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Stimulants Uppers and downers (opiates + amphetamines): good and bad

diacetyldeath

Bluelighter
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
329
I've heard so many opinions and quasi-facts on this subject that I just wanted to get some legitimate information. The search engine didn't help -- more of the above.

If some people could post here that could include their source, or describe the reasoning behind their claim, I would appreciate it.

The question: How do opioids and amphetamines interact? Specifically, adderall, which is two salts of d-amphetamine and two salts of racemic amphetamine.

I've heard everything from the threat of heart failure because of conflicting "messages" from one's brain to the complete lack of a threat, "amphetamines and opioids are just as dangerous as amphetamines on their own."

I understand that they work on two different nervous systems (parasympathetic and sympathetic), and so they do not "cancel each other out." That fact seems to lend credence to a lack of interaction. However, there is this huge stigma attached to doing speedballs and everything that I imagined there could be a grain of truth underneath all the bullshit.

Specifically, I'm not asking about speedballs. I'm asking about using both opioids and amphetamines in a single day. For example, I used an opioid this morning around 7:30. I then enjoyed some adderall (10-15mg) at around 10:30AM. I've done this in the past, and it doesn't seem to introduce any undue wear and tear.

How about spaced closer together? Like, the amphetamines 1-1.5 hours after the opioid? Or alternating, e.g. opioid, 1-1.5 hours, amphetamines, 2-3 hours, opioids, 1-1.5 hours, amphetamines, etc. It doesn't seem like the best idea to me, but I want to understand why.

Any information is appreciated.
 
this past Saturday I enjoyed washing down 20mg of adderall along with 35 mg of Hydrocodone with a few vodka tonics. One of the best buzzes I've ever had. I wouldn't do it again though, mainly because of the thought of my poor liver processing all of that shit. There have been a few times where I've taken 20mg of ritalin at work, and have had 20-35 mg of hydro a few hours later when I've came home. Amphetamines alone give me a nasty headache after the onset, so that's the main reason why I usually chase them with some sort of opioid. After reading what you've taken, I think you'll be okay. I'm sorry I can't give you any more information, scientifically, to help you explain why though =\
I'm sure there will be quite a few posters that will however, but like I said, I've done it quite a bit, and have felt fine (no irreg heart beats, hypertension headaches, irreg breathing, etc...). Good luck =)
 
In the days i wasn`t too bad addicted ([ot]they seem to come back 3 weeks clean now) i used a good dose of methadone and amphetamine to go out to a big carnival party...Usually the methadon was too sedating and the amphetamine makes me too speedy. But both euphorias just added to each other, i was calm, extremely focused, talkative and on top of the world. I felt way superior to all the drunkheads i met. The comedown was non existent because the duration of methadone well overrides that of speed. I would love to try meth + methadone, too bad its so rare in germany...
 
Good stimulants and opiates are the best drug combos ever, like meth and heroin, heaven, as long as you have enough dope to last through the meth.

I know many people say mixing uppers and downers is lethal even, but actually most times they cancel out eachothers dangerous/annoying effects.

The only danger is if you don't know your tolerance to both drugs and end up taking too much of the opiate because the speed makes you feel "fine" and awake. It can go the other way too, so know your stuff, your tolerance and enjoy the most failsafe euphoric combo ever.
 
back in the day one of my favorite combos was 20mg adderal and 40mg hydro, and a good 2mg colonzapam. great high, takes away the anxiety from the speed, and the sedation from the opiates+benzos, The high meets somewere right in the middle.
 
Wow, I didn't realize this was such a popular combo to take at the same time. Thanks for all the replies. I will try to space things out so things don't get too crazy, but I should be set.

I wouldn't be taking the opioids if it weren't for necessity. :p
 
The reason you're getting headaches from the adderall is you're dehydrated. Drink only water and don't drink carbonated bevs like coke or seven up and your headache will dissipate. also, i find aleve to almost stmulate my amphetamine high sometimes. strange, but it does. it's weird. naproxen sodium that is.
 
Stimulants potentiate benzos, some Codeine 300 + 60mg Ritalin adds to it
 
davids said:
Stimulants potentiate benzos, some Codeine 300 + 60mg Ritalin adds to it

Hmm.

First of all, your example doesn't apply to your statement; Codeine is not a benzo, it's an opioid.

Second of all, there is no potentiation occurring for opioids and amphetamine-derived stimulants when taken together. They affect completely different nervous systems within the brain and body (parasympathetic vs. sympathetic), and therefore have very little effect on one another.

While it may subjectively feel as though one is cancelling the other out, it is not actually happening that way physiologically. Physiologically, you are feeling the effects of both at the same time.

What my original question was asking was more about potential interactions, if they existed, their danger zones with respect to substances, dosages, and frequencies, symptoms, risks, etc. for opioids and amphetamine-derived stimulants.

The sheer number of people who appear to have enjoyed the combination with no ill effects is reassuring to me, but I'd still like to read a detailed physiological description of what is happening in the CNS and why it is or is not dangerous in which circumstances. I know how opioids work in the brain, agonizing the opioid receptors (mu, delta, kappa) and also acting in unknown ways on seratonin, dopamine, and noradrenaline/norepinephrine. I know much less about how amphetamines work in the brain, and the detailed results of mixing the two.

Failing that, simply quoting a source as to its opinion regarding a potential dangerous interaction would also be helpful.

For example, Heroin Helper says that the only risk associated with speedballs is the same risk associated with doing the same dose of stimulant on its own. Others differ. *shrug*

Obviously for a middle aged person with some heart disease risks, it's not a great idea to eat many stimulants regardless of how they are accompanied. But I'm not middle-aged yet.

Anyway, thanks for all the responses.
 
Hmm.

First of all, your example doesn't apply to your statement; Codeine is not a benzo, it's an opioid.

Second of all, there is no potentiation occurring for opioids and amphetamine-derived stimulants when taken together. They affect completely different nervous systems within the brain and body (parasympathetic vs. sympathetic), and therefore have very little effect on one another.




My scheer apolagies, i was drunk,

Codeine is of course a Opiate, and it has been shown that stimulants CAN and do INDEED potentiate some OIpie's-hense the 'Bromptons Coctail, Cocaine+amphetamine+Brandy given to dying patients in the UK) to see them out.



"stimulants potentiate the anagelsic and antidepressant aspects of Opiates/iods."
 
diacetyldeath said:
I've heard everything from the threat of heart failure because of conflicting "messages" from one's brain to the complete lack of a threat, "amphetamines and opioids are just as dangerous as amphetamines on their own."

Folklore. I don't have the site, but one of the "major" harm reduction/safe shooting sites had a paper on amphetamine/opiate combination. There is no medical evidence for the "conflicting signals" bullshit- that's what it is- bullshit. The only real danger from amp/opiate mixing is that generally, one tends to shoot more dope while also using amps. In the case of a speedball (coke specifically), the coke wears off much quicker than the h. While the coke is active, your respiratory depression is not as pronounced. Once the coke wears off, you can end up in an o/d situation very quickly. It's happened to me. I was shooting a lot of speedballs- I hate coke but love the rush, so I'd end up shooting a lot more dope than usual to counter-act the longer coke effects. Once I ran out of coke, I'd end up way nodded from the h I shot.

cheers
doc
 
The Speedracer must be intimately aware of each substances effects, independent of the other; before engaging in the ritualistic-sport called sPeedBall.
There are many forms of speedball. In a group setting, the best form of speedball may be an all nite ralley of cocaine and black on tin foil rigs.
If you going out for a night on the town maybe a few meth bumbs and some pain pills.
My personal favorite is popping two 20 mg adderalls, waiting about five hours, then swallowing vicodin with crushed up OC bumps. Oh god i almost get a boner thinking about it.
 
yeah like groveller said, you got to be careful when shooting coke and opiates. that is kinda ironic I also hate coke but i fancy the rush!
 
I took 1.5 mgs of Klonopins, 4mgs of Seboxin, and a half of a speedy naked lady roll.....everythings fine so far. I took them about 45 minutes apart. Im not gonna drink though....that where things turn sour..lol;) DEF. A LITTLE GREEN THOUGH!!
 
Weagle said:
I took 1.5 mgs of Klonopins, 4mgs of Seboxin, and a half of a speedy naked lady roll.....everythings fine so far. I took them about 45 minutes apart. Im not gonna drink though....that where things turn sour..lol;) DEF. A LITTLE GREEN THOUGH!!

Kpins and suboxone love eachother.<3

I lovvvvvvvvvvvve an adderall - suboxone combo.

.5-1mg suboxone(intranasal), wait an hour, 30mg adderall(intranasal)+ 60-70mgs orally. Ohhhhh lawdy
 
MANY doctors prescribe people on high doses of opiates or other sedatives an amphetamine to go with it. this is actualy vary commen practice, with both opiates, and benzos. i know a shit ton of people on dexidrine/xanax, or methadone/kpin etc.
its considred vary safe. mainly the harmfulnuss of a speeball comes from a true speedball (shooting coke and heroin together) that causes Quite the strain on the heart.
i used to speedball nearl dailey (not true speedballing i just mean ups and downs like you mentioned)
 
benzodiazepines don't have synergistic effects with amphetamines. they're often perceived as very uncomfortable when taken together. opiates and amphetamines do. it's not something you want to do regularly. it's not something you should ever do, but if you're going to do it, start way below your regular dose of either and don't think that the effects will proportionately mimic an increase in dose. it's a lot like alcohol mixed with opiates in that you don't know what you're going to get with an increased dose. you may hit a threshold and spike dangerously.
 
Kpins and suboxone love eachother.<3

I lovvvvvvvvvvvve an adderall - suboxone combo.

.5-1mg suboxone(intranasal), wait an hour, 30mg adderall(intranasal)+ 60-70mgs orally. Ohhhhh lawdy


I'm trying a vyvanse (basically dexedrine) suboxone combo right now. I've been up the entire night on vyvanse taking little doses of it every now and then, like 20mg every three hours, after I knew I wasn't going to go to sleep. It's 12:35 PM, approximately 16 hours since I started the vyvanse with a total of about 160mg total (I just took my last 20mg) and I did 2mg of suboxone. I did the insufflated route. Note that I'm sorta used to suboxone. I was doing 8mg a day a few weeks ago, stopped, and then did some recently a few days in a row. When I did the buprenorphine my face got pretty warm, as did my hands. I'm not sure, but I think it is counteracting the vasoconstriction that amphetamines cause since my hands are warming up, but I may be wrong. Amphetamines always make my hands cold because of the fucking vasoconstriction. It seems to be smoothing out the edge from what I can tell now though. I still feel pretty amped out, but I don't feel the anxiety striking me like it did. I would have moments that were reminiscent to a bad trip every hour, especially in social situations. Be careful with those amphetamines people.
 
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