NEWS: Herald-Sun 14 Feb 05: Age raise a sobering thought

Age raise a sobering thought
Liam Houlihan, youth reporter
14feb05

YOUNG adults may have to trade pub crawls and drinking games for cups of tea and stamp collecting if a push to raise the drinking age to 21 comes to fruition.

A new study to be released in Melbourne next week claims growing youth binge drinking and alcoholism could be curbed by making 21 the minimum age to buy and drink alcohol.

If put into practice, those aged 18 to 20 who enjoy a legal drink would be fined for indulging in a tipple.

The study's authors argue alcohol-related harm has increased in Australia ever since the drinking age was lowered from 21 to 18.

By contrast, the US -- which raised its minimum drinking age from 18 to 21 at the time we lowered ours -- has had lower youth drinking rates every year since.

The push to get under-21s back on the wagon comes as new research shows one in four 13 and 14-year-olds drink with some developing alcohol dependency as early as 17.

The belief that giving children alcohol in moderation will prevent them binge drinking later in life has also been debunked by recent research.

"Drinking in the 12 to 15 age group has constantly increased during the nineties," said Dr John Toumbourou, a Melbourne University professor of youth psychology who co-authored the three-year study. "We now also have the largest cohort of young women drinkers we've ever had in history.

"The health, social and policing costs from alcohol-related vehicle accidents, injuries and deaths justify a change on a pure cost-benefit analysis."

He said after tobacco, alcohol was the greatest contributor to preventable harm in Australian society, but that excessive consumption had become acceptable.

"It is unimaginable that young people would not binge drink now. We have begun to see dubious institutions like schoolies as an Australian tradition."

Any plan to raise the drinking age is unlikely to be popular among the alcohol industry and the 18 to 20-year-olds who face being untimely yanked from bar stools and bottleshops.

Dr Toumbourou said the proposal had not so far attracted any political support, but he was hopeful this month's presentation could spark a necessary debate about the drinking age.

Findings of the study -- Preventing Harmful Substance Use: The Evidence Base For Policy And Practice -- will be presented at Thinking-Drinking, an international conference on alcohol on February 21.

From: http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,12239371%5E2862,00.html

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What do you think? 18 versus 21. As long as I can remember we've always had 18 years old to look forward to as coming-of-age as an adult. I had my 18th birthday party in the USA (holidays after finishing high school) and was highly miffed to have finally reached 18yo and then been knocked back for a drink in a bar overseas because their drinking age is 21!

Personally I don't think this will change anything with regard to drink driving in young people. In Vic., we already have in place a system that in my opinion is very sensible. You turn 18 years old, and are legally allowed to drive, or drink, separately for three years before being allowed to legally combine the two activities at any level. After age 21, you can only legally drink and drive up to 0.05% blood-alcohol concentration, and this law holds for all the rest of your driving career.

Regardless of the driving aspect, would this 3 year age hike really translate into any solution to the problem of binge drinking in children under 18 (or the problem group aged between 12-15 as cited in this article - compared to my previous post in this thread where it is stated that drinkers in their 20s are considered to be most likely to drink to excess -- I might merge these threads later)? Children aren't blind to the actions of their parents and other adults while they're growing up, nor are they immune to encouragement from their peers. We already encourage alcohol overdose in our society on any special occasion (in my opinion), why would this change by restricting alcohol sale to 21 year olds instead of 18 year olds?

On the other side, raising the taxes on alcohol causes prices to go up, so either the drinks get more expensive, or to maintain sales the companies reduce the price by lowering alcohol content slightly (many "heavy" beers have been reduced in the last 5 years by up to 1.5% alc/vol, down to around 4%). Reducing the alcohol content of ready-to-drink (RTD) premixed spirits has been suggested in NSW. Raising the age limit on drinking is another suggestion. Sales of alcohol 'essence' have been restricted following a death. These things amount to demand and supply reduction, while the widespread advertising campaigns have for years been advocating moderation and harm reduction along a number of avenues (both alcohol/driving related, and solely alcohol related harms).

Maybe the solution they're after will combine a larger number of approaches to making alcohol less attractive to young people, but I think in a lot of ways the message is confounded by the reality people experience: that an (1) alcohol binge doesn't necessarily have to ruin your life. So people take measures to avoid driving drunk, allow a day or two of recovery after celebrating important events where one would be expected to binge drink, etc., and in practising such harm reduction avoid developing a negative attitude toward alcohol in general.

It's taken over thirty years for our society to fully embrace alcohol into our lives at every possible occasion. Unless alcohol-induced liver cancer (or similar) and large "No Drinking" signs start appearing everywhere you look and the cost of alcohol doesn't go through the roof, I can't see a reversal in the societys perception of alcohol happening in the next thirty.

BigTrancer

i don't think it would make a difference, underage people are still going to be drinking, regardless of the age limits
it's just gonna increase the underage gap

I think whatever the age it is incerdibly stupid to hand out licences to drive at the same time as licences to drin... Either change the age you get your P's to 16 or raise the age you can drink to 21, either or, the current system is daqmned stupid imo.

I don't think changing the age limit will have any significant impact. THe main reason we have the situation we do with alcohol is because drunkeness is not only socially accpetable, but in some circumstances actively encouraged. To decrease the negative impacts of alcohol I think you need to address this social accpetance directly. In the past acts like excessive drunkeness (and other negative behaviours) had a direct consequence in that you were looked down on. Social sanction is a powerful force - if we want people to drink responsibly it must become not ok to be binged underage drinking. Just my view anyway

I imagine that raising the legal drinking age will stop about as many underage drinkers as prohibition has stopped drug use. In SA you only need to be 16.5 to get your P's, but that hardly stops drink driving amongst teens. Teenagers are always going to drink, as long as its readily available, regardless of wether they themselves are legally allowed to purchase it. Many young people just want to get 'fucked up' and since alcohol is available everywhere, this is usually their first preference. I cant imagine much that would change this, maybe legalising other drugs but then thats really only shifting the problem. Still, i'd much rather be around a bunch of baked or peaking teenagers than a whole lot of pissheads, simply due to the nature of an alcohol intoxication.

1. drinking is fun
2. drink driving is iresponsible
3. drinking to exess over prolonged periods is unhealthy physicaly and psycologicaly..

4. these points should be hammerd into ppls minds from an early age. its no wonder rebelius teens wanna get pissed.. its somthing old ppl tell them not to do AND its fun.. all the happy healthy harald crap that only tells u only the negatives of drugs, it is stupid and misrepresents drugs so when a young person does try for the first time they are really blown away by how much more fun it is than the liver problems and dizzyness they were told about and were expecting.


the best way to do these things is to give an honest balanced view of what drugs do and what they r capable of doing in unhealthy quantitys and make this information freely avalable and leave the decision of actualy taking these substances to the ppl them selves... we r not stupid and dont need big brother to hold our hand.. i think most the ppl here realise that drugs have 2... 1 best avoided education will make more ppl aware.. prohibition will make more ppl curious

eg. cannabis is legal (or to that effect) in holland .. and they're % of young ppl that smoke it is very low compaird to countrys where it is illegal.. its seems its uncool over there.. to the youth.. if u wanna make it less apealing to a demografic which is by nature rebelious dont dangle a big "dont drink me or else" sign infront of it.
i know i mistly talked about substances in general but i think it relates to this too. either way i think freedom of informed choice is the only effective and fair method..

METAL UP YOUR ASSS RRRROOOAAAAARRRR!!!!!!

With alcohol so socially acceptable changing the drinking age will make no imediate difference in my eyes without a social change as well. My parents threw me a party at 17 and alchohol was around, I doubt I'm the only one. Plus Australians are known for their binge drinking

More responsible attitudes towards alcohol would take a massive change, nothing that will happen quickly.

Why not just change the age you can get your license to 21, young people are the worst drivers so the simplest thing to do is not let them drive at all. More chance a 16 year old is going to have a few illegal beers than drive without a license, plus without a license it's probably harder to get alcohol

Should we be so surprised after we gave carte blanche to the liquor companies to swill their booze into our stupid minds. They're far too entrenched, like the tobacco companies, and certainly too well integrated into other legitimate business to ever be forced to stop the methods to which they convince children to drink.

There are so many drinks on the market that are so aimed at under 18s - the top one being the devils own - "passion pop". Seriously when was the last time anyone actually purchased this for someone over 18?

Just as the tobacco companies tried to make us think our habits were purely choice (and how wrong were we), we're lead to believe the same yet aren't we constantly told that alcoholism is in fact a disease.

What happened? Certainly our parents weren't under the same marketing and advertising pressure we are. Its every where to which kids have access to, its on public spaces, magazines, TV, its holds an almost mystical reverence in sporting occasions and our parents constantly consume the stuff.

Then we have the pubs, evil organizations who never ever obey sensible drinking laws. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy an night out but its just too easy to get fucked up on grog, and do it again the next night. Fuck having nurofens + so easily is bad enough.

Take out the advertising, restrict supply and substitute with a less harmful substance, invest heavily in harm-minimisation programs, early schooling and cease this bullshit moralistic, yet ultimately hypocritical approach that the government and conservative charities are taking (and failing miserably).

Isn't it ironic that alcoholism is considered a health issue yet any other drug is classified as a criminal matter.

As long as it doesn't come in before June 28th, no worries.

Mind you, I dont drink, but I do like gambling, adult raves and going to the pub to socialise and this would stop me doing those things. Shelve it for 6 months then steam ahead.

There is nothing more annoying then abusive, slobbering 18 year old drunk scumfucks, and me with no ammo left.

In the past acts like excessive drunkeness (and other negative behaviours) had a direct consequence in that you were looked down on.

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It was like that with my parents and their friends. While drinking, one was encouraged to get excited, noisy, and even to a degree passionately aggressive, but he or she could never get wobbly or have slurred speech.

If this occurred it was said the person "couldn't hold their liquor". It was considered unsocial and unsavory. Even worse - a weakness.

While my parents did consume alcohol on almost every social occasion involving other adults, I only ever recall seeing one or two of my parents friends get wobbly. Mum would often explain someone's exclusion to the group as being due to their tendency to drink too much too soon.

But just as frowned upon was the 2 pot screamer. The bottom line was simply if you can't hold your liquor - don't drink. And many of my parents friends were non-drinkers. They all got along fine, probably because the drinkers weren't drunks.

The "Perfect Martini" is not a myth and it's deeper meaning can be applied to any alcohol beverage.

A Perfect Martini
is a blend of such fine proportions that you are consumed by its ultimate reality. A slow sip sends you into a slippery, viscous utopia. At times it is reminiscent of the best summer you've ever had, and on other occassions it validates your adulthood like nothing else can. The Martini is viewed as a drink of unique power, yet it is no more powerful than any other drink containing the same amount of alcohol.

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from here


I doubt changing the drinking age would accomplish much - at least in the short term. It may even make things worse, as almost any 15 year old can whip up a brew. The world is certainly different now to the time when legislation was altered in both countries to set the current drinking age limits.

What's more is the youth culture of both countries is different. While I don't agree with the idea of young people drinking, it has always and will always occur. Making it an illegal act for 3 extra years will only land more young people in hot water IMO. While there would be some benefits from raising the drinking age, I feel the problems which would initially surface would completely outweigh these gains. We certainly wouldn't want to spawn a culture of illegal hooch. There's already a reasonable market for illegal booze in Aus. Just ask the home brew suppliers how many of their customers have bought more stills than they have fingers

While many of us might not see this, it does go on. And with unregulated manufacture of booze, like drugs there will be elements of risk. Blindness from methanol wouldn't be appealing to anyone.

Education, education, education. Will be the only thing that will lower underage and binge drinking.

In society's where drinking is like a national sport, most participants have started by around the age of 16. This has been the same for generations, and will probably continue as long as alcohol remains an intregal part of our (and others) culture.

Changing the age of when one can drink legally will do nothing to change the age of which most seem to start drinking nor will it affect the growing trend for binge drinking.

Why not change the drinking age to 19... that would preferable.

Thoough from what I know in America, the drinking age does little to curb college drinking parties and other underage drinking.

hmm, ok, I think this is a backwards step for Australia, following America again. The legal age of 21 in America may have put back the amount of drinking that goes on but look how so many have turned to other drugs. I hear it's easier to get cocaine and heroin then it is to get alcohol. Just because there is a law in place has never altered peoples decisions to alter concioussness.

I don't see this as a smart move as once I was 18 I was actually able to go clubbing (without drinking) and have a good time. I am happy I can go into 18 plus events act maturely and even be sober from all drugs. I really don't care about being banned from drinking, its not like it'll stop me from drinking, I do however mind the restrictions that will be placed on clubs, raves, events etc.

There shoudln't be laws placed on maturity.

I agree with what everyone said, we need education and embarrising yourself in public under the influence of alcohol should not be encouraged in the way undergoing self actualisation and 'spiritual' trips under the influence of psychadelics is despised.

More maturity and education please. Less ignorance and confinement thanks

*sings..."born in the usa"*

what does it matter? 12 year olds can get their hands on cigarettes, i'm sure 18 year olds are gonna have no trouble getting their hands on alcohol. i fucking hate the direction this country is headed in.

i can't remember which comedian said this, probably hicks or murphy, "you can send a man off to die in some war, come back with his legs missing, and he can't even get drunk".

fuck you, you conservative fucks who have wasted no time in trying to mould this country into smallville usa since the recent election. video games, abortion, and now this. preventing drug companies sponsoring our cricket team would have more impact on reducing underage drinking than raising the legal age a few years.

If they want to partially fix this country I think they need to ban the media. Ban advertisements and ban all the manipulation involved with it. This is what people are really addicted to, its what brings so many down, struggling to keep up. Fuck it, lets all self medicate with alcohol, all the pretty people on TV do that.

Hey the news even advertised alcohol while they appear to say its bad they have a liqour store, shouting "look at how much some australians drink..." He opens his arms up almost exactly like an advertisement. Clearly if your not drinking 1000+ litres or whatever it was, your in the clear to drink more.. So go ahead, follow this as an example that you can buy more alcohol.

Why must our country use fear to control people? I wonder what would happen if they legalised alternatives? Why can't people see that laws hardly do anything, they just make people more afraid. Hey wouldn't it be great if the government didn't use laws to try to "medicate" australia. When it partially just means people are gonna try to self medicate some way else.

Hey maybe they should start making other laws, You can only turn 21 if your attractive, you can only turn 21 if you've had plastic surgery, you 21 if you seperate the rich from the poor even further.
Hey, it'll get rid of all the ugly people and hey while we are at it lets shoot all the underperformers to. A world without drop outs, people to afraid to drop out of school because of fear?

21 is a bit on the high end, to say the least. It's just going to encourage more drinking at house parties instead of pubs due to the age limit. From experience, that is where binge drinking gets out of hand - at a private residence.

Drinking in public places usually ensures that some form of restraint is maintained, while in a private house party, everyone would get shitfaced. It won't make a difference, they're going to get alcohol anyway, an older friend, an older sibling etc.

Due to the raised drinking age, the under 21s cannot get into public drinking areas, and private parties would become the norm, at least that's what happened when I was underaged.

That's where the beer bongs and binge drinking really starts in earnest - in private venues, and that can lead to a lot of problems, the least of which is the mother of all headaches the next day.

BigTrancer said:

It's taken over thirty years for our society to fully embrace alcohol into our lives at every possible occasion. Unless alcohol-induced liver cancer (or similar) and large "No Drinking" signs start appearing everywhere you look and the cost of alcohol doesn't go through the roof, I can't see a reversal in the societys perception of alcohol happening in the next thirty.

BigTrancer [/B]

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This is in fact quite precisely what we have done in NZ...it is now a criminal offence to drink anywhere where there is a liquour ban in place. This includes all Auckland beaches, parks, public facilities and public areas, the entire central business district and also vast swathes of other areas including some pretty random places.

It is enforced fairly ruthlessly - I have now had 2 of my friends use their diversions on this one...Is this changing societies perception of alcohol use? No...Is it curbing public drunkeness? Perhaps, but to a very small degree...its certainly making people drinking in public a hell of a lot more shifty though.

Im personally of the opinion that alcohol is one of the most harmful drugs available to anybody. It causes more violence (domestic or otherwise), more mental illness, more deaths on the roads and more random disorder than probably all other illicit drugs put together. The only reason it is legal is tradition and that fine line between social acceptability and otherwise - this is of course generally based on what the law of the land is.

I would have no problem whatsoever with the age going back up to 21 as I am 22, but do I think its a good idea? Not really...as a site dedicated to harm reduction not blanket bans you guys should be up for greater public education, the maintenance of the age of consent being 18 for as much as possible, and greater fines and other impositions (possibly criminal)for those in breach of the basic standards of sale restrictions.

This shouldn't be about forcing younguns to stop binge drinking. It should be about teaching them why binge drinking is going to fuck up their lives as well as everybody elses. There is certainly enough anecdotal evidence in even the smallest communities to get through to a hell of a lot of younguns if presented correctly.

I personally started binge drinkigna t school and on weekends when I was 11, and am I a binge drinker now? Hell yes...about once a month I go out and get hammered, otherwise I might MAYBE have the occaisional quiet drink....Early drinking most certainly does not always equate to problems with alcoholism in later life.

Ban the substance all together and legalise cannabis