PMA in Australia (Sold as MDMA)

After the recent discussion about PMA in pills, i'd like to start a discussion regarding the amount of PMA containing pills in circulation.

I was always under the assumption that PMA containing pills were very rare, yet now with the latest posts here and media converage it has become apparent that perhaps there is a substantial amount of PMA circulating?

I bought Mandelin reagent a while ago - and maybe I am doing somehitng wrong or maybe I am just lucky but i have never had any reaction that shows anything other then MDxx - maybe every now and then I get a bit of a green tinge but hardly anything to worry about - this may have fed my ignorance to the fact that PMA is still out there!

On the weekend I tested some 3 different presses, 1 in particular was a 'Blue Lady/Cappa'. After reading more info on PMA i am nowthinking that these may have contained PMA, even though the test showed up clear.....or did it? Is reagent testing clear enough to consume pills based on these results? Almost every pill I have ever tested (100 or so) has turned instantly black/deep purple - would a PMA reaction be easy to see? Afterall the end result is a deep blackish colour!

I am post info on the Blue Lady's, but to sum it up after 2 clean MDxx pills a mate had another at aroun 4 am, within 1 hour he was sweating ALLOT just sitting in a chair on a verandah - I mean like i threw a bucket of water on him about 5 secs after wiping his face/neck with a towel, also body temperature was elevated - he is a fairly experianced user and 3+ pills in a sessions is common - kust makes me wonder.

Does anyone have any solid info on the amount of pills containing PMA that may be out there? I remember seeing somewhere a summary of police raids etc and showed pills found, prints, MDxx, PMA, speed contents etc but now i've forgotten link.

Basically the recent reading i've been doing has really put me off the pills (which may be a good thing as I need a break!), i'm quite worried I must be testing wrong, or missing the reactions etc - I do not want myself, friends etc being harmed because I/we were too silly to realise the true dangers of use - and yes they do trust me to test their stuff as they aint got testers...


Thoughts? Anyone here had experiances with it? Someone have info on what to do if someone has consumed it?




PS. sorry about spelling mistakes

Easier/cheaper to make?

Hey with all the recent talk of the dangers of PMA, I just dont understand why anybodywould put them in pills. I just dont see the motive.

So what I'm asking is what are the desired effects of PMA (erowid was pretty limited)?

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With a lot of thought, I came up with what are probably the closest things to positive that PMA can ever hope to offer.

• It's classed as a psychedelic and a stimulant.
  
• It can be synthesized from easily available food grade oils and unpure hardware sourced chemicals.
  
• It has been used without tragedy - although one might say this is pure luck.
  
• It's been claimed that it hammers like no other drug (Ian Hard RIP).

Doesn't sound like much fun, I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole.


As for a PMA scene. Well, if there is I'm sure they wouldn't be that common. There was talk many years ago on this board about a group of guys who used to party with the drug. However, unless dosage is very low - minimal effects - there is always danger. Mixing it with MDMA seems to also potentiate the combination and both extreme hyperthermia and serotonin syndrome have been seen with OD victims.

There is some controversy surrounding what should be done if someone has taken the drug and displays typical symptoms of overdose. Cooling someone down too quickly can also be dangerous - from memory, it was the bath of cold water that killed a South Australian woman.

I was hoping we might have seen drplatypus make some comments on the PMA issue. He would be a good one to outline the correct procedure (if one exists) Above all, I'd say to monitor temperature and try to reduce it without causing shock, regularly check BP, heart rate and the causalty's state of consciousness/coherence, and keep the water up - but not too much. If there's ever any doubt - and there's always going to be that if PMA is thought to be involved, call an ambulance without hesitation.


If this does become more common, it's quite possible we might also see PMMA, the N-methyl analogue of PMA. Although it is said that PMMA is slightly less toxic than PMA, nevertheless, the experience with a medium dose has been reported to still produce hyperthermia and other physically uncomfortable symptoms. I may have a trip report on this somewhere if there's interest.

I am pretty sure MDMA will mask other ingredients in your pill. For example, if your pill contains MDMA and PMA, only MDMA will show up. However, then comes the question why go to the trouble of putting both these drugs in one pill?

^^Due to being able to put less MDMA in the pill and hence being easier and cheaper to make.

It's my belief that robadope is a far better test if your looking for pma

Some PMA+MDMA tablets were confiscated in South Australia last year. 153 of the same tablets were found.

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=225599

I also believe that makers are pressing tablets with trace amount of MDxx substances so that it will mask out a reaction to another chemical. This way they can make a quick buck and have the pills test up ok.

Thank god for sites like this is all i can say. The more information you know the better.

fuck in heaven

For anyone wanting to realise the extreme danger that PMA poses to the user then UTFSE for Ian Hard's story (as mentioned by Phase above). You can have the utmost respect for a drug but it can still bite you in the arse.

fuck in heaven

EDIT: I have merged the two PMA threads. Please let me know if anyone has a problem with that, it seems to make more sense to keep this discussion in a single thread.

There is still a seperate thread regarding the apparent PMA death in Newcastle

hoptis

Regarding testing kits and PMA

phase_dancer said:

Good question. Of those who regularly seek MDMA to press, there's more than a good chance that at some point they may have to resort to something else in order to get a batch out there. As MDMA becomes hard to find, it may well be supplemented with something like PMA - to give a low MDMA dose some legs and still fool the kits - as a punter once said to me. An MDA & MDMA combo is virtually impossible to discern from a PMA & MDMA combo with presently available kits.

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From this thread

I used to live in South Australia and still visit frequently.

To this day I still believe on one of my first apparent MDxx experiences was infact, PMA.

The symptoms and effects match and I experienced a migraine that I can still remember as the most painful experience to date.

I was unable to talk, walk and comprehend my general surroundings (lack of basic motor skills). There were others with me as well who were experiencing the same sorts of effects.

Tachycardia, hyperthermia, and people being a general puddle of mess.

To put it simply, we were rolling harder than anything I've experienced to date and not in any pleasant way. It was not an experience I hope to ever live through again. Had I known what I know now about PMA it would have probably added an element of panic.

There were quite a few experienced but uneducated users there who confirmed that these effects were pretty "normal". I also determined later that they'd been dosing on a particular batch of capsules for a few months now and that I'm guessing "normal" just meant that they hadn't actually got anything that resembled MDMA for quite awhile.

Even if this wasn't PMA, and perhaps just some absurd dosage of MDMA or some other derivative, the effects were not pleasant.

As p_d mentioned, the Ropadobe and Simons reagents as tests for secondary/primary amines will not conclusivley identify PMA and so the danger to invidiuals still exsists.

This is why we've (Enlighten) been pushing so hard for ion scanning technology, there is no other way presently that we can identify PMA.

I guess you could discard any pill that detered itself from being positivley MDMA but you could also be discarding a pill that contained MDA, 2-CB or DOB. Some might say that would be a waste of money, but personally I wouldn't want to run the risk of encountering a PMA.

This would mean that anything that was positive for the primary amine should be discarded. P_d can you back this up at being a reasonable method for at least screening for PMA even if it doesn't positivley identify it?

Thanks hoptis, it's always best to keep things in one place IMO

It's my belief that robadope is a far better test if your looking for pma

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mmm...I won't go into details, but I have strong reservations about the reliability of Robadope, particularly if the reagent is stored at temperatures which approach the mid-high 30's (celsius). Even if the reagent is working OK, any tiny amount of added secondary amine will indicate that both primary and secondary amines are present (using Robadope and Simons). If Marquis or Mandelin had turned a purple black due (perhaps from a non-active adulterant), then the result could well be mistakingly perceived as an MDMA/MDA combination. The user could be led into believing a tested sample contained MDA when if fact PMA was present.

I believe we may have to start employing several kits, looking for characteristic reactions with all of them. One anomaly should then be considered significant enough to discard the pill/powder etc.

When I get the time, I intend posting a more comprehensive list of some of these other reagents, and how together with current tests, may help in distinguishing PMA, particularly when it's combined with other compounds that may fool most if not all of the common tests.

It's important to realize that if people are going to be ruthless enough to put PMA in pills, they are also likely to spend time devising a way to defeat the currently used reagents.

i had a pill just like this a few days ago. it had a euro dollar as the logo and was a yellowish colour. 2 hous after taking it was feeling nothing and had a beer and a splif and then it kicked it, it was mainly strong eye movements and twitching and i sat at the back of the party the whole time. i didnt feel any mdma type effects and was wondering if this might be PMA

billbuilds said:

i had a pill just like this a few days ago. it had a euro dollar as the logo and was a yellowish colour. 2 hous after taking it was feeling nothing and had a beer and a splif and then it kicked it, it was mainly strong eye movements and twitching and i sat at the back of the party the whole time. i didnt feel any mdma type effects and was wondering if this might be PMA

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IMO it doens't sound like you had PMA. Did you feel overly hot or uncomfortable to the point of being worried about your health during that period? Did anybody else you know who had the same pill have similiar symptoms?

Often the empathongenic effects of your roll can be lost if you roll very often or perhaps if there was a combination of methamphetamine and MDMA in your pill or the pill was MDA.

The likleyhood of it being MDA isn't high though, but probably higher than it actually being PMA.

Did you check pillreports.com for posts about your pill to verify user experiences?

checked pillreports and couldent find it. it was dark when i took so i didnt really see the logo (wasent a good print) but i was told it was a ero, could be a CS bacause the euro sign is a C. i felt cold not hot and was contiunually putting on jumpers n stff

Sounds like a-typical night on MDMA to me, but test it next time see if you can see any colour change that might indicate amphetamines.

A good idea is not to buy pills in clubs.. thats a bad move in anybodys books.

Hey bill builds... where are you? im in brisbane and recently dumped 4 very similar sounding pills - Euros, dirty yellow/beige coloured... Had no real smell but the taste was pleasantly familiar. i got weak to medium MDMA like effects from them, some of my friends got strong MDMA-like effects, nobody reported particularly cold nor hot reactions to them.

Of course, with nearly every past report concerning the circulation of tablets containing PMA, there is a subsequent panic phase where users are questioning their experiences and wondering if PMA could have been responsible for any uncomfortable or weird effects.

It might be considered a bit of a pain for some older posters, those who feel they can recognise the hysteria, and believe most of these reports sound typical of a strong MDMA or MDA pill. But we oldschool Bl'ers must nevertheless continue to show tolerance, and not patronize or dismiss outright such queries as being due to paranoia or inexperience with strong pills. So far this thread has done well in this regard.

It's also very important that any suspect pills are scrutinized by multi-user experiences. I'm not suggesting anyone takes a pill to prove/ disprove a claim concerning PMA. But if that pill has already been consumed by others, then discussion should be encouraged. Better to have asked and been corrected, than to suffer in ignorance. Testing and it's limitations also need to emphasized. I've made mention that a mixture of primary and secondary amines, may indicate the possible presence of PMA.

ruski's comment is worth repeating

I guess you could discard any pill that detered itself from being positivley MDMA but you could also be discarding a pill that contained MDA, 2-CB or DOB. Some might say that would be a waste of money, but personally I wouldn't want to run the risk of encountering a PMA.

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I agree. Any unusual colours or anomalies with testing reagents should see that pill/powder discarded - at least until it can be given the all clear.

I got a euro dollar pill in sydney and it was just a speed bomb.

Pma

I don't have time to read this whole thread - maybe someone has already mentioned this.
This little piece from Alexander Shulgin suggests that PMA is becoming more common in pills because chemists are using oils other than safrole on which to base their manufacturing processes (obviously due to supply restrictions).

http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/shulgin/adsarchive/safrole.htm