bupe withdrawals, how are they?

ok so i hear bupe has a long ass half life. its great for maintenance where you can function and don't crave other opiates. but eventually you'll (I) have to come off it. has anyone here withdrew from buprenorphine? i hear bupe is the new "miracle drug", its saved many lives etc. it doesn't seem to be all that much of a miracle tho. i have a friend whos spent hundreds of dollars on it and found himself just addicted to it as any other opiate. but what about comin off taht shit. thats the part that i haven't heard much about. i read somewhere that rats showed withdrawal symptoms from only 4days use of it too. this drug is listed as a synthetic opiate. ppl who dont use opiates get sky high off it i watched my friend itch his brains out off of 6mg. if anyone has any experience with missing a dose, or the pain associated with this another legal (yet addicting in itself) drug i'm curious to hear. im tapering off of H with this shit (trying to for that matter - u know how that shit goes).

I was addicted to bupe before I got into heroin and morphine, and the bupe was hard to kick. Not as hard as heroin, but its bad enough and LASTS. It took me a good month to even want to go out of the house.

I have gone through bupe WDs a few times (though at very low levels, less than 2 mg/day) and found that it isn't that bad (classic WD symptoms in the beginning, with added sharp pains in the stomach). If you have the willpower, try taking some short-acting less strong opiates (I usually grab a handful of 5mg percs to ride through the 3rd-5th day, taking 2-4 a day just to help with the symptoms). After that, I feel seminormal, so I wouldn't say bupe's WDs are as nearly as bad as many of the opiates out there. Tapering seems to be key though, since I have a friend who takes upward of 40mg a day and DOES go through some serious WDs when he abruptly stops taking them (uh, duh--he is an idiot).

swybs

i think we need to get that idea of a MIRACLE CURE out of the way..there is no such thing, nor do i think there ever will be to be honest...everyone that claims bupe i a miracle drug are STILL aking it most likely, so of course they think it works great..i thought the same for methadone...its when ya start kicking it and get clean yu realize all you were doing is replacing oneopiod for another....

as for wthdrawal, i think it varies ALOT from person to person...some have said they feel like a zombie for 4-5 days and then thats it whereas others have said they feel like total shit for up to a month...its hard to account for any siko-samatic activity either soooo..

i couldnt agree with you more tongue. this is for all you other people out there. is the reason most people go thru an overall painless transition from H to bupe because 1) there is some cross tolerance and ur just substituting a weaker opiate for your poison of choice or 2) bupe is a seperate opiate whether u like to admit it or not (legal one) and is getting u high all together - u ARE still withdrawaling from heroin but NOT feeling it bc ur getting high in the process so its ok.

symptoms lasted a month??!! shit when they say this has a high success rate? SUCCESS from what? 90% of the ppl i talk to they haven't stopped taking so ofcourse theyre successfull lolol. i bet u after i stop taking this shit if i feel symptoms for a fuckin month itll be no surprise at all that i relapse on my shorter acting drug of choice to just "aid" me with my symptoms in the process. haha yea right.

I have detoxed off of bupe after a 2 year run, and after a 3 month run.

For me alot of the w/d's brought on by this drug are psychosomatic, if I detox down to a small enough dosage [.25mg] than start alternating dosage days its really not that bad. The first time I got off after the 2 yr bit I also had a huge mind block getting past the .5mg mark as mentally I relied heavily on that daily snort or sublingual dose. It took me a few times with different mindsets before I was finally able to kick the pills to the curb.

As always I recomend having a cocktail of other detox meds on hand to help ease the come-off. Also staying buzy was a huge factor for me, if I was just laying around everyday constantly thinking about coming off bupe it was much, much harder. If I kept myself busy [usually out drinking or something of the sorts] it really wasnt to bad at all. Although I do find that sometimes alcohol tends to precipitate w/d's slightly when using bupe but its really not that big of an issue.

I have been successful in stopping bupe everytime I have wanted to, currently I am back on bupe for a handful of reasons, mainly to keep this summer heroin-free. IMO when compared with methadone the w/d symptoms are a fuck of a lot easier to deal with.

I still think bupe is a miracle 'drug' not cure. It has helped me put heroin on the backburner successfully many times and allows my head to be a bit clearer when I actually start to deal with the why's behind my addiction.

well, i went from 24mg/day down to 4 currently...ill be stopping all together in less than a week so i can let you know how it is then. =)

and i agree with blah*3
its not a cure, but its most definatly a miracle...its not hard to taper down (not sure about the come off yet) and has worked extremely well in keeping me off/from even thinking bout or wanting to do dope.

I agree with blah, I mean nothing is a miracle, since miracles don't exist ;>. However, I have never had my WDs be so bearable, and while I still occasionally take low dose (2mg or under) when I feel urges to do other drugs, I have stopped for extended periods. In fact, it has perm. assisted in helping me change my mindset, since for a loong time, I had wanted to quit. I suppose it boils down to, if you are really really ready to quit, bupe can be a wonderful tool. And while bupe and methadone seem similar on paper, I would NEVER take methadone on a regular basis. Except for those with insane INSANE daily intakes who absolutely need to start with methadone rather than first go to bupe, I wouldn't recommend long-term MMT on my worst enemy.

As for feeling high on bupe? The doses I take are too low for any such feeling, though I do feel the antidepressant effect of it. Also, even with large quantities of bupe, I am never tempted to take more than (if I am in WD) what I need to not be in WD. Even when I take 2mg when I am feeling tempted or just depressed, I never take more, and more often than not, I take less.

So, miracle drug, no. But a great tool for someone in my situation? Absolutely. One last thing, I think it is mindset--I know a few people that have successfully used bupe to quit H, quit bupe, and continue to be sober after over a year (in one case). Obviously, if someone wants to get high, they are going to get some H and get high--no drug is going to stop that, sans death.
swybs

well I hope not too bad... i'm down to 0.8mg of bupe/day and everything is aight!

w/d

I've been on suboxone detox three times and was illegally maintaining myself on it for a good 7months before I got on Methadone awhile back. I can say that it is easier than most opiates to withdrawal off of if your on it for a short period of time (ie: month or less detox). It is important to remember that buprenorphine is often under estimated. I have found that 1mg of bup can hold off a 2 bag heroin tolerance or about 150mg of oxycodone a day. I have made the switch from Heroin/Oxy to bup. many times. So what I'm trying to explain is TAPER TAPER TAPER, your dose as LOW as you can go before jumping off. I'm talking about .3-.2mg. This was I have found that the half-life (and subsequently how often I need to dose) of bup seems to go down, and doesn't hold me as long, which makes the withdrawals kick in faster and last shorter. If you taper to .3mg and you have been on it for a month or less (2months wont kill you, but it does W/D will be longer, not really more intense per se) the w/d are longer than dope for sure, but much less intense MUCH less intense. I was sleeping everynight for atleast 4 hours, which was unheard of with other detox's. I even took my final exams on day 3. Just take low dose of benzo's and some clonidine, ambien is bomb for sleep. Bup has also been great in changing my mindset and additude towards quitting, and kills my cravings in a different way than any other opiate maintenance (methadone). It got my head straight, and killed almost all my psychological cravings which when detoxing HELPS TO NO END. So I wouldn't expect anything too terrible if you taper, but I have heard horror stories just the same as any opiate if you stay on it for too long at huge doses, and for me I consider anything over 8mg a HUGE dose. People really underestimate this drug, it can be a great tool. But if abused, no shit your gonna be sick as fuck. I recommend in conjunction with bup. getting busy with a job and getting some self help, family, and counseling. It really helps kills those mental cravings, which I think bup is so great for facilitating. /end rant

Best of luck bro.

Wow, all this hassle just to get high, another thing that may aid you in kicking the opiate habit is reminding yourself about all of this fucking bullshit, just for a short lived hit. There is other pleasures in life...(and drugs )

bupe wd isnt as bad it you have switched from whatever to bupe then taper in 4 weeks, i felt chills etc but wasnt too bad, and that was after 10yrs on methadone. Trouble is i relapsed 9 months later.

Either way bupe is nowhere near what methadone withdrawal is.

You might not experience anything in the way of withdrawal symptoms in the first place. If you do, they'll almost certainly be very mild. Just grin and bear it - the sooner you come off, the easier it'll be.

You'll probably find the only troublesome withdrawal symptom will be insomnia.

Good luck.

^^^ Good advice. Just tough it out really, I know its easier said than done, but keep trying and you'll get there.

I managed to go eight weeks on 70mg methadone per day every day and didn't feel any withdrawals. Everyone's different, but four weeks of buprenorphine is definitely unlikely to be that uncomfortable.

I cant imagine it to be excruciating, but I do have a high tolerance for pain...it kind of turns me on sometimes, especially when

Don't forget that buprenorphine is only a partial agonist and does have some antagonistic properties. This means that four weeks of daily buprenorphine use will produce withdrawals significantly less pronounced and of shorter duration than that produced by full-agonist opiates/opioids that activate the mu-opioid receptor to a greater extent than that of buprenorphine.

Most people would agree that in most people four weeks of using buprenorphine is very unlikely to result in withdrawal symptoms beyone mild insomnia perhaps. The fear of withdrawal will probably be far worse than the withdrawal itself.

You may find that 10mg diazepam in the morning and 10mg at night will alleviate most if not all of the withdrawal symptoms you may or may not experience (just be careful to avoid getting addicted to benzodiazapines - their withdrawal is devastating).

By the way, for anyone that is considering using buprenorphine:

It's only appropriate for low-level to moderate addictions to herion. To give a better idea of what I mean objectively, doctors recommend that you only transfer to buprenorphine from methadone if on a dose of 30 to 40mg, because of the fact that it is only a partial agonist. This is the equivalent of a fairly low dose of heroin. I would only consider buprenorphine if you are not using massive doses of heroin. If you are using a lot of heroin, I would consider stabilising on methadone and gradually reducing each week or every other week (this has definitely been proven to be more effective than going 'cold turkey').

Buprenorphine is only appropriate for people wishing to stay clean, since it has such a high affinity for the receptors whilst being only a partial agonist. It's very difficult, if not impossible, to overcome this blockade and hence is only really for people wishing to become sober. It can be quite frustrating if you're not truely ready for this. This blockade still remains for about a day after taking a maintenance dose (8-32mg is the usual dose prescribed for maintenance).

If you fit into the above categories, buprenorphine is really useful in helping people sort their lives out. It can really help in reducing the physical and psychological cravings and has fewer side effects than methadone or other opiates/opioids, such as constipation. Note however that buprenorphine can cause miosis (constriction of the pupils) to a much greater extent that methadone maintenance. Sure, methadone causes your pupils to constrict while getting high on it but once tolerance sets in e.g. when using it for maintenance purposes, this effect does usually wear of in most people. Buprenorphine definitely causes the pupils to become pin-pointed. For people looking out for this sort of thing, it can be very obvious that you're 'on' something.

As for it's abuse potential, it definitely can get you high if you have an extremely low tolerance to opioids. If you take the time to filter it with a micron filter dissolving it in sterile water with cocentration of 1ml per 1mg - the amount of water needed to properly dissolve the drug and not the binders, it can be quite safe to inject intravenously. Don't heat or cood the mixture, as the maize starch will turn it into a viscous mess, which can't be injected at all.

I would recommend using a 27 guage needle and a 10ml syringe to inject it slowly intravenously. Because of it's long half-life, it still has a fairly slow onset, but definitely has a mild rush. The euphoria lasts for a extremely long length of time (about a day, like with methadone).

By the way, if you need to abstain from opiates/opioids for a considerable length of time (you must be in withdrawal) before using buprenorphine, as you will be put into precipitated withdrawal. This is because of it's unique pharmokinetics - it's antagonistic properties.

i heard of one doctor starting out EVERYONE at like 24mg, regardless of their habit. WHY is that? it seems like bupe is overkill and that they give u the highest dose possible. for me, 4mg was PLENTY, and i was using a lot of fuckin H. i think ppl say ohh well 16mg is working for me so im not gonna lower it, but try taking 8mg one day, ull be surprised that it holds u without wd too.

this is for the patients, did ur doctors make it clear how addictive and dangerous such high doses (16-32 aka ur "maintenance dose") are right from the getgo? it seems that docs want them on it for many months and dont even warn u about possible withdrawal. "oh, the withdrawal is painless we will do a quick taper and ull be good to go". are all doctors like that?? lol

I have been on methadone for many years but have had some friends that switched over to Bup. In the long run to be frankly honest there is withdrawl either way from what I have seen. Neither method is pain or discomfort free. I am glad I didn't switch over. Now don't get me wrong there are benifits to being on Bup. like being able to have office based treatment compared to going to a clinic. From what I hear, if your addiction is one year or under go for Bup. if longer go for methadone. Coming off of either methadone or Buprenhephine (sp) doesn't feel so good though IMHO. The slower the better. I have gotten off the methadone twice only to relapse through my own stupid choices.