to morphine, so taking tagamet would theoretically reduce the effect

i never take codeine or drink poppy tea without some GFJ.. as redeemer said it feels like a waste otherwise. GFJ causes more than an extension in duration of effects; it seems to intensify them, at least for codeine and pod tea (which contains codeine obviously).

I can't wait to get some more diazepam. Supposively it increases the effects of methadone. Different then all other benzos in that respect. I believe the mechanism of action is largely unknown.

And yeah, vistaril and promethazine are two awesome fucking potentiators, but they are both prescription only in the US, so poo poo.

Has anyone tried gluthethimide to increase the amount of codeine metabolized to morphine? There's a mentioning about gluthethimide in Erowid's Codeine Vault.

*GLUTHETHIMIDE
A combination of codeine and gluthethimide (a sleeping agent) has been used in some places as a heroin substitute. Gluthethimide is an enzyme-inducer, and it allows the body to convert more than 10% of codeine into morphine. Note that this combination increases the addiction potential of codeine.]

EDIT: Oops, I wrote gluthamate when I was supposed to write gluthethimide.

Okay important question... How much darvon should i take (mg) and how much of a decrease will be noted? (1/3, 1/4, 1/2, etc?)

Oh and I just tried smoking pot with opium the other day... OMG... I cant really remember much of it (like when your on benzos.. the thought is there but with time it fades quickly) it was so euphoric to say the LEAST

Some meds i always like to have handy for potentiation of opioids are: Atarax, Soma, Valium, and promethazine. Those are the main ones i like that have the most noticable effect.

I dont know why no one really mentioned soma because i do in fact think its almost like taking MORE of the opioid, it gives such a nice lift to the opioid, a great little drug for potentiation.

I also think valium goes especially well with methadone, and about 50 MG of Atarax along with it, its a veryyy pleasent high, very noddy.

One of my favorite combos is taking 700 MG Soma, 50 MG of hydrocodone 10/325 and waiting about 30 min, then dose a shot of 4 mg dilaudid....


But yeah for the most part, i really like to have Carisoprodol, benzos (diazepam preferably), and a sedative anti histamine to go with my opioids. Mainly just exactly what others have said in this thread...

DexterMeth said:

So diacetyl: upon reading your very informative post, it seems like trying anything via the NMDA route would prove to be quite insufficient. Am I right? Afterall, the point is to be higher on opiates, not to be blasted in another dimension by a dissasotiative.


That's exactly what I was thinking...then I read the post below. So now I gotta aquire a boat load of this somehow. Why can't it just be OTC dammit! I'm going to have to at least try this out with my methadone. I wouldn't need to use it all the time, so I wouldn't have to worry about tolerance to it. If there is a possibility that methadone will be potentiated by up to 50%...well shit, I'm game!

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The best substance to try via the NMDA route is Ketamine -- you don't need nearly as much mg for mg and it won't eclipse the opioid with a dissociative high. However, Ketamine is much more difficult to obtain than DXM, which, in the doses required, would definitely exhibit 1st-2nd plateau dissociative effects.

Proglumide is a frustrating beast indeed. With an account with a chemical supplier, it's perfectly legal to order and own, and CHEAP in bulk. If only I had access to one!

Proglumide, could be OTC if anyone felt like selling it. Someone should clue in a headshop or two...

DexterMeth said:

Again though, anything about methadone POTENTIATION?

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Methadone is certainly an oddball opioid, about as odd as fentanyl, but in different ways. However, it behaves very similarly to the thebaine-derived opioids; oxycodone, hydrocodone, oxymorphone, hydromorphone, etc. Therefore, in my lengthy post on page 3, you should find methods to potentiate your methadone, as well as block/attenuate tolerance, if you can get your hands on certain things.

I once ran an experiment on myself using the naloxone in suboxone (as well as the buprenorphine, since it's a potent delta antagonist) to attempt ULD antagonist tolerance attenuation. The "study" lasted two weeks, and I went from using 5-6 bags/shot to 2-3. The results were very promising.

However, I am SO suspicious of placebo that I wasn't entirely sold. In addition, what little naloxone/buprenorphine I did get onto my brain was preventing agonization via morphine, so that bothered me too.

Since then, I've managed my tolerance successfully enough not to really want to try again. I'd really like to go the proglumide route. I wish I could find a resource with a chemical account that was intelligent enough to note that it is neither a controlled substance nor illegal in any quantity. Perhaps someday.

Good luck; be safe.

AdOgG0911 said:

Ok, as far as the Tagemet goes, does that potentiate the drug (say hydromorphone) no matter how you take it by slowing metabolism once in the bloodstream? Or is it one of those things that works in the stomach itself so it wouldn't be effective if you are railing, plugging or banging the shit?

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Cimetadine/Grapefruit juice/CYP liver enzyme inhibitors prevent both first-pass metabolism via the liver (oral ingestion) as well as metabolism through the bloodstream via the liver (any other ingestion).

Be safe.

Metatron's Cube said:

WARNING!

I took 30 ultram's with about 4 tsp DXM cough syrup, 75mg benadryl, and 2 small cans of grapefruit juice. A few hours later I had a GRAND MAUL SEIZURE ...

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Doubtful. Ultram/Tramadol is a kind of bastard child/frankenstein result of people dicking around with mixed agonist/antagonist/partial agonist opioids long before they really knew what they were doing. 30 of them could certainly cause a grand mal seizure in someone with the proper biochemistry -- let's all try not to forget that opioids ARE convulsants; I myself had a petit mal seizure when I started a course of wellbutrin and relapsed.

I don't know Tramadol's activity at the delta receptor, but if it's an antagonist there, you don't really need to worry about potentiating it; it won't form tolerance anyway. Actually, I think it's only a partial antagonist, which is why tolerance forms to Tramadol, but slowly. However, I'm not entirely sure.

I wouldn't blame the potentiators in this case, I'd blame the Tramadol. However, mixing benzos and opioids is never a good idea.

As I said in my lengthy post on page 3, taking benzos with opioids is not potentiation, it's synergism due to their combined depressant effects. You feel 'higher' with benzos and opioids for the same reason that you feel 'higher' with alcohol and benzos, or cocaine and amphetamines, etc.

When you take two separate classes of drugs at the same time that act on the same nervous system -- parasympathetic nervous system or sympathetic nervous system -- you will feel the effects exponentially rather than linearly. That is, 5mg oxycodone and 1mg clonazepam together will result in more depression than the net depression resulting from 5mg oxycodone taken a day before 1mg clonazepam.

Be careful. Potentiation and synergism are very different, and 90% of overdoses involve synergistic drugs (opioids and alcohol, benzos and alcohol, opioids and benzos, etc.).

Good luck; be safe.

Potentiation vs. syngergism -- careful

All,

Many of you are talking about a better 'high' caused by taking other classes of drugs along with your opioid. While it's entirely certain that you feel different/'better' by doing so, you are not potentiating your opioid. You are taking two classes of drugs that act on the same nervous system -- sympathetic vs. parasympathetic -- and as a result, the effects of the substances are felt a great deal more than they would if you would take any of these substances alone.

This approach is certainly no less valid than potentiating an opioid, but it is an entirely different phenomenon.

There are notable exceptions; as someone mentioned above, diazepam does potentiate methadone in an unknown fashion -- however, the synergistic effect is also present, and will most likely be felt more than any potentiation that does occur.

Potentiation (to me) is more interesting than synergism because it has the potential to block or reduce tolerance. Reduction in tolerance is a holy grail to me, since it is the key to spending less money, enduring less agonizing withdrawals, and potentially developing a much healthier use schedule.

I posted a lengthy discussion on page 3 of this thread RE: potentiation.

The reason I wanted to make this distinction is that people who choose to take advantage of synergism by combining benzos and opioids (and antihistamines, and whatever else) must do so with a very precise knowledge of their body's tolerance towards all of the substances on the menu, and their body's reaction to the combination of those substances, which can be surprisingly more intense when they are combined than when they are separate.

As I mentioned, 90% of all fatal overdoses (not only opioids, but alcohol, cocaine, and most controlled substances) are polydrug overdoses, meaning they happened when the user was using more than one class of drugs. Be careful when combining classes of drugs that affect the same nervous system. Just because you know you can handle n mg of morphine at once, and you know you can handle m mg of xanax at once, does NOT mean that you can handle the same doses of those two substances when taken at the same time. Maybe you can, maybe you'll fall out.

Start small and work your way up whenever you're attempting a new combination of substances, or for that matter, a new substance. You can always do more, but once you've swallowed/snorted/injected/plugged/etc., you can never do less.

Be safe.