PDA

View Full Version : The Big & Dandy Natural Psychotropics and Ethnobotanics Thread



Pages : [1] 2 3 4 5 6

genaro
02-07-2005, 20:49
Subthreads

"Lost Peyotes" and other Psychoactive or Medicinal Cacti (http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=487527)
The Ilex Genus / Holly Plants (http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=487316)
African Dream Root, Silene capensis (Ubulawu) (http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=481737)


original post:
Please could you list the best psychedelic entheogens you've personally tried (plants & cactii, not shrooms) as I'm planing to get live plants of every valuable entheogen specie just for the pleasure to grow them myself (not for consumption).

I think would get :

kratom
iboga seeds
salvia
rivea corymbosa (ololiuqui) seeds
hbwr seeds
peyote and san pedro
banisteriopsis caapi
banisteriopsis rusbayana
peganum harmala
psychotria viridis, acacia maidenii, mimosa hostilis, virola, yopo (as these are the best dmt plants around...meaning highly concentrated)
tobacco (because it's one of the oldest indian's sacred plant, even if it's not psychedelic)
calea zacatechichi (poorly psychedelic but very interesting for lucid dreaming)
datura, brugmansia aurea & suaveolens and mandragora (I just want these because these are the mysterious plants of the witches, not for consumption in anyway)

What else would be a truly psychoactive plant ? (I mean I don't want poor stuff like catnip or nutmeg which are psychoactive but absolutely not in an interesting way for mind exploration, I only want the famous one, the one which take you for a big ride!).


Here are a few plants I have suppliers for (live plants) BUT all these I think I don't need as it seems they are poorly valuable for true entheogenic use (tell me if I'm wrong about any of these):

desmanthus illinoensis, justicia pectoralis, desmodium tilaefolium, phalaris, arundo donax...( but I don't think I need any other dmt plant as I will already have the best ones, as listed above...)
acorus calamus
galanga
damiana
voacanga
kanna
tagetes lucida
cytisus canariensis (broom)
sinicuichi
coleus
kava kava
khat
lagochilus inebrians
yohimbe
leonotis leonorus (wild dagga)
passiflora incarnata (passion flower)
artemisia absinthium (wormwood)
cofee, mate, tea and guarana,ephedra sinica (these sounds of no psychedelic value)
lactuca virosa, prickly poppy, california poppy, opium poppy seeds (those plants don't sound psychedelic in any way so I don't want these)
cannabis I don't want as it's illegal to grow (even one single plant)

Any other suggestions? (from personal experience)

ingo_2001
02-07-2005, 21:17
I would def. consider khat and sinicuichi, as well as all the other psychoactive Trichocereus cacti.

Limpet Chicken
03-07-2005, 01:11
Khat, is derfinately psychoactive, having tried it myself, it had a decent amphetamine type feel to it.

Voacanga contains carbomethoxyibogaine, and voacangine, the use is poorly understood, but there may well be significant potential present.

I would grow Lagochilus Inebrians myself if I could obtain the seed or plant cuttings, I have never tried it, but it is extremely endangered, and growing it can only help ensure the survival of the species:)

There are a good few other solanaceous plants that are good to grow.

Methysticodendron Amnesiacum, also pretty damn rare, contains a LOT of alkaloids, 80-90% of which being scopolamine.

Taique, Desfontainia Spinosa, looks sort of like a small, erect bush, with very prickly, holly like leaves, and orange tubular flowers, unknown alkaloid content, my guess is probably tropanes, given the columbian name "borrachero", meaning "intoxicator", the same name as given to Methysticodendron, some Daturas and I think, to Brunfelsias, typifying solanaceous tropane-bearers.

You could grow Brunfelsia, again, tropane packed, but quite attractive plant.

Have you considered Atropa Belladonna? both the normal and white forms would make a nice sample in any entheological garden.

I am thinking of growing some iboga myself, apparently, the orange colored narrow fruits are edible, nice looking plants, apparently a little touchy to get growing at first, but easier when they grow larger, requires quite a bit of humidity.

Salvia Divinorum?

There is a possible iboga analogue-plant known as Iporuru or Niaando, Alchornea Floribunda, and a related Alchornea species, I have done a little work with the plant myself, why not consider trying to aqquire seeds or plants? (please PM me if ever you find one.)

Jatropha Grossidentata apparently contains diterpenes, and the root is smoked by Ayoreo indians to communicate with spirits, make sure you get this species though, and no other Jatropha, many are irritant and toxic, and a few, contain toxalbumens. An alternative name for the plant is Caniroja.

Cypripedium Calceolus var Pubescens, is in the UK, a very rare orchid, you could perhaps, buy seed, and grow this, as I read on the Shroomery, of one person growing this for the roots, which had a strong psychedelic-opiate type effect at 1g of the root orally, I would not condone someone hunting for this, as it IS extremely rare, but growing it might be interesting.

The alkaloid Hordenine, found cheifly in Lophophora species, (N,N-dimethyltyramine) is apparently a sympathomimetic of some sort, and is found in barley roots.

The wood of Juniperus Macropoda is apparently strongly hallucinogenic when smoked, is it also known to contain norpseudoephedrine (not sure which stereoisomers).

The plant Lycopodium Gnidiodes is apparently smokeable, with effects similar to THC intoxication, I find this quite interesting, as it would be the first known instance of a moss or fern having psychoactive properties.

Some Lycopodium species contain toxic alkaloids, so again, the species is important, with only this one being known to be suitable.

There is a species of Acacia, I forget which one, which produces methamphetamine in its rootbark, I want one of these acacias Myself, the rootbark would make for quite a potent pick-me-up tea as it is, or could be extracted, perhaps the plant would be illegal to harvest, but its not at all well known, and I VERY much doubt anyone w/o extensive knowledge of ethnobotany=D

Epithelantha Macromeris, a small button cactus produces the phenethylamine alkaloid Macromerine, reputed to be a sort of very narcotic semi-psychedelic.

Coryphantha Macromeris, another cactus producing Macromerine.

Pancreatium Trianthum, is a bulb, rubbed into deep gashes in the heads of some african tribes, causing visual hallucinations, related species are cardiotoxic.

Mescal beans (Sophora Secundiflora), are a very attractive vine, although unsuitable for use as an entheogen, they have historical value in a collection, they contain the highly toxic pyridine alkaloid cytisine.

Ephedra is an easy plant to grow, so theres no reason not to really, the seeds are dirt cheap, and grow easily.

Wormwood, I grow myself, it grows very vigorously outside, and is great smelling, good for keeping flies and bugs out of your house.

egu3
17-07-2007, 22:20
The plant Lycopodium Gnidiodes is apparently smokeable, with effects similar to THC intoxication, I find this quite interesting, as it would be the first known instance of a moss or fern having psychoactive properties.

Does anyone have extra info of this plant? Sound very interesting..

PsyGhost
17-07-2007, 23:00
Aren't iboga seeds illegal?

I'm growing khat, its gonna be a long haul, I think it takes about 3 years for it to be at any usable size. Mine is a couple months old and about 5 inches tall. Looks very healthy though!!

IGNVS
17-07-2007, 23:15
yeah i cant find any info on google about the moss.... anyone know where it grows?

egor
18-07-2007, 04:13
http://www.erowid.org/plants/plants_writings1.shtml>
there is a blurb saying the same thing in this erowid writing, probably the same writing the info came from

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=17601647&ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVDocSum>

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=15565253&ordinalpos=14&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
a bit on alkaloids found in the lycopodium sp.
here is a bit on the alkaloids from lycopodium

IGNVS
18-07-2007, 04:33
are the alkaloids in that article responsible for the thc like effects?

and how about the psychoactive orchid there?

theres pleanty of websites talking about it, and aparently its not as rare in north america. does anyone know the active ingredients in the root?

Morninggloryseed
18-07-2007, 05:00
Are iboga seeds psychoactive? It is always the rootbark that is used in traditional shamanism.

kakti
18-07-2007, 07:01
Aren't iboga seeds illegal?

I'm growing khat, its gonna be a long haul, I think it takes about 3 years for it to be at any usable size. Mine is a couple months old and about 5 inches tall. Looks very healthy though!!

Growing Iboga or Khat is illegal in many countries

swilow
18-07-2007, 07:21
Uusally with these types of plants its the consumption thats illegal I believe. Thats a nice list of enthnobotanicals though....:)

aoe2junkie
18-07-2007, 10:43
dried wormwood can be extracted with 91% iso alcohol. make sure the alcohol doesnt have scents in it. the extract is a tar and can be smoked. real good with weed.

thoughtsUnThought
18-07-2007, 12:05
damiana and kava kava have highly psychedelic effects on myself

also, ginko biloba, gotu kola and passion flower are fairly psychedelic for me

some additional traditional psychedelics are the ariocarpus cacti (fissuratus and retusus<spelled wrong probably). i remember reading that some natives reveared them as being more potent than peyote, but more sketchy because the spirits aren't as welcoming.

i would suggest buying 'plants of the gods', this book has a list of 50+ psychedelics which are not very well known of but have traditional use.

swilow
18-07-2007, 14:07
^^^I'm curious how you find damiana and kava psychedelic. Kava is slightly entheogenic, but hardly to be honest, and damiana is a very mild euphorant/relaxant to me. Gink biloba is traditionally a brain tonic and nootropic, gotu kola is a stimulant and passionflower spp. contain small amunts of harmine. and is sedating. I don't see how they could possibly be called psychedelic.

Xorkoth
18-07-2007, 17:06
I always found kava to be worthless until I was feeling a good amount of anxiety yesterday. I had a good dose, and before I knew it, I felt quite great.

As for sinicuichi, this reminds me to post my one report of it in TR. I had a horrific reaction to it that I have heard of a few others having. Look for it momentarily (as it is already written and on Erowid).

thoughtsUnThought
19-07-2007, 05:13
traditionally natives used higher doses of kava kava as a psychedelic....'to a similar effect of psilocybin or lsd' <as i read.

when i eat a quarter ounce or so of strong kava root it produces a pronounced trance. on one experience a yard of grass appeared as water, similar to mushroom waves. my psychedelic experience/common sense obviously pointed out that this was only the light traveling, but it was pretty damn intense.

damiana is almost too intense for my likings, lol (i'm serious though). when i smoke a decent sized joint of it, it seems to have a distince edge to it. almost like the 'edge' of a mushroom come-up.

both of these produce marked open eye visuals for myself, but then again so does cannabis.

i will note that my experiences with these were combined with cannabis, though i took them at different times so there is no question that the herbs had distinct effect.

ginko produces a visual clarity similar to low doses of mescaline, as well as a trance. passion flower is mostly sedative, but, possibly due to the harmine, it is quite visionary for myself.

i would describe gotu as trip coffee. it contains caffeine, so it does have stimulating effects. however, i get a very pronounced presence with gotu that i don't get as much with coffee.

*note i am a sensitive individual to all the psychedelics i've experimented with...though friends of mine who have tried these have noted similar effects.

thoughtsUnThought
19-07-2007, 05:14
then again, if you're taking them to 'trip out' they most likely will not comply.

i view all plants as sacred entities, and approach with a very open mind.

egor
19-07-2007, 06:52
That is how to best approach calamus

swilow
19-07-2007, 07:13
Hmm, I've smoked plenty of damiana, taking ginko, and had heaps of kava, upwards of 40grams of tongan (yes, I vomited unbelievably, and was sick in the guts for days and yes, it was foolish) and never felt anything psychedelic from any of them.... perhaps you are using the term psychedelic a bit freely, I mean there is actually not much evidence to say that damiana is active at all, and the trace quantites of harmine in passionflower have basically NO MAOI qualities at all. I say that after combing it with DMT many many times...

thoughtsUnThought
19-07-2007, 08:20
psychedelic=mind manifesting

thats what those do to me...manifest in my mind

i will say that these are more subtle psychedelics though

illusion25
19-07-2007, 08:23
yohimbe is worth to have some available.
maybe not grow, but have some in handy.

It has been there for me on certain occasions
:)

swilow
19-07-2007, 10:54
Psychedlic means= to make the mind visible, to make the mind manifest. Otherwise coffee would be psychedelic, it 'manifests' its 'effects' in the mind.... it refers to substances which show you your mind.

thoughtsUnThought
19-07-2007, 23:42
coffee...now there's a psychedelic. lol

i swear though, i can see any obvious change in my mental state as well as my visibility of those states on the aforementioned herbs.

it i was a tad crazier i may try to argue that fruits and other foods are psychedelic. for they do produce noticable effects in my mental state, as well as my visibility of these states (afterall, vitamins greatly help us to understand our psyches....especially if we are trippy individuals)

the main difference i would say for coffee, is that its primary manifestation is in the physical body. damiana for instance, i do not feel very much in my body, but it makes me trip out. lol

swilow
20-07-2007, 03:41
^^^Hey each to their own, you've prompted me to start smoking large joints of damiana again. I think maybe because I smoke too much pot, the more subtle aspects of some herbs don't really reach me. :)

mulberryman
20-07-2007, 23:02
Mot of these plants require large doses to be effective, or combinations, like in ayahuasca, or more innoculus, but none the less powerful, combos such as St. Johns Wort + Kava.

trip.more
20-07-2007, 23:13
don't forget to grab a salvia cutting;)

mulberryman
20-07-2007, 23:25
Salvia is best in extract form, but its leaves have mild effects. I've heard that Coleus has been used as a substitute for Salvia. Since its so cheap and available, anywhere you can buy plants, I had to try it. I have to say its effects are mild, but it smells a little like Salvia, and its effects are similar to Salvia leaf.

* Has anyone ever tried concentrating or extracting Coleus, I wonder??

egor
21-07-2007, 02:11
^^someone did an extraction on C. blumeii leaves on Edot, and found it to be entirely inactive. It seems that the active constituents (if there are any) are volatile oils lost in the extraction process.

athousandormore
23-07-2007, 02:48
Hmm, I've smoked plenty of damiana, taking ginko, and had heaps of kava, upwards of 40grams of tongan (yes, I vomited unbelievably, and was sick in the guts for days and yes, it was foolish) and never felt anything psychedelic from any of them.... perhaps you are using the term psychedelic a bit freely, I mean there is actually not much evidence to say that damiana is active at all, and the trace quantites of harmine in passionflower have basically NO MAOI qualities at all. I say that after combing it with DMT many many times...

I agree that damiana is not worth the trouble. A bunch of us
started smoking it during a drought but it only wrecked my lungs.

If you're looking for an effective smoke, brugmansia flowers and
leaves are effective. Just don't be tempted to make a tea out of
it, that could be very bad news.

8o

swilow
23-07-2007, 02:54
^^^I prefer my brugs to merely look at at this stage.....

mulberryman
23-07-2007, 04:06
^^^ Yes, very high in tropanes, best be careful, or just avoid it altogether.. I thought tropanes dont release in smoke anyway

swilow
23-07-2007, 05:48
^^^Yeah, I think the jury's out on that one (afaik). I've never smoked any of the datura/brugmansia plants and don't really intend to, but everything I've read about these drugs suggest that effects from smoking is based on something different; at least, the 'high' reported certainly doesn't sound like delerium.

egor
23-07-2007, 05:58
Different alkaloids becoming prominent through pyrolysis?

swilow
23-07-2007, 10:08
^^If its possible....

oxidoreductase
23-07-2007, 16:07
just to throw in my two cents about damiana, i don't think it's particularly worth it by itself. i've rolled it with cannabis and skullcap, and then it's okay. i typically only use it as a joint filler; it burns well, it smells and tastes okay, but i don't consider it psychoactive.

mulberryman
23-07-2007, 17:25
With the natural stuff, its the combinations that are the most worthwhile. Any DMT containing plant like Mimosa, Chacruna, Desmanthus with Syrian Rue or Caapi.. The alternative to this is the Griffonia (or tryptophan/5-htp) + St Johns Wort, no visuals with this, but it does produce psychedelicesque euphoria.

IGNVS
23-07-2007, 19:43
what was your dosage of the two for that psychedelicesque euphoria? also was it eaten, or smoked?

mulberryman
23-07-2007, 20:41
eaten, the dosages are far to high to be smoked. I'm about 100kg, so if your lighter/heavier, you'd need less/more, but usually 4-5 gr L-tryptophan, or 8-10 grams Griffonia (haven't tried pure 5-htp yet) and 3-6 grams St Johns Wort. Incedenty, 1-2 regular doses of any anti-dep works as well, I have tried this with prozac, elavil, zoloft, pamelor; welbutrin was less than effective. 3-4 gr syrian rue also worked, but the side effects were very unpeasant.

PsyGhost
23-07-2007, 23:39
just to throw in my two cents about damiana, i don't think it's particularly worth it by itself. i've rolled it with cannabis and skullcap, and then it's okay. i typically only use it as a joint filler; it burns well, it smells and tastes okay, but i don't consider it psychoactive.

Skullcap is used medicinally as a nerve tonic. I have a plant right now about to flower, and plan on making a tea. Ive heard inflorescences are prefered than leaves.

Anyone got experience with skullcap infusions? The medicinal dose is usually 1-2g taken 3 times a day. So my guess the fun dose would be...3-6g taken at once. Recommended to be taken with velerian, catnip, and other sedating herbs.

mulberryman
24-07-2007, 00:10
Catnip is very nice, like 3-4 gram infusion tea, nice euphoria lasts about 30-60 min or so.. Valerian's not very euphoric at all and stinks like hell, will knock you out tho, then make you groggy when you wake up. Skullcap is very mild, sedative, similar to chamomile.

Doctor__Anonymous
25-07-2007, 05:21
on the note of scullcap, valerian, etc., i have some input. last week i bought a bottle of "Ex-Stress" capsules from GNC. they contain hops, valerian, scullcap, cayanne pepper, wood betony, and black cohosh. it tells you to take 1-2 3 times a day, but has no overdose label, or any warning ata all besides the pregnancy warning. i take about 3-5 of them, and smoke a bowl of say mid-grade reefer, and it makes me feel like i've smoked about 4 bowls, not to mention other effects similar to cannabis and even valium.

trip.more
25-07-2007, 07:18
Salvia is best in extract form, but its leaves have mild effects.

It's really easy to make your own extract, I would say it's fun ;)

mulberryman
25-07-2007, 17:02
^^^ What is the easiest way?

trip.more
25-07-2007, 17:19
here's the one I use

http://www.erowid.org/plants/salvia/salvia_extraction4.shtml

IGNVS
25-07-2007, 17:34
cold acetone, though i would like to know what other chemicals (besides acetone and isopropyl alchohol) can salvinorin a be extracted with?

mulberryman
08-09-2007, 02:04
Kava is best fresh, but freshly dried powder is ok, but you may need several grams. I don't find it particularily offensive in taste, just a little bitter peppery, not to bad. Unfortunately, its hard to make a good extract, because not all the kavalactones are water soluable, and some are not even alcohol soluable. I've heard that you can use vergetable or mineral oil though.

I've found yohimbe to be one of the most potent and least euphoric stimulants around. High doses cause me to become very jittery and sickishy overstimulated, kinda like taking too much caffeine.

The best I've found has got to be the Mimosa and Syrian rue combo, which is powerfully psychedelic, and very similar to Ayahuasca. Some would say this is Ayahuasca, although, true Ayahuaca is made from Banisteriopsis caapi, caapi vine or Ayahuasca vine instead of Syrian rue. Of course both of these are MAOI's, so one has to be careful not to eat certain foods while taking them.

mulberryman
08-09-2007, 02:08
St Johns Wort enhances and prologs the effects of the kava, since it prevents the reuptake of GABA, while kava is a GABA-a receptor agonist, similar to benzodiazepines.

None of the tropanes will produce noticable effects, when smoked, from what I understand. A small amount of brugmansia is sometimes added to Ayahuasca, and it does help potentiate the effects, but one needs to be very careful with these types of plants.

swilow
08-09-2007, 02:32
^I would think that St Johns Wort would decrease effect; does it not have GABA anatagonist properties?

swilow
08-09-2007, 02:36
I would usually consume kava with millk and lecithtin granules to emuslify. Kava water extracts never do much for me unless you leave it for a good few days. My GABA erceptors suck shit though.

Heyoka
08-09-2007, 03:53
Hey Erick, If you ever make it to Antarctica, try extracted rue alkaloids with dmt. Zero nausea or diarhea . Better than mushrooms by far (imho), still long lasting depending on dose of maoi and type of maoi. Everything that ayahuasca is plus predictable doseing and minus the negative side effects.