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Hewhomustnotbenamed
14-04-2006, 23:35
I was wondering...

I was contemplating buying dried san pedro flesh from a recently discovered source. However, this source sells their cacti by dry weight, and the majority of dosage info I've found has measured doses in length (i.e. 12 inches of san pedro was consumed...). Since I haven't a clue how length and dry weight correlate, I'm a bit scuppered.

The few sources I have found that have referred to doses in dried weight have varied enormously, from 15g to 100g for a "moderate trip". This has served to add to my confusion. I'm thinking that somewhere in the range of 25g would be an appropriate first time dose, But I would like some other opinions.

Also, can anyone give an estimate of the average amount of mescaline in a gram of San pedro, as well as recommendations on the best way to prepare the dried flesh.

Thanks in advance

Vastness
15-04-2006, 00:04
Based on very unscientific and messy reasoning based on reported mescaline contents, trip reports, and my own single experience, I'd guess Peruvianus to have about 1% mescaline per dry weight, on average, and San Pedro about 0.7%.

So in a gram, there'd be around 7mg of mescaline. 43g dried would probably be a good first dose. I'd say it's better to overshoot than undershoot, in any case, especially since mescaline seems to be a fairly physically safe chemical, but you might disagree.

Probably the best way to prepare the dried flesh would be some sort of lengthy boiling extraction process, but if you'd rather not bother with a drawn out preparation, or would need to prepare it covertly, you could buy a capsule filling machine and just be prepared to eat a ridiculous amount of gelcaps. This is what I plan to do next time, anyway, with Peruvianus (which would probably be better, if you can get it, since you'll have to eat less cactus).

chemicalwasteland
15-04-2006, 00:17
id say anywhere from 40-60gs

Hewhomustnotbenamed
15-04-2006, 00:21
43 grams, eh. Are you sure. Based on my intuition, and what I'd like to believe, that seems a bit high. But then again, I know next to nothing about this. Anyhow, thanks for the reply. However much I end up taking, I'll probably go for the Tea method.

Also, it seems as though I'm going to have a choice between tripping with San pedro and Hawaiian baby woodrose. Which of the two would you reccomed. I'm looking for a gentle trip, nothing to demanding. Also, suggestions for prep. for HBWR, though I suppose I could just find that on Erowid or some such.

Vastness
15-04-2006, 01:31
Well, I'm basing the 43g figure on my guesstimate and the erowid mescaline dosage table (http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mescaline/mescaline_dose.shtml), which would put you at 300mg, on the border between a strong trip and a "common" one. I would think this would give you a good introduction to the feel of the drug, while allowing for some variation in potency. But of course, the mescaline content of cacti varies widely so there's no way of being sure how potent your San Pedro actually is.

Mescaline seems to be a fairly relaxed trip, though (something supported by my threshold/light experience), so I doubt that even quite a high dose would be hard to handle. If my experience with morning glory is anything to go by, HBWR could be a lot more intense, so definitely go with San Pedro if you're looking for something gentle.

But nonetheless, suggestions for HBWR preparation: Grind to a fine powder and eat. An extraction just wouldn't be the same.

treefingers49
15-04-2006, 04:51
From what I've gathered, peruvian torch dried dosages (claimed to be stronger than san pedro, claimed, not exactly proven) start at around 40g for a worthwhile trip. I was planning on doing 50-60g for my first mescaline cacti experience.

Think about it this way, would you really want to ingest a large amount of disgusting cactus and not get anything out of it? For me, I'd be much happier to have a stronger than desired trip (is there really such a thing with cacti? If so, I've never heard of one) than go through all of that work only to underdose on it. If you're worried about possibly tripping too hard, then I'd recommend working with something else.

VertexShader
15-04-2006, 05:04
Peruvian torch is active at 20 grams. 30 grams effected me for 12 hours. I don't recommend capsule method, its disgusting. Try syrup.

genaro
15-04-2006, 23:43
1kg fresh cacti is:
40g dried if you consider that fresh cacti is 96% water...
60g dried if you consider that fresh cacti is 94% water...
80g dried if you consider that fresh cactii is 92% water...
100g dried if you consider that fresh cacti is 90% water...

Usually fresh Trichocereus is thought to be be 94% water, so 1kg fresh (heavy dose) should be 60g dried.


Anyway...
let's assume that DRIED san pedro/peruvian torch range from 0.3 to 2.3% mescaline, but the "average" cactus is most probably closer to the lower of these numbers (0.3 - 0.33 % ).

Now, here are oral mescaline dosages:
Threshold 100 mg
Light 100 - 200 mg
Common 200 - 300 mg
Strong 300 - 500 mg
Heavy 500 - 700 mg

So
40g dried cactii is 800 mg mescaline if content is 2% which is highly unlikely
40g dried cactii is 132mg mescaline if content is 0.33% which is much more probable
so there's probably little risk for a badtrip starting with 40g
80g dried cactii is 264mg mescaline if content is 0.33%
150g dried cactii is 495mg mescaline if content is 0.33%
200g dried cactii is 660mg mescaline if content is 0.33%

So I think one should acquire at least 500g dried cacti in order to be able to experiment with different dosages until he finds out what is a "strong dose".
Try 30-40g at first (just to ensure your cactus isn't 2% mescaline)...if there was some moderate effect then try 60g, but if 30-40g only gave you very weak effects (which is quite probable if your cactus is around 0.33% ) then try 80g....if still not enough for strong & very visual effects then try 120g (or even 150g if 80 was really weak)...and 200g would be the maximum dose to achieve heavy effects out of a 0.33% mescaline dried cacti...
This is the way I would work my doses up as I think double dosing isn't much physically dangerous with cacti as long as one thinks he's able to make the difference between weak/moderate/strong and heavy effects.

..but let's guess that 100g dried would be a really strong dose with any reasonably potent cacti which would be around 0.66% mescaline.

Xorkoth
16-04-2006, 02:11
I've eaten dried cactus chips, perhaps from the same source you have, twice. Now, I'm not saying you should do this, but the time I really had a good experience, I ingested 3-4 grams of syrian rue, and then an hour later ingested 14 grams of powdered peruvian torch chips in gelcaps. The trip never got too strong but it was very therapeutic and enjoyable... I spent the entire day (from sunup to sundown) in the forest with a friend, feeling like I was a part of it just as much as the animals and trees. There were no visuals other than a sparkle to things, but the body energy was quite strong and pleasant.

I've also had experience with the same combination of san pedro, with 3 grams of syrian rue and 13 grams of dried pedro, and I had a weaker trip but that felt better. I think given the choice, I'd prefer a higher dose san pedro trip to a lower dose peruvian torch one... it seems more friendly and instructional. Of course this is entirely subjective.

From my findings compared to the results posted above, I'd say that using syruan rue increases the potency by almost 3 times, BUT it also seems to make the stimulation greater (which could be expected, really). So take my advice with a grain of salt and be careful. Don't try to take 33 grams dried with syrian rue to emulate a 100 gram trip! The stimulation could become dangerous.

Xorkoth
16-04-2006, 02:15
Also of note, information on Erowid suggests that peruvian torch cactus has been found to be generally a bit higher in mescaline content than san pedro by weight, but it also has the potential to contain virtually none whatsoever. On the other hand, san pedro almost always has a minimum range (perhaps .3%?), and can sometimes range to a much higher amount. If I remember correctly, san pedro specimens have been found with almost as much mescaline by weight as peyote buttons. However, this would be exceedingly rare.

Cacti appear to be immensely complex plants. There has as of yet been no surefire way to increase alkaloid content reliably.

7ca5p
01-06-2009, 00:24
Sorry for the bump,

But I just wanna know, do you eat the chips dry? or is it best to boil in water for a few hours? If boiled, do you just let it cool and drink the water?

Grinding it and putting it in capsules is out of the question, as I don't have the facilites to do it...

HighonLife
01-06-2009, 01:07
i've heard trichocereus cuzcoensis is more potent than peruvian and most other trichocereus' do you think 1 oz. (of dried flesh chips)would be a decent starting dose?

Feste
01-06-2009, 01:12
7ca5p - I've eaten the chips quite a few times, it's horrible, but kind of do able. I couldn't manage over 40g & even that took a lot of effort.

I'd vote for making the tea.

elektro303
01-06-2009, 10:51
100 grams will provide you with a good trip. i would say 200 grams though for a strong trip. this is just from my previous experience though.

jam uh weezy
01-06-2009, 13:27
Forgive my naivety, but is it dried flesh, as in the whole flesh of the cactus? Or just the dried skin/outler layers.

I think it would be important to distinguish between the two....

7ca5p
01-06-2009, 20:42
^I belive it is the outer flesh layers, as the core, skin and spines are removed before the preperation.

When making the tea, do you just smash up some dried cactus pieces into powder, then add boiling water?