(Meth)amphetamine base question??

Ok,

I posted this in the other drugs forum and haven't really been getting anywhere.

I have been getting responses, such as just (smoke/IV/rub into into gums) this substance.

What I am really curious to know is whether this substance is capable of being converted to a powder form or not.

I'm not particularly sure if it is amphetamine sulphate or methaphetamine. But hopefully from what I have posted somebody here can shed light on our little dilemna.

Ok here's what I've already posted:

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Hey all,

a friend of mine just got a hold of a few points of gooey speed base (I believe it's meth).

Its a yellow gooey sticky little blob.

Before when we've had speed its been in a white powder form, and we're accustomed to snorting lines.

However if we tried to snort this I'm sure it'd would stick to either the note, or if not our nostrils. Personally I don't think that'd be particularly pleasant.

We've been told just to rub it in our gums, but would still rather snort this if possible.

I've read a few places which talk about, acid/base/salt reactions, and was curious to know whether, the difference between the speed we normally have and what we have now, is that the usual white powder is a salt, and what we have is a base.

If so is it possible to convert this goo into a powder by reacting it with an acid, or is just simply a different form, which is how it is.

Also it is a rather small quantity and would such a reaction simply waste what we have.

We were keen to snort it all on the weekend so any relevant information would be much appreciated.

Also he was told it was best to keep in his refridgirator, is this true, because its currently sitting there with the rest of his food, and if this is not true, he'd like to put it somewhere else.

Thanks in advance, the invisibleman...
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We probably will just rub it into our gums with what we have, and are not fond of IVing it.

For the future however we would still like to know if there any is possible way to convert such a substance to a powder form.

I may have been wrong about the whole acid/base/salt assumption, however am still wanting to know if there is a way to do this.

We cannot get any more of the powder we used to get, and can now only get this goo form, so any info would be appreciated.

Is it just that these forms have come through a different synthesis route, as I thought that they were essentially the same chemical just in a different form?
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I assumed that it is meth, as that I'm told most of our speedy substances (australia's that is) are synthesised via the pseudoephedrine route. And I believe through that synthesis meth is obtained, (I could easily be very wrong however). It may in fact be an amphetamine sulfate, in which case, is there any way to convert such a substance to a powder form, and not in a wasteful manner.
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Ok a little more info which may help to identify this substance, is that it is basically like a yellow ball of slightly wet, sticky playdo. If that helps. It smells rather strong, however I couldn't really describe the smell accurately in words.

Unfortunatley I can't get in touch with the cook to find out exactly what this chemical is (however REALLY want to know what I am ingesting), as our friend's cousin obtained it, and he cannot get in touch with the cook, therefore neither than we.

I've read the amphetamine FAQ (I believe by renegade), and saw that amphetamine-like chemicals come in various forms from pastes to powders etc, however this did not really help.

Basically in the end we would like to know, can this goo become powder????

And if so would there be any reduction in the quality of the product.

Thanks I hope you guys can help us out..

Assuming your goo is an impure salt.

The goo is likely due to solvent, either water and/ or a non-polar such as toluene. It can also be caused by impurities from the synthesis.

You can recrystallise it but you will lose some weight, including some product. How much this is depends upon a few things, like how much and what the impurities are, and how well the recrystallisation or washes are done (technique etc)

You might like to first try drying in a VERY LOW heat oven, or better still, on a plate over a low wattage lamp. Don't let it get too hot, just enough to evaporate off the solvent. You might find this alone will dry it. Make sure the air in the room is not humid.

Obtain some acetone (pure from a pharmacist or chem supplier, not paint thinners ) and chill in the fridge - away from food.

Using a filter paper and a funnel resistant to acetone (if it's plastic check first) place your goo in the filter paper and pour small portions of acetone over the goo. Some might dissolve and wash away, but unless it was freebase, then you don't want that anyway. Keep whats left and discard the acetone and impurities.

Then dry as before.

A better way is to recrystallise using NaOH and a suitable non-polar solvent, then washing the freebase oil with water before crystallising with HCl. It's a bit more fiddly and you'll lose more product, but it takes advantage of the wonderful solubility properties of amines.

Needless to say that if you are caught in the act, it could look like manufacturing, so perform this at your own risk etc.

just throwing in my 2 (purely theoretical) cents....

but it sound like you have (m)amp-freebase(aka. honey).
since it's not in it's acid salt form,
it should be reletively insoluable in water,
and highly soluable in a non-polar solvent(ether, napha, acetone, etc...).

normally one acquires meth in it's user friendly HCl salt form, but it looks like whoever cooked your stuff got lazy and didn't wanna convert the freebase into the salt.

http://www.chem.ualberta.ca/~orglabs/x61web/frames/frames_psl1_home.html
here's some university chem level help, that i'm sure you can find a slightly illiciet, yet practical utilization for.

on a side note.....
are you sure you didn't get sold hash/honey oil(as in the stuff that's super-concentrated pawt) instead of a stim freebase?

^^ unless it was mixed with something to give it consistency, then it's hardly likely to be freebase, as freebase meth is an oily liquid and quite uncommon.

Also, the poster mentions Australia, where "base" is a common term referring to impure meth, usually prepared from pseudo reduction. From forensic reports (personal communication), this is frequently done in an acidic medium and recrystallisation rarely performed.

Australia's Base = Methamphetamine but it is usually crappy byproducts and such. I have zero experience with Oz's MA; however, I recently saw an interview with Black Power and they were saying they kept the good clean white shit preferably done via an ether cleanup for themselves and friends, a the crappy impurity laden shit they gave names like Pink Rush or whatever they thought of at the time and sold it on. Pure MA will be nice clear crystal, if it is repeatedly recrystalised it forms wierd square type crystals with rounded edges (alcohol crystalised).

BASE in the UK = Amphetamine Sulphate and is STRONGER than normal sulphate. Comes as a putty, no idea why - maybe its a mix of sulphate and freebase oil....

the real freebase reacts with carbon dioxide and water in the air, and doesn't stay as freebase for long.
UK 'base' is just stronger amphetamine with less cut.

unless it was mixed with something to give it consistency, then it's hardly likely to be freebase, as freebase meth is an oily liquid and quite uncommon.

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And has a quite distinct smell (like geraniums that cats have pissed on! ). The gooeyness is most likely because you have a salt that absorbs water from the atmosphere (hygroscopic) , sometimes so much that it's able to dissolve in the water (deliquescent)

Many years ago (early 90's) EG used to sell quart. kg of amph sulphate/week and then this base came in and he was told to cut it with glucose. (can't remember the cut but it was sizeable). There's lots of debate as to what it is and why it is putty like, yeah could hygroscopic due to it being a HCl but woudn't it continue to absorb moisture until 'wet'? I don't see why it would just be purer sulphate as there would be no reason for it to be putty-like. If made into a sulphate a nice dry powder results (thus the reason for it being a sulphate and not a hydrochloride). I don't know, I guess the debate will continue...


IT's also noteworthy that base is water soluble...

fastandbulbous said:

And has a quite distinct smell (like geraniums that cats have pissed on! ).

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Now that describes it better than I ever could imagine a description!BLack cats.

Of course, the term 'base' means uncut and since its hygroscopic, it becomes a mush. Could it be methamphetamine sulfate? I think that the sulfate salt is hygroscopic, dunno about the hydrochloride though.

As an aside, has anyone considered a carboxylic acid of methamphetamine? May have lower BP for smooth smoke...

BTW, as F&B pointed out, freebase is a liquid at room temperatue. It's also a strong base so it will burn you. I don't think it's any use in thst form.

hugo24 said:

Now that describes it better than I ever could imagine a description!BLack cats.

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That might be because I grow geraniums that my cats seem to delight in pissing on!

Now I know where you store your stuff %)

If its meth, it might be P2P (1-phenyl-propan-2-one) meth, made via reductive amination of the above, that ketone has a funky, fruity ketonic smell.

If it is meth, is it a less cerebral high than usual? more bodily effects? could be in that case that is indeed prope dope, as reduction of P2P with the appropriate amine, gives the racemic amphetamine.

I've ever smoked amphetamine and ephedrone freebases.

Amphetamine has the tipical amine fish-smell but methCAT has the wonderful pistachio flavour !!!

I am inclined to think, that, since permanganate is used in many kitchen top
m-kat synths, that the pistacihio scent, is actually ephedrine getting oxidised to benzaldehyde.

Doesn't take a lot of benzaldehyde to stink out a room, I remember attempting a mono-nitration of toluene, using ammonium nitrate and 90% H2SO4, in the cold, once, and whilst I couldn't extract any BnCHO from teh neutralised rxn mix, I could sure smell it from the rest of the room.

^damn, I can't believe you are still alive. Good to see you, again.

EarlGrey said:

Many years ago (early 90's) EG used to sell quart. kg of amph sulphate/week and then this base came in and he was told to cut it with glucose. (can't remember the cut but it was sizeable). There's lots of debate as to what it is and why it is putty like, yeah could hygroscopic due to it being a HCl but woudn't it continue to absorb moisture until 'wet'? I don't see why it would just be purer sulphate as there would be no reason for it to be putty-like. If made into a sulphate a nice dry powder results (thus the reason for it being a sulphate and not a hydrochloride). I don't know, I guess the debate will continue...


IT's also noteworthy that base is water soluble...

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can't be bothered to answer every comment here. So chose at random. The smelly is just free radical methamphetamine base that's been stomped on. Hasn't been salted or anything. Its a suezy reduction oil. This is fact. So just think of it as ice that never got turned into a crystal and is still full of crap. Its like when the ice is made but not salted enough and not washed enough go smell it.. It will smell exactly like your yellow goey/speed/gas/gack.. Yeah. As for the smell I think google referred to it as a sweet cleaning product..? Or a slight fishyness to it. As for amphetamine sulfate it is made from p2p and is crap. It smells different to what your talking about and its never any good like under 50%. Sorted.