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synchrojet
30-05-2005, 03:52
A colleaugue is claiming that she is feeling severe withdrawals from 20 days methadone usage, using an average of 20mg/day. She claims to be in her fourth day of withdrawals, and says that it is the most severe thus far.

She has called and asked if this is possible (I told her prior to usage that methadone has long WD's, but also that a couple weeks use should not present anything too severe in that department); did I misinform her?

Is there anyone who can postulate how long her WDs will be from this seemingly mild usage?

I'm lost on this one, as similar usage for me has resulted in zero WDs, so any help is appreciated here.

Thankya.

johnnyb420
30-05-2005, 03:56
i was under the impression that anything more than a week of constant use of methadone can lead to withdrawel

i could be wrong

paradoxcycle
30-05-2005, 04:17
Methadone is a very strong opioid with a much more prolonged WD syndrome than heroin. It has a half life that is 4x longer than heroin. So effects, and when you're addicted - withdrawals - are four times as long. Acute withdrawal may continue to six or seven weeks and the protracted WD symptoms may last for extended periods of time. It takes time for your body's neurotransmitters/ligands to return to normal and there is no miracle cure.

blahblahblah
30-05-2005, 04:19
How long will her w/d's be...? I couldn't tell you for sure but a large percentage of perceived w/d symptoms is psychosomatic and perceiving the w/d's to be long lasting and intense will most likely occur. That said...

20 days of 20mg per day, I would suspect that day 4 would be a very bad day. I would assume that with a 20 day use/detox that the intensity of w/d's would be focused on the first week and taper off leaving the user to experience w/d symptoms for the length of use [20 days], although I would say the w/d symptoms would be significantly-less in the 2nd and 3rd week. Sleeplessness, anxiety, etc. nothing that couldn't be masked using common methods.

Could I ask what was her prior experience with opiates and what was the 20 day use for [pain/detox/etc.]? I take it there was no tapering of dosing in the last 7 days or so, correct?

That could be the reason she is experiencing bad w/d's from hopping of at the 20mg mark, w/d's might have been reduced by using the methadone for a slightly longer period of time in a decrease tiration in dosing.

21rst day 15mgs
23rd day 10mgs
25th 5mgs
--stop meth dosing and supplemented with w/d meds

synchrojet
30-05-2005, 04:37
Her prior opioid use is moderate.

Blahblah -- she has access to about six more ten mg tabs. Would you recommend that she dose down or just stick it out from here?

This is confusing to me because my experience with methadone was entirely different. I liked the high (most don't), and I used it continuously for over two weeks at a similar dose, even higher, and had only mild discomfort upon quitting, strictly mental I do believe. Not even enough to call WDs in my book, so I am not a good candidate for advice for her on this one.

blahblahblah
30-05-2005, 04:46
^tough question 4 days into w/d already. I would say maybee if the w/d's become unbearable to low dose 5-10mg of methadone to relieve any ill symptoms but than you start to play with fire. I couldnt see it hurting too much but you know the drill when you play with fire chances are you will get burned...

himynameis
30-05-2005, 06:39
As blahblahblah said, you play with fire, you get burned.... if day 5 brings even more of a scary face to her, tell her to use half a 10mg tab, etc. and use alternative remedies afterwards for the remainder of the discomforting w/d's

tell her good luck from BL :)

twgburst
30-05-2005, 07:03
Think about it this way though, 20mgs turns into 40 mgs after a little bit less that 2 weeks \
day 1-20mgs stored into your system
day 2-10 mgs
day3-5 mgs
day4-2.5 mgs

She really just started to detox cause of how long the half life is, if I was her I would take 5 mgs of methadone one day, than take like 3 mgs the next day, than less and less and than detox. She might just be better off staying off it, but if it was me I would get some dope, use that a week or two and detox heroin.

synchrojet
30-05-2005, 07:39
Detox heroin? Nah. however, she does have a few OC40s coming next week. This change things at all?

Hivelord
30-05-2005, 08:26
This wont answer your question..But I just kicked methadone cold turkey off 170 mg well I used the low strength vicodan at night ...was at 170 for 6 years..
My withdrawals lasted a good month and i still have the PAWS (post acute WD syndrome)
I think its more in her head..Look at her...does she have goosebumps? sneezing, jerky legs?
If someone is in methadone withdrawls you can tell. Your mind can prolong it as well...or cause symptoms. But 20 mg for a month or so aint shit.
If she really is sick from it I feel for her...I been wrapped up in heroin/meth cycle since 1990

Hivelord
30-05-2005, 08:30
also...the ONLY way to do painless methadone taper is to drop no more than 2 % of your dose per month. I went from 170 to 0 in 4 months but I been kicking on and off for many years.
Methadone is a motherfucker ...done alot of drugs ..stayed up on methamps for weeks ...all that ..and never ever have I seen a habit/WD like methadone gives...
Detoxing off high dose too fast...you will be lucky if you dont commit suicide.
Oh and then you stay depressed and lethargic for months. Fucking Nazi drugs
( Methamps/Methadone)

Hivelord
30-05-2005, 08:33
"She might just be better off staying off it, but if it was me I would get some dope, use that a week or two and detox heroin."
Good advice bro...better to kick a short acting opioid...but heroin has that grip..and I could never get all the way off..but thats me and I fucking love heroin like nothing else. Thankfully I moved and have no opiate dealers

Tongue
30-05-2005, 23:10
i dont know too many folks that can quit opiods by shooting heroin..it may be possible, but doesnt happen too often..

blahblahblah
31-05-2005, 00:54
^ Thats how I quit a 2 year methadone habit, detoxing off methadone was just not working nor was it my cup of tea.

I struggled forever to get down to a 20mg a day dosage thats when I started to feel every mg of methadone I dropped in every fiber of my body. I couldn't do it I got down to around 13-14mg at one time but it was just to rough on my body and stabilizing on a decreased dose was taking 3-5 days just to get used to the decrease.

I couldn't take it anymore so I was stabile at around 20-30mg of methadone and I switched to IV heroin, it took me a good solid week for my body to be accustom to the change in opiates and after a week I continued to use for about 1 month slowly tapering [or trying at least] my daily heroin intake to a reasonable detox step-off. From there it was just a matter of a handful of detox meds and I was clean. Albeit a short period of time but none-the-less I rid myself of the insane task of daily methadone usage.

As you can tell 8 years later I am still in the game of eternal-detoxing, I have been clean from all opiates for 3 weeks untill recently I have been taking doses of buprenorphine again to help dissuade my godforsaken opiate seeking brain from entering the dark world of heroin abuse, again.

Its nice having bupe as a fix, even if its just a band-aid fix. At least the band-aid and some cheap crappy one this band-aid is top of the line, it doesn't wash off in the shower and its ability to stick stays put. It also allows me to not have to dose everyday and I tend to only use the bupe when I am craving and my mind starts to get in the car itself and turn the keys over. I have been on-and-off bupe for the day it became available in Illinois about 3 years ago, since than it has allowed me to have a much more adaptable habit [not the best thing] but it has also kept me away from heroin for years at a time. It has also helped me to stay clean opiate free for about 8 months [one of the longest periods since my youth]. Yea, Yea, I know that sounds pathetic and weak that I have only been able to string 8 months of 'actual opiate free time' together in my 13-14 years of opiate abuse, but I am not sticking a needle in my arm today nor am I dreaming thoughts of cracked sidewalks and broken glass, corner deal hand offs and jabs of dope. Today at least, shrug...

Tongue
31-05-2005, 03:20
blahblah-ya think there is strong possibility yer natural endorphins have been permanently supressed??just curious..

himynameis
31-05-2005, 05:15
Originally posted by Tongue
blahblah-ya think there is strong possibility yer natural endorphins have been permanently supressed??just curious.. In my short sprung time of definite and excessive opiate abuse I have definitely felt that my bodies natural endorphins have been heavily tampered and maybe damaged (how permanent; I haven't a clue). So comparibly I'd definitely assume that his are, as well.

rachamim18
31-05-2005, 21:33
I do not think that your friend is having too many physical symptoms as opposed to emotional/mental. While, as people have pointed out, methadone does have a longer half life, and a longer withdrawal period, it also takes significantly longer to develop a physical addiction.

With methadone, there is a phase known as optimum dosing. As you take methadone over a period of time your body begins to pool it. Physicians usually refer to this as the "body's reservoir." If this person were only doing 20 mgs. for 20 days, it wouldn't be enough time [or strength] to reach that phase. there would more than likely be a very slight discomfort along the lines of yawning or cold/hot flashes, but that is as far as it goes. Mentally though, anything goes!

Tongue
01-06-2005, 23:13
longer half time-shorter to develop physical wd

B9
02-06-2005, 22:40
If she only used for four weeks it sounds unlikely that it is full bore withdrawl, but if she was using other opiates prior to this few weeks meth ,well that puts a different slant on things.
Zophen

synchrojet
05-06-2005, 23:45
She's over it -- took two more days. Weird. Methadone is a boring thing for me but i use it now and then -- I'ver done it for two and three weeks constant without any WDs to speak of. Guess I'll count my blessings!

rachamim18
06-06-2005, 22:33
An opioid devoid of euphoric value is pretty worthless.

TheLoveBandit
08-06-2009, 04:26
w/d proj bump