Hallucinogenic Opiates?

Some may say all opiates are hallucinogenic to some extent, but its never anything serious at all, unless somone here cares to enlighten me with an experience?... is there any opiates that are notably hallucinogenic whilst also still retaining classic opiate properties?

A fairy mentioned something of (-)isomer benzomorphans being possibly hallucinogenic.

I vaguely recall levometorphan having dissociative properties, but I'm not entirely sure on that.

Levomethorphan is a mu agonist with codeine like properties; I've never seen anything saying it was an NMDA antagonist or bound to the sigma receptors (then again, it's a long time since I looked). Detrorphan (DXM that's been O-demethylated) has NMDA antagonism and activity at the sigma receptors, but I don't know much more than that

The benzomorphans all seem to be mixed mu agonist/antagonist drugs with varying degrees of kappa agonism - pentazocine is just plain weird (not too pleasant) due to having a fair degree of kappa agonism. It has a fucked up logic sort of similar to salvia, but far less pleasant.

Methadone has some NMDA mild antagonism (the reason it's recommended for neuropathic pain in the BNF), but it's hardly noticable. Pethedine on the other hand is quite dream-like in it's effects - probably due to the degree of anticholinergic activity associated with it (you get something similar with diconal - a mixture of dipianone and cyclizine, which has antihistamine and anticholinergic activity).

Other than that it's the mixed mu agonist/antagonists like buprenorphine (I found buprenorphine a surreal and not too pleasant experience) and butorphanol. Nallorphine (mu antagonist) is said to have hallucinogenic activity, but I can't imagine the hallucinations from a narcotic antagonist being that pleasant either.

All in all I think the hallucinogenic effects are generally seen as being an unwanted side effect

Poppy tea. With 40 or more opiate alkaloids, to pin point which ones is the most "trippy" for me, is impossible. I just can't name them all. I bet morphine tops the list.I recall seeing "spider" looking things on my blanket one time. That kind of freaked me out.It was funny though.
Over all it's just so damn good.

Patty

I got some pretty fucked up auditory hallucinations, and a large ass amount of macropsia on 400mg dihydrocodeine, inanimate objects were talking to me and shit like that.

Funny you should post this topic though, as I was just reading of an analogue of salvinorin-A that caught my eye, and one day, as soon as I have the facilities to safely handle the chloromethyl methyl ether that is required in the synthesis, I intend to synthesize it.

This analogue, apparently has 7x the potency of salvinorin-A itself, and is also a mu-agonist, so its primarily a kappa-opiate agonist psychedelic in purpose, with secondary mu-agonist effects, rather than the other way round as is usual.

I want to find out the strength of the mu-agonism and how tightly it binds to the mu-receptors first though, before I attempt the synthesis, because something that potent as a kappa agonist, would be active at an incredibly low dosage perhaps even lower than LSD (I calculated threshold dosage from salvinorin A at 200mcg, that would give threshold dose of the analogue at 25mcg)

However, I am absolutely bleeding useless at math, so don't blame me if I am out by 100mcg or so!


F&B, I had a bit of an idea, is the O-demethylated DXM actually a mu-agonist? what about demethylation with pyridine, that might actually turn DXM into something that is more than worthless, stomach turning, projectile-bile-launching filth

If all it needed was a bit of pyridine, an properly dissociative mu-opioid agonist sounds like good times, so help a bee out, and PM us if you know anything more about it

^ No, all the dextrorotatory isomers of that series don't have any mu agonism (hence their not being controlled) DXO isn't my idea of a good drug (there's a report on Erowid)

What is your opinion on the salvinorin-a analogues ?

I am seriously considering synthesis of the mu-agonist salvinorin, although I would have to actually build the microgram sensitive scale (as per instructions in Rhodium) to begin to work with the finished compound.

there is a mu-agonist analogue of salvinorin? i thought it was all very specific to kappa, which has nothing to do with traditional opiod properties (euphoria, analgesia, etc.)

Yes, I read of it recently on entheology.org, you must register and be approved to read or post there.

I calculated the active dose, based upon 200mcg of salvinorin-a being a very low threshold dose, as the analogue is 7x as potent in the kappa agonist effect, this compound would be active at 27 mics or so, I am unsure of the opioid agonist potency though, if it is as potent as the kappa agonism, then we have an extremely potent mixed opioid agonist, like an etorphine version of butorphanol!

Whilst I remember, there is an orchid, Cypripedium Calceolus var Pubescens, the ladies' slipper, in the UK, it is extremely endangered, with I believe, two natural sites of growth known, and both are apparently actually guarded.

The orchid can however, be grown.

A bioassay posted on the shroomery, listed the root as having very strong opiate type effects, and a pretty hallucinogenic experience at 1g of the root.

I intend on growing some of these orchids, when I can, and both plant some in the wild (grow carefully from seed or buy plants), and harvest some of the roots (whilst making sure to let the plants thrive)

fascinating...thanks for the site, it's a little too much for me right now though. i haven't had as much time as i used to, to research these kinds of things so i'm a bit behind =\

Any idea on the alkaloid content/composition of those orchids? always useful, especially when the plants are endangered! though the beauty of the plants may be lost, the chemistry can live on

I have absolutely no clue, all I have to go on, is the single reported bioassay of the root.

When I get around to it, I am considering growing the orchids from seed, or aqquiring plantlets that have been nursery/lab grown, to propagate them, and of course, investigate the activity of the roots.

If or when I do get them, I can try a couple of solvent extractions to look for alkaloids, oils etc, and send a sample off to people I know, who have access to GC/MS.

^ if you don't get tempted and eat all your experimental samples first
sounds great, keep us updated

i have been fond of opiates and i have had hard times with them ,but i have never had hallucinogenic effects.
(maybe noding of and waltzing through flower fields) but i dont feel that is really "trippy" this my be stupid but if you want a heady trip on dope you have to do them together. atlest what ive decided from my experiance. in no way would i advocate this to anyone but myself.

High doses of morphine give me very vivid CEVs, and even mild OEVs. I am schizophrenic and have synaesthesia; I don't know if that plays a role.

I have had some fairly hallucinatory opiate experiences on dihydrocodeine, I once took about 600mg, with no tolerance, my first time with opiates, and I was layed out on my bed, for the next day or so, hearing phantom music playing, and with OEVs of a space-warping look, I don't think its unique to you.

^I think you mean 60mg DHC. Was that just a typo? Besides, if one has enough codeine and access to some palladium black, they can make hydrocodone instead. In other words DHC is not even worth the time of day.

Possibly not quite hallucinatory in the sense of say psychedelics or anticholinergics, but with opiates I've had very realistic dreams - some of them have turned nasty, but when I've woken up I'm still having real problems distinguishing the contents of my dreams from waking 'reality' (once to the point of waking my wife up and asking her to talk to me for 5 minutes - I was feeling on the verge of a panic attack because of the disturbing content of my dreams).

Other than that, the only sensory distortions I've experienced are ones of propioception (not quite knowing where my legs were), but than ended as soon as I opened my eyes and sat up; the other was hearing quiet music coming from outside the house only to get up, go outside and find that the only sound was coming from the wind blowing through trees - nothing very notable.

I'm not quite sure if endorphins, enkephalins etc. play a role in REM sleep, but plant based and synthetic opiates do seem to blur the boundries between 'dream logic' and being stone cold sober & awake

Limpet Chicken: Looks like there's a whole site dedicated to that plant species, they have a forum too...

http://www.cypripedium.de/

Smyth, I did indeed mean 600mg, thats why I think I got the tripped out effects.