news: Ecstacy dangerous "regardless of intake"

Ecstasy dangerous 'regardless of intake'
Thursday Sep 29 19:50 AEST

Ecstasy users who drop one pill on a night out are not necessarily any safer from the drug's negative effects than those who swallow several, a new study has found.

Human studies at Australian rave parties indicate the blood concentrations of ecstasy and methamphetamine are higher in some individuals than previously thought.

Some clubbers registered levels of the drug which, when mimicked in monkeys, caused permanent brain deficits, the study found.

The results of the research by the University of Adelaide were presented to Club Health 2005: Sydney, the first national conference examining nightlife health issues.



The findings - collected through interviews, blood tests and body temperature checks of clubbers - indicated users could not control the concentration of ecstasy in their system by taking less.

The university's senior lecturer in clinical and experimental pharmacology, Rod Irvine, said in one case a female who had taken one pill had blood concentrations of the drug as high as others who had taken four pills.

"Anecdotally, we know that some ecstasy users believe that using less of the drug protects them from some of the greater risks," Dr Irvine said in a statement.

"This study suggests that even persons taking one or two pills may be exposing themselves to harmful effects.

"The blood concentrations achieved by some of the clubbers were similar to those seen in monkeys who exhibit long term brain deficits after ecstasy exposure".

Conference organiser Paul Dillon said the results proved users needed more information about the dangers of the drug.

"Particular attention needs to be given to informing users of the potentially fatal outcome that could occur when even using small amounts," Mr Dillon said.

"Too many ecstasy users continue to believe that their drug of choice is relatively benign and this can lead to great problems in some cases."

Some problems experienced by ecstasy users include drowsiness, overreaction of the reflexes, feeling drunk and dizzy, muscle stress in the jaw, sweating, high body temperature, confusion and hypomania.

In extreme instances, it can cause loss of consciousness and death.

Taken from here: http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=65197

very interesting article indeed - i don't know much about the sources etc and if they are pro harm reduction or perhaps goverment financed?

They make it sound like taking one pill is just as dangerous as taking three. It's plausible that one individual will get more out of the same pill as another individual due to body mass, tolerances, fitness and other factors. That's just common sense. I think this is what they're getting at but the article minces words and seems to say something else.

What this article says to me is that different pills have different amounts of MDMA in them, so you don't know how strong your pills are therefore you may have more MDMA in your system than you want. Simple. However what is worrying is that a few people had levels in their blood that were at the level that caused permanant brain deficits in monkeys. Whether or not the results can be generalised across the species is a matter to consider, but that said, considering the jury is still out on the neurotoxcity of MDMA I suggest people (myself included, 3 pills last time which is a bit of a no no) not to get too complacent as to its safety.
Be safe guys

Any actual academic links?

I actually find this article to be quite dangerous and down right wrong.

It in some ways suggests that if your gunna take one..........you may as well take 4.


There is no discussion about how they have come to the conclusions they have...........naturally taking one pill could well be putting more or as much in your system as taking 4................. its not the number of pills its how much active ingredient is in each that counts.

This is yet another very poorly written news article.


However thats not to say that we shoul;dnt be taking an interest in the findings of this report however its impossible to read anything into it from this amateur effort.

Im hoping that one of our excellent people such as Cowboy may be able to chase up some real facts and findings of this report?

I've just checked the line-up brochure of Club Health 2005 in Sydney. Apparently our own CowboyMac was there to represent pillreports. A review maybe?

This article is quite confusing because it can be taken two ways 1) he is saying that pills contain different amounts of MDMA or 2) people metabolise MDMA at different rates which i'm presume he is refering to the differing amounts of cytochrome p450s each individual has.

I haven't got any more information about the presentation given only what i read in the above article so i'm sure he went into more detail. This is just another article that has taken a little bit of information and twisted it around.

i agree.

i'm interested in the implications of the ACTUAL research. but this is a poorly written article, that could be interpreted many ways, doesn't properly explain how the research was carried out and which i doubt very much is properly representative of the study.

sheesh..8(

well, i guess i'll just take heaps then
since the damage is done

Im fairly sure:

"The blood concentrations achieved by some of the clubbers were similar to those seen in monkeys who exhibit long term brain deficits after ecstasy exposure".

Is referring to methamphetamine and not MDMA

I'm not sure i understand why you think it is referring to meth when it clearly says ecstacy.

I want to know where this blood test were performed, in the article it says at rave parties?? sounds a little strange to me. I know i wouldn't let some stranger come up and give me a blood test at a rave.

Human studies at Australian rave parties indicate the blood concentrations of ecstasy and methamphetamine are higher in some individuals than previously thought.

Click to expand...

I think what Corbis is referrng to was a study conducted a few years ago showing how dangerous ecstacy was when in fact it was actually methamphetamines that the monkeys were being fed. EG: they fucked up the trial. Sorry no links because i cant remember where this came from but but im 99% sure its true. Feel free to back me up anyone who can remember this study.

Yes you may be right and also I wonder if those who have done these studies and are putting forward there theories are aware of that stuff up.

I really would love to hear from Cowboy or Johnboy regards these studies.

LittleHedgehog said:

i'm interested in the implications of the ACTUAL research. but this is a poorly written article, that could be interpreted many ways, doesn't properly explain how the research was carried out and which i doubt very much is properly representative of the study.

Click to expand...

I was at the conference, and the media is manipulating this a little. It is true that the higher the dose of MDMA the more neurotoxic it is in animal models. The problem with MDMA sold on the street is that dosage varies so one person taking only one pill may have a greater dose (eg 130mg) and therefore potential for greater neurotoxic damage that someone who takes 3 pills with only 30mg each (90mg). Simply put it is still safer to consume less MDMA, but it doesn't matter how many pills it is because it varies so greatly.

Thanks Cowboy..........as i suggested in my first post, its where I thought they stuffed up.

Other than that, was there anything worthwhile to come from that conference?

There were lots of fantasic presentations and I believe Paul Dillon from NDARC will be modifying the format of the conference next time. It will be a half day rather than two full days, and will be much less expensive to encourage interested parties such as those on this forum to attend.

There should be something very interesting on Channel 9 news tonight also. Not sure if it will run nationally or if it will only be run in Sydney. I'll post some more info up if its not played nationally tonight.

Cheers mate.