PDA

View Full Version : The Big & Dandy Natural Psychotropics and Ethnobotanics Thread



Pages : 1 [2] 3 4 5 6

mulberryman
08-09-2007, 04:03
^I would think that St Johns Wort would decrease effect; does it not have GABA anatagonist properties?

I'm not aware of any. From what I understand SJW contains 2 chemicals, hypericin and hyperforin. Hypericin is a dopamine reuptake inhibitor, and hyperforin inhibits the reuptake of serotonin, norepinephrine, dopamine, glutamate and GABA. True glutamate should counteract the GABA to some degree, but from personal experience, I find STJ to enhance effects and lower tolerance for both benzos and kava.


That's a great combination, I LOVE THE VISUALS FROM IT. But I HATE THE NAUSEA. After trying it many times and always getting nausea and feeling sick from it, I stopped using it. Maybe if made with Banisteriopsis caapi it might be less nauseating, but I doubt it.

Yeah, it can be rough. I find the best way is to take the rue first, ground up and parachuted or in capsules, and slowly, one cap at a time. Then after about 20-40 min then take the mimosa or mimosa extract or tea, also slowly. I find it helps to take it with sugary, fibery food, cereal bars work really well.

swilow
08-09-2007, 06:20
Kava is defintely somewhat hit and miss....I have added ssaliva (my own) to my concoction with varying results. I find extract pills absolutely useless however. I also get very intense nausea of a milky preparetion of kava- so much so that I really don't feel like trying it again.

Mulberryman, I cannot remember where I read that; there is a large chance its a ficticous "fact" created by my head ;)

akThrash
08-09-2007, 07:41
added your own saliva eh? you just save it in a cup next to your keyboard?

mulberryman
08-09-2007, 20:37
Yeah, kava pills are usually worthless. The thing about kava, it really depends on how fresh it is. Once dried, it loses potency rather quickly, and usually only good for 3-4 weeks. The capsules they sell in health food stores have probably been sitting around for a while, and even if they're still good, you'd probably need the whole bottle for even an average dose.

PsyGhost
08-09-2007, 23:19
None of the tropanes will produce noticable effects, when smoked, from what I understand. A small amount of brugmansia is sometimes added to Ayahuasca, and it does help potentiate the effects, but one needs to be very careful with these types of plants.

Tropanes can be smoked. I've never tried, but its in the literature.

nealcassady
08-09-2007, 23:56
one herb i haven't seen talked much about on here is Pedicularis densiflor (indian warrior), i love it. seems to be the only other herb with worthwhile potency compared to cannabis. has a nice sweet taste with thick smoke, no throat discomfort at all.. actually feels like it should be smoked, goes great rolled in a joint with cannabis as it seems to potentate it greatly, you can also make a tea out of it before bedtime..

effects have an obvious muscle relaxation with a contentment towards everything around me, i also notice a heightened sense of touch when i pick things up or walk around, which is nice.. very relaxing at the end of the day

oh and also a few native tribes around the mountainous parts of the US , as it grows in high altitudes naturally, are known to smoke it medicinally
good stuff, i'd recomend it

PsyGhost
09-09-2007, 00:16
Never heard of it, can't find it in any of my medicinal/psychoactive plant books either.

Recept
09-09-2007, 00:35
Pedicularis densiflora, Indian Warrior & Pedicularis groenlandica, Elephants Head & Pedicularis grandiflora.

All of the Pedicularis' are tranquilizers, muscle relaxants, powerful aphrodesiacs, and sedatives. They are often employed medicinally for muscle pain and tension, particularly back pain. Pedicularis are also used for their psychological effects, good for anger, fear, pain, anxiety. At least one Native American tribe is known to smoke the flowers of certain Pedicularis species for their medicinal effects and narcotic effects. These plants are a welcome addition to any smoking mixture both as flavor and a narcotic. Elephant's Head is claimed to have the best flavor but is the mildest, but every Pedicularis has an excellent taste. P. Densiflora being the most potent species.

Elephant's Head dries to beautiful red or purple buds with what appears to be red hairs. Indian Head dries into green buds that could easily confuse a local peace officer. The narcotic effects however are profoundly different. Pedicularis are somewhat rare plants found in mountainous regions of the Northern Hemisphere. Since they are semi-parasitic, supplementing its photosynthesis with thievery and are not at all easy to cultivate, these factors make them very rare in Ethnobotanical collections. Pedicularis groenlandica is also found in Labrador and Greenland and is rarely parasitic, like its name implies the flowers really do look like pink Elephant heads. Cheyenne Indians made it into a tea to break up a cough.

PsyGhost
09-09-2007, 02:42
yeah i read that on a supplier's website. would rather have some ethnobotanical sources though. Anytime something pops up thats not in the encylopedia of psychoactive plants I get interested. %)

nealcassady
09-09-2007, 03:00
yeah i read that on a supplier's website. would rather have some ethnobotanical sources though. Anytime something pops up thats not in the encylopedia of psychoactive plants I get interested. %)

its a nice and simple herb to enjoy, it's not a heavy feeling effect either.. i actually feel quite light on my toes, and mainly just refreshed. i love getting some nice quality cognac rolling papers and rolling a batch to keep in my pocket and enjoy throughout the day. the taste of the densiflora family hits my sweet spot, smooth and milky smoke.. ah anyway %) .. check it out sometime

swilow
09-09-2007, 07:36
All of the Pedicularis' are tranquilizers, muscle relaxants, powerful aphrodesiacs, and sedatives. They are often employed medicinally for muscle pain and tension, particularly back pain. Pedicularis are also used for their psychological effects, good for anger, fear, pain, anxiety. At least one Native American tribe is known to smoke the flowers of certain Pedicularis species for their medicinal effects and narcotic effects. These plants are a welcome addition to any smoking mixture both as flavor and a narcotic. Elephant's Head is claimed to have the best flavor but is the mildest, but every Pedicularis has an excellent taste. P. Densiflora being the most potent species.

Very interesting information- do you have any links for this? You have me intrigued....

nealcassady
09-09-2007, 07:54
Sorry, no sources in any form

mulberryman
09-09-2007, 08:41
Yes they do seem very interesting. I'm familiar with alot of herbs, but never tried this one as I've read some negative reports on it. Do you know anything about the biochemical pharmacology of it?

nealcassady
09-09-2007, 18:26
ELEPHANT'S HEAD
Botanical Name: Pedicularis groenlandica
Family: Scrophulariaceae

Parts Used: Flowering herb

Constituents: * Variable (see below). Volatile oil (mostly monoterpenes) Flavonoids, including luteolin; Phenylpropanoids including verbascoside, echinacoside.

Principal Actions: CNS depressant, voluntary muscle relaxant.

Pharmacy: Tincture of Dry herb 1:5, 50% alcohol. 5-10ml up to QID. Infusion flowers 5gms/250ml up to TID.

Pedicularis spp, are abundant in the NorthWest. Not to be confused with the European Wood Betony, they are commonly known as Louseworts; but morphological variation in the inflorescence has given rise to zoopomorphic common names such as Elephant's Head (P. groelandica), Parrot's beak (P. racemosa) and Cobra Head (P. bracteosa). Medicinally they are little studied or used other than by local herbalists who employ them as a mild sedatives with a pronounced relaxant action on skeletal muscle.

BOTANY
P. groelandica is a showy perennial Scrophulariaceae, with pink-white flowers on a racemose spike up to 60 cm tall. The leaves are fern like, the stem unbranched, and the individual flowers on the spike have a ³trunk² in between the three lobed ³ears²- hence the common appellation. It is found in damp meadows at middle to high elevations - in Oregon it is found on both sides of the Cascade mountains. The genus itself is abundant, and there are over forty species throughout North America, with representatives from Mexico to Alaska.

HARVESTING
The flowering herb is gathered and dried. For tincture, the whole herb is used, for infusions, the flowers are preferred.

PHARMACOLOGY
There are a very few studies on the constituents of the genus covering a range of about twenty species. There even fewer on the biological activity of the herb. An outstanding feature of the constituent analyses is the variability of different components. For example, P. groelandica has been shown to contain the isoquinoline alkaloid methyl cytisine (also found in Caulophyllum) whilst the pyrrolizidine alkaloid senecionine has been found in another species (1). A sensible, if unsubstantiated hypothesis to explain this has been put forward by Moore (2) - ie that the species is potentially parasitic, and when found in close association with other plants, has the capacity to absorb constituents of its neighbour. It is undoubtedly true that P. groelandica is commonly found in meadows which are abundant in Senecio triangularis, however they grow close to other alkaloidal species such as Aconitum, and Aconitine has not been recorded in the genus. The ³parasite² hypothesis remains speculative, if attractive.
One study has confirmed that a hot aqueous extract has both CNS sedative and hypotensive actions in vivo(3), although the species used was not groelandica.


ETHNOBOTANY
There is ethnobotanical evidence that a related species P canadensis was used by more than one tribe as an abortifacient taken as hot infusion.(1). The same sepecies was also used as a love charm, and as an aphrodisiac - the herb was chopped and sprinkled on the (spouse's) food to kindle their interest(4).

MEDICINAL USES
Willard (4) suggests the herb is a useful febrifuge and diaphoretic as a hot infusion, as well as a relaxing sedative. Moore(2) suggests that the relaxant action is primary, as well as having a thymoleptic effect. The extract has been used by massage therapists to help relax excessive muscular tension; the flowers have been incorporated into a relaxing smoking mixture.(5) It is seen by some herbalists to be an appropriate remedy for children who cannot sleep due to a state of overexicitation.(2)

this is from..
http://www.entheogen.com/forum/archive/index.php?t-985.html

an excerpt from an ethnobotany book, mostly on just its locations, few effects listed.. sorta worthless but these two are about all i can find for something that looks halfway credible
http://books.google.com/books?id=vxAaBv8fW00C&pg=PA594&lpg=PA594&dq=pharmacology+pedicularis+densiflora&source=web&ots=SQf6Qql5kx&sig=jqMw_NRSBO0AWaQWrsX4GiPfOdI#PPP1,M1

swilow
10-09-2007, 01:21
^Cheers bro, much appreciated. I haven't been able to find out anything about these plants, except that no-one seems to know shit about them

mulberryman
11-09-2007, 00:18
^^ Its still much more active if taken orally.

swilow
11-09-2007, 00:39
I find the tropane- plants to be highly attractive to me, both in their seductive beauty, and their extremely powerful effects- I have only used small doses of scopolamine tablets, but someday I certianly plan to at least contemplate maybe concoting a brew of some brugmansias or daturas. I actually saw this really nice herbal beer recipe that used blue lotus as a bittering agent and a species of brugmansia for sedation and reduction of nasuea I believe. It looked like a very tasty ethnobotanical brew.... Erick, do you have links for the tropane being addictive? Thats an interesting and rather weird fact....

I've been enjoying a blend of nymphae caerulea (sp?) and alba, with leonitis leonuris flowers, just an occaisional pipe or joint with a drink or two really seems to elevate dopamine levels. A nice gentle blens- nothing to rave about, but a good alternative to cigarettes. As a heavy smoker, I'll have to try puffing a bit of datura I think- I do have quite a bad cough ;)

PsyGhost
11-09-2007, 01:02
Willow, have you tried fresh blue lotus/lilly flowers extracted in wine, as done on Sacred Weeds documentary?

edit: btw, i have a recipe for henbane beer, if interested.%)

Heyoka
11-09-2007, 01:39
And count yourself lucky if you don't attempt to take a bath in the middle of a freeway.

Jimson weed is a poor choice to play with, Datura plays for keeps. I got lucky that I didn't do anything too stupid while on the stuff but others haven't been as lucky and I did get naked in a totally innapropriate place. For some reason getting naked is a common part of stories that start "One time at band camp, while on datura...."

mulberryman
11-09-2007, 02:13
All too true, high doses of datura are bad news, but low doses, say, under 2 grams or so can produce a nice light-headedness in some people, and can be used medicinally as an anti-histamine. Low doses can be used to potentiate other entheogens as well. Personally, I'm not too comfortable with datura though, the light sensativity and constant cotton mouth are just too much for me.

egor
11-09-2007, 21:02
On another forum I frequent, there has been a lot of hype recently about Verbascum blattaria v. erubescens aka white moth mullein as an excelent cannibis substitute. Anyone have any good info on it. I have yet to be able to find a list of its active constituents and would really like to know more about it. If anyone has any good info on it, please post it, any help is appreciated:)

Ptah
11-09-2007, 21:27
A relatively safe way to use datura is by adding broken/crushed/shredded (whole seeds can make your joint explode) seeds to marihuana.
Even with that inefficient method you might find yourself thinking and talking total bs.
Can be a sorta nice high, in moderation.

Daily use made my alarm bells ring so I didn't really explore that option.

The smoke smells real bad so you'll definitely get funny looks and remarks if you do this in public.

Kenaz
14-09-2007, 01:22
I would be interested in seeing the effect of Kanna on an MDMA or LSD experience: I know that it synergizes very nicely with cannabis. ;)

I'd also note that wormwood extract appears to be pretty psychoactive both on its own and (especially) when combined with a bit of hemp.

mulberryman
14-09-2007, 01:49
Since Kanna is an SSRI, it might actually decrese the effects of MDMA or LSD, as other SSRI's certainly do, but then again it might not...

PsyGhost
14-09-2007, 03:39
So, I just tried some kratom leaf, 9g steeped in hot (not boiling) water. Didn't feel anything within 45 mins so drank another 5g. Still got nothing.

I've previously used 2-3g of extract (standardized 15x) and felt significant effects. Should i try a higher dose next time?

nealcassady
14-09-2007, 03:59
^kratom's pretty hit or miss with me it seems, even from the same vendor, one batch comparing to the next batch could be pretty different in depth of effects it seems. i've also notice that dosing for the second time after a first has never done much for me, even if i am well off and good from the first dose. gotta love it though when it all works out
edit: i'd wait a day or two as tolerance is a bitch with kratom and combine those two weights and maybe a tad to drink all at once.. depends on you though if you like drink after drink of smaller weights as opposed to stomaching a bulk amount

Xorkoth
14-09-2007, 08:46
Strangely, the last batch I had was kicking my ass at as low as 6 grams. But this current batch I just received seems much weaker. It had been pretty consistent for a while, but this one is taking around 10 to 12 grams per dose.

mulberryman
14-09-2007, 18:35
Kratom seems hit or miss to me too, especially considering 3 whole grams of 25x extract did almost nothing for me once. Reminds me of that lactucarium, or lettuce opium, sometimes its good, sometimes its bunk.

Xorkoth
14-09-2007, 18:44
I never had any luck whatsoever with the extracts. I mean, they did something, but nothing even close to what their supposed strength would have done with regular strength leaf. I have found the leaf to be the most consistent and best value by far and have mentioned this many times here at BL. I've never had regular leaf not work. its potency varies a bit, but mostly, from a good supplier, it's quite consistent. This last batch I got is probably the weakest I've ever had, and is quite unusual. I've been using kratom for 3 years, and I've very rarely had a batch vary in strength (dose required) by more than a gram or two. Until this one, which seems like it's perhaps old and/or was stored in the heat. FYI, kratom should be stored in your freezer to prevent degradation, which can happen pretty quickly.

Delsyd
14-09-2007, 18:56
iv heard of fake kratom hitting the market.
perhaps you have fallen victom to it :(

nealcassady
14-09-2007, 20:48
a dose of about 9-12 O sized caps works out well for me usually with batches of the malaysian leaf. though a few days ago i used some that i purchased 6 or so months ago thinking it'd be alright.. got very sick feeling in the stomach, usually doesnt happen, went bad i guess

Xorkoth
14-09-2007, 21:03
That was mostly a few years back. No, it's kratom... just weaker than usual.

swilow
25-09-2007, 15:43
Well, tonight I have prepared what has been a successfully 'inebriating' tea utilising blue lotus, valerian root and passionflower. The two types of ginseng, as well as 'Siberian ginseng' and withania herb were also consumed prior to consumption...

Recipe: 12g passiflora, 7 grams blue lotus and four grams of valerian. On top of that has been some puffs on marijuana (well bongs actually :)) and several joints of lotus and passionflower. Whetehr its placebo or not, I defintely feel very relaxed, focused, mildly spacey and VERY philosophical. This is not a psychedelic or getting fucked up combo at all, but a very relaxing and rewarding state. I plan to do this again adding damiana, and poppies. Contemplating smoking something stronger, but I feel very content and don't want to agitate my mind.

Anyway, just thought I'd ramble that off- a very agreeable herbal concotion- quite tasty too. :)

PsyGhost
25-09-2007, 22:24
^I recently did 6g of blue lotus which had been steeped in white wine for 3 days. It got me somewhere definitely. I felt like when I would walk in a straight line that the floor was slowly spinning and it made me try and spin my body to compensate. Not exactly sure how to describe it. Relaxed, sedating for sure, but short (2 hours later it was gone completely). When it came off I had energy which suprised me.

Plan on doing it again, maybe 10g lotus.

nealcassady
25-09-2007, 22:56
lotus is a great addition to many things.. sedates my usual cannabis anxiety, though sometimes i enjoy those wide-eyed squirrel like movements:) .. and adds plenty of euphoria to a beer or two

neverstop
30-11-2007, 05:04
yeah i cant find any info on google about the moss.... anyone know where it grows?

according to wikipedia it doesn't exist...they list a bunch of different species and none match

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lycopodium

swilow
30-11-2007, 07:45
^Wikipedia is hardly definiteive though :)

Ismene
30-11-2007, 11:31
Well, tonight I have prepared what has been a successfully 'inebriating' tea utilising blue lotus, valerian root and passionflower. The two types of ginseng, as well as 'Siberian ginseng' and withania herb were also consumed prior to consumption...

Recipe: 12g passiflora, 7 grams blue lotus and four grams of valerian. On top of that has been some puffs on marijuana (well bongs actually :)) and several joints of lotus and passionflower. Whetehr its placebo or not, I defintely feel very relaxed, focused, mildly spacey and VERY philosophical. This is not a psychedelic or getting fucked up combo at all, but a very relaxing and rewarding state. I plan to do this again adding damiana, and poppies. Contemplating smoking something stronger, but I feel very content and don't want to agitate my mind.

Anyway, just thought I'd ramble that off- a very agreeable herbal concotion- quite tasty too. :)

I like your style willow :)

Ptah
30-11-2007, 17:14
^Wikipedia is hardly definitive though :)
Wikipedia is the Word of God you little blasphemer you

mulberryman
30-11-2007, 19:03
^Wikipedia is hardly definiteive though :)

Human knowledge is hardly definitive. There's probably hundreds, if not thousands of species as not yet isolated and categorized by modern science that can get you high as a Georgia Pine on a hill of Green Light Super Bloom.

swilow
02-12-2007, 01:21
Wikipedia is the Word of God you little blasphemer you

Lord, FORGIVE ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It should be called dickepedia...did you know that one of Zolpidems side effects was, for about 3 days, watermelon sized testicles?


Human knowledge is hardly definitive. There's probably hundreds, if not thousands of species as not yet isolated and categorized by modern science that can get you high as a Georgia Pine on a hill of Green Light Super Bloom.

I think in the deep ocean trenches that theirs probably an entire PEA lab synthing things more complex then any human could invent. And its run by blind fish with legs and wings.

Ptah
02-12-2007, 01:29
one of Zolpidems side effects was, for about 3 days, watermelon sized testicles?
You mean it isn't? ;)

PsyGhost
07-12-2007, 03:48
So I picked up some kava kava and passion flower the other day.

Has anyone smoked passion flower or is it better to make a tea? Anyone got some dosages?

The kava worked just a little, but thats probably cuz I used 2 teaspoons instead of 2 tablespoons.

swilow
07-12-2007, 23:34
^I don't 'dose' passionflower too specifically, but a few teaspoons per cup should do it. It can be nice to smoke and drink it; it is relaxing, but mildly so. Kava, if it works, is very very good! :)

nealcassady
08-12-2007, 01:16
Kava, if it works, is very very good! :)

yesyse, i love kava deeply.. hopefully, if i can afford it that is.. i may able to visit hawaii this coming spring break, first thing i'm going to do when i get there - visit a awa/kava bar:)

Xorkoth
08-12-2007, 01:20
Kava works, but is more subtle that some reports suggest, at least for me. It is a good anxiety-reliever and mild relaxant. Perhaps at high doses it becomes more interesting.

nealcassady
08-12-2007, 01:39
^very true.. if you live near a food or health store that sells Yogi brand tea, i urge you to check out their kava product.. they add cinnamon and other spices that make the tea taste amazing and work just a good too.. come in from the cold outside and pour yourself hot water over 3-4 bags, and you've got yourself warmthy comfort in a cup, go on to drinking 2-3 cups.. light a bowl or two = %) .. this has been my nightly ritual for a while now, perfect combination for a comforting night around the house

Xorkoth
21-12-2007, 00:04
What's a good dose of blue lotus petals? I finally obtained a sample of them to explore but I'd like an opinion from someone experienced as to a proper dosage.

Thanks!

Xorkoth
21-12-2007, 00:36
So I made a tea of 7 grams that I ground up pretty finely first... I'll let it steep for about 20 minutes a la kratom. I also have a dose of kratom made. Will this be a good combination? I'm fairly certain it will be. Should I drink the lotus material along with the tea, or should I strain it and just drink the tea?

This lotus tea smells exactly like the monkey house at a zoo! Odd... is that just me?

fourty6andtwo
21-12-2007, 19:08
This lotus tea smells exactly like the monkey house at a zoo! Odd... is that just me?

8o eww...mine has never smelled like that...