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starcraft
31-12-2004, 09:57
I'm wondering for personal experience which one is more euphoric? which one has a stronger depressant effect? I know it really varies from dose and person, but I'm wondering from opinion. One friend told me codeine is better than hydrocodone, and another said codiene is like half of the effect of hydrocodone.

K'dOUTinAZ
31-12-2004, 10:24
Hydrocodone is more potent
Hydrocodone is more euphoric
Hydrocodone is a better drug
Codeine doesn't even compare to hydrocodone

....And you will hear a long echo

Rosclot
31-12-2004, 17:20
echo..echo..echo..echo..............

FareWellToFashion
31-12-2004, 21:36
Hydrocodone isnt even comparable to codiene. Codienes effects (if any) are worthless

thursday
01-01-2005, 00:19
while hydrocodone is much more potent than codeine, codeine certainly isn't worthless, far from it actually. if you CWE around 300mg of codeine and drink it all at once along with some anti-histamines you will get a very enjoyable high out of it.

ofcourse with hydrocodone you only need about 60~70mg to get roughly the same effect.

i definitely wouldn't pay more than $.75 for a T3 whereas i'd be willing to pay up to $3 for norcos or lortabs.

Bradshaw2727
01-01-2005, 01:12
Also, with codeine, you can only take so much before your body stops metabolizing it (400mg I think?). With hydrocodone, I don't think there is a peak dosage. Someone correct me if I am wrong please.

toolazy2think
01-01-2005, 01:14
hydrocodone is far superior, with less side effects IMO

not to say codiene is at all worthless, if I had nothing else I certainly woudlnt turn it down.

thursday
01-01-2005, 01:30
i've never heard of codeine having a specific max dosage. it does release a lot more histamines than other opiates and will make you swell up and turn red and itch like crazy if you take a lot of it without any anti-histamines. but if you take a benadryl before hand that shouldn't be a problem.

blase deviant
01-01-2005, 03:05
How does hydrocodone compare to dihydrocodeine?

Hydrocodone, IMO, is a stronger buzz, more foggy, whereas dihydro seems to be more... morphine-like.

Dihydro + benzos changes the buzz to feel more like what hydro would feel like. Dihydro never gives me that 'swimming in water' feel.

This post is a bunch of nonsensical BS and doesn't even make sense to me. Maybe someone else can say what I mean/am trying to say.

therealbeats
01-01-2005, 05:46
IMO, Codeine is defintely not worthless, but Hydro is superior.

It's more potent, better effects, generally just better. But Codeine has effects. And while I used to be sure about the 400mg ceiling on codeine, I'm not so sure anymore.

A friend of mine takes 800mg a hit, and goes into cod. withdrawls if he takes just 400mg. And It certainly doesn't appear psychosomatic.

rivered1
01-01-2005, 07:48
I find codeine only a step or two above tylenol in terms of recreational value.

(Yes I'm aware tylenol has no recreation value.)

karloff123
03-01-2005, 08:26
Why defend codeine? The truth of the matter is codeine is bunk and will always be bunk.....the only thing lower is darvon, and that's scrapping the bottom of the barrel

Pingu
03-01-2005, 15:35
I tried codeine once (can't remember the dose, someone told me it was 'average', might have been 300mg), and all that happened was I had bad chest pains, ah well.

K'dOUTinAZ
03-01-2005, 20:36
This would be the chart for hydrocodone and the following opioids/opiates in order of potency...(IMO)

1. Hydrocodone
2. Buprenorphine
3. Dihydrocodeine
4. Codeine
5. Propoxyphene
6. Tramadol

ka3ajm
04-01-2005, 00:58
Hydrocodone is like hard liquor, while Codeine is like beer and wine.

Hydros only tend to give you a "clouded-type mental buzz". But I've have taken 170mg of codeine (now) and codeine seems to have a bit more of a giddy-euphoric type effect in my opinion. But the truth is, Codeine is VERY VERY weak.

And the main problem with it, is that its not proportional like hydros are. I could take ONE 10mg/325mg (Norco) tablet, and get a nice decent buzz from it. While codeine you have to take literally a handful to get you a decent high.

thursday
04-01-2005, 02:17
Originally posted by karloff123
Why defend codeine? The truth of the matter is codeine is bunk and will always be bunk.....the only thing lower is darvon, and that's scrapping the bottom of the barrel

maybe you haven't tried a high enough dosage of codeine, but that doesn't necessarily make codeine bunk. i used to think codeine was worthless too. i would pop about 10 T3s at a time and just get kinda sick from all the tylenol and only feel slightly sedated from the codeine.

however, once i started cold water extracting the T3's i found that the same 10 T3's would get me as high as taking probably 6 or 7 normal strength vicodins. so the problem isn't really that codeine is worthless, just that the most widely available preparations(T2, T3) have too little codeine in them and way too much tylenol. they also take a lot longer for your stomache to dissolve and absorb if you swallow them whole. codeine cough syrups are actually quite enjoyable since it is in liquid form and absorbs very readily and rapidly into your body.

and yes, i have tried more potent opiates like hydrocodone, morphine, heroin, oxycodone, buprenorphine, and fentanyl. and even then i still consider a good dose of codeine to be worthwhile. it's all about how much you take and how you prepare it for ingestion. just because something is much weaker doesn't mean it's worthless. it just means you have to take a lot more and make sure your body is ready to absorb it all at once without taking in too much tylenol.

thursday
04-01-2005, 02:23
Originally posted by K'dOUTinAZ
This would be the chart for hydrocodone and the following opioids/opiates in order of potency...(IMO)

1. Hydrocodone
2. Buprenorphine
3. Dihydrocodeine
4. Codeine
5. Propoxyphene
6. Tramadol

i think buprenorphine should probably come before hydrocodone since about 800mcg of bup fucks me up as much as say 30mg of hydorcodone. although bup is a partial opiate, but i could never really tell the difference.

K'dOUTinAZ
04-01-2005, 02:29
I wouldn't say that codeine is bunk either, it may be a weak opiate but you can still get off on it, especially if you are new to opiates/opioids or if your tolerance isn't that high. However, for someone who has been using opiates for awhile or have a moderate tolerance, more than likely are going to need a dose above 300mg to get off. While at the same time that same person would get higher at a 40mg dose of hydrocodone. If I were not on methadone and were to take a dose somewhere around 450mg I would be able to catch a nice buzz (considering my tolerance). So, if there is any chance of me being able to get high off something, than I wouldn't call it bunk. To me something like propoxyphene or tramadol I would call bunk because I straight don't enjoy them and can't catch a buzz.

karloff123
04-01-2005, 03:11
The term "bunk" may be to harsh for some and not harsh enough for others....its really all realitive anyhow.....your gold may be another person's garbage. I just like to take my dope without alot of complications....no cold water extractions....no buying 15 pills to catch a minor buzz.....not to mention the menace of tylenol that goes along with those 10-15 pills.......using a term from the master "K" IMHO.....codeine is and always will be......bunk

K'dOUTinAZ
04-01-2005, 04:22
Originally posted by thursday
i think buprenorphine should probably come before hydrocodone since about 800mcg of bup fucks me up as much as say 30mg of hydorcodone. although bup is a partial opiate, but i could never really tell the difference.

Thats your opinion. I enjoy hydrocodone much more than buprenorphine. However, I enjoy IV buprenorphine over hydrocodone but then again, if I could find pure hydrocodone powder than I would enjoy IV hydrocodone over IV buprenorphine. Anyway, I'll take hydrocodone over buprenorphine anyday

psychetool
04-01-2005, 04:29
IMO buprenorphine is much stronger then hydro...

I am effected by realtivly low amounts of hydro though, today I took 15mg and am feeling on top of the world. Of course no intense opiate high, but I can definitly tell that i'm in a calmer and opiated state of mind.

I'd take 10mg of hydro over 200mg of codeine anyday.

K'dOUTinAZ
04-01-2005, 04:36
From what I have read around BL I think that the majority of people enjoy buprenorphine over hydrocodone. For some reason, I would rather have a heavty dose of hydrocodone.

soundphaRm
04-01-2005, 04:54
Gotta' agree with K'dOut on this one...
The more Mu the better...;)

thursday
04-01-2005, 06:05
well, thing is, while buprenorphine is extremely potent, probably closer to fentanyl in strength than hydrocodone, buprenorphine is a partial opiate and doesn't activate all the opioid receptors that hydrocodone and other opiates do. for that reason, it may not be as recreational for some as for others.

personally, i prefer hydrocodone for recreation over bupe because it's very easy for me to overshoot with buprenorphine and get nauseous from it. in fact, i have never gotten nauseous off of hydrocodone even when taking around 100mg, which is about 60mg more than what i normally take at a time. however, for maintenance buprenorphine is perfect since it's much cheaper, and it lasts for about 8 hours whereas hydrocodone only lasts for about 4 to 5 hours.

thursday
04-01-2005, 06:12
Originally posted by karloff123
The term "bunk" may be to harsh for some and not harsh enough for others....its really all realitive anyhow.....your gold may be another person's garbage. I just like to take my dope without alot of complications....no cold water extractions....no buying 15 pills to catch a minor buzz.....not to mention the menace of tylenol that goes along with those 10-15 pills.......using a term from the master "K" IMHO.....codeine is and always will be......bunk

no one is claiming codeine is gold, but i think if you are talking about codeine the chemical rather than specific preparations such as T2 or T3 then codeine is still a very viable recreational opiate.

although it does release a lot of histamines, and the most common preparations are a bit more difficult to abuse, if you take the time to extract the codeine, or if you just get ahold of codeine cough syrup, i guarantee you will be able to get just as much euphoria from the codeine as you could from hydrocodone. in fact, for recreational purposes i would prefer to CWE some T3s over any amount of buprenorphine simply because the codeine high feels more like a hydrocodone/oc/morphine high than buprenorphine does.

a lot of people take 1 or 2 normal strength vicodins at a time and just based on that consider hydrocodone to be worthless as well. that is a premature judgement imho. if you haven't tried CWE with 300+mg of codeine or atleast try ~300mg of codeine cough syrup, then you are prematurely judging codeine to be bunk.

also if you've just been popping 10-15 T3's and have been getting sick from all the tylenol because you aren't taking the time to do some harm reduction by removing some of the apap, then your assessment of "codeine" itself is going to be somewhat problematic.

ka3ajm
04-01-2005, 06:36
But thats not really the point here you guys..... sorry.

Let me explain something here to you all. Ok, the main problem with Codeine whether its T3s or T4s or a stand-alone codeine, these meds are not proportioned the correct way. Codeine sucks, yes., because first of all, for example:

Lets say I have a bottle of 30 tabs of T4s and 30 tabs of Norcos (which are 10mg/325mg PER TABLET!!!!!). Now if I were to take 5 60mg codeine pills (T4s) which equals to be=300mg codeine, then this means I would have 25 pills left out of the whole damn bottle while if I were to take ONE Norco tab which contains 10mg hydrocodone than of course the Norco would be still be an affordable "high" than codeine and of course I would still have 29 left out of the whole bottle instead of 25 or something like that. Im just using 30 as an example. Or what if someone got a hold of 10 pills of T4s??? So, if he or she needs 300mg to get a nice decent buzz than thats 5 left instead of 9 left.

Hydrocodones are proportioned correctly to get a decent buzz as far as dosage versus the buzz thing here. Codeine is like water-downed beer compared to Hydrocodones.

therealbeats
04-01-2005, 06:39
1 Noroc pill gets you going?

Sheesh, Codeine is a volatile topic on these boards. some people LIKE IT. some ALOT. Some HATE IT and do everything within their power to make sure nobody, not nobody no fucking how has a good time expierimenting with opiates because it isn't the best opiate, or their opiate, and the opiate their grandpappy uses.

Different strokes you guys...

ka3ajm
04-01-2005, 06:52
Yes.

10mg of hydro will get me buzzed, maybe not that much but I enjoy it. Hey, its better than ending up in the hospital with respiratory depression and a syringe of Naloxone sticking up my arms:p

therealbeats
04-01-2005, 06:55
Then what are you doing knocking Codeine?

I don't mean any of this or my above post as a flame, just trying to get a point across.

ka3ajm
04-01-2005, 07:31
Well, abviously 10mg of hydro is much much more stronger than T4s. Actually Im up to 90mg codeine which in my opinion is equal to Vicodin ES (7.5mg hydro) as far as the buzz goes.

thursday
04-01-2005, 08:19
if you can get off on 10mg of hydrocodone, then codeine probably isn't too weak for your needs. and once again you're still talking about the preparations available not the actual drug.

there ARE codeine syrups out there where you can drink half a bottle and get a pretty good buzz off of it or drink the whole damn bottle and get a REALLY good high from it.

and if they made 1mg hydrocodone tablets that still wouldn't make hydrocodone worthless.

i would take 300mg of codeine over 15 or even 20mg of hydrocodone if they were offered to me at the same price. just take their respective medd factors into account when you compare the price and quantity.

so who's missing the point? you're still talking about specific preparations not the actual drug. obviously a bottle of T3 isn't gonna cost as much as a bottle of norcos, so what if you don't get as many doses out of a bottle of T3s. is the oxycodone in percocets inferior to that in OC80s just because you can get more doses out of a bottle of OC80s than you can out of a bottle of percocets?

soundphaRm
04-01-2005, 09:36
Psst...hey guys/gals...I like them both....(look quick as soundphaRm runs off with your stash of T4's)...8o

K'dOUTinAZ
04-01-2005, 19:42
Originally posted by thursday
well, thing is, while buprenorphine is extremely potent, probably closer to fentanyl in strength than hydrocodone, buprenorphine is a partial opiate and doesn't activate all the opioid receptors that hydrocodone and other opiates do. for that reason, it may not be as recreational for some as for others.

personally, i prefer hydrocodone for recreation over bupe because it's very easy for me to overshoot with buprenorphine and get nauseous from it. in fact, i have never gotten nauseous off of hydrocodone even when taking around 100mg, which is about 60mg more than what i normally take at a time. however, for maintenance buprenorphine is perfect since it's much cheaper, and it lasts for about 8 hours whereas hydrocodone only lasts for about 4 to 5 hours.

Wait a second...

Thursday
i think buprenorphine should probably come before hydrocodone since about 800mcg of bup fucks me up as much as say 30mg of hydorcodone. although bup is a partial opiate, but i could never really tell the difference.

What made you change your mind?

thursday
04-01-2005, 21:56
i didn't change my mind. i'm just making a distinction between the quality of the high and the potency. buprenorphine is still far more potent than hydrocodone, but the hydrocodone high has certain qualities that makes it preferable for recreational use.

soundphaRm
04-01-2005, 23:29
Those yummy Mu qualities...bupe has them, too, but bupe is a partial agonist/antagonist, where hydrocodone is not...that's probably the recreational effects you're speaking of...:\

K'dOUTinAZ
04-01-2005, 23:44
Originally posted by thursday
i didn't change my mind. i'm just making a distinction between the quality of the high and the potency. buprenorphine is still far more potent than hydrocodone, but the hydrocodone high has certain qualities that makes it preferable for recreational use.

GOT'cha

SnatchMaster
08-01-2005, 14:38
Well, HYDROcodone does not exist in Australia(We have OXYcodone though), a small amount of hydrocodone was in a cough syrup here in oz but they discontinued it back in 1998. So I can't compare codeine to hydrocodone.

Perhaps Codeine is considered "bunk" to people here that have a high tolerance to opiates/opiods and therfor cannot get off on codeine(as K'doutinAZ metioned). Maybe they're one of the 7% of people that are lacking the enzyme to convert codeine to morphine, maybe they get a severe histamine reaction to it they can't stand and/or get nauseous from it...

For opiate virgins though, codeine should provide you with a very nice high. I CWE no less then 300mg codeine and enjoy the effects very much so :) I don't get a bad histamine reaction nor do i get naseous from it. Only problem with codeine is that the main high wears off too soon...

BingeBoy
09-01-2005, 15:55
^^
yup I only feel real good on 300 mg for about 2 hours after that I get itchy and usually start smoking joints till I fall asleep.

s3v3r3d&s7on3d
09-01-2005, 18:57
HYDROCODONE!

K'dOUTinAZ
09-01-2005, 22:03
Originally posted by SnatchMaster
Perhaps Codeine is considered "bunk" to people here that have a high tolerance to opiates/opiods and therfor cannot get off on codeine(as K'doutinAZ metioned). Maybe they're one of the 7% of people that are lacking the enzyme to convert codeine to morphine, maybe they get a severe histamine reaction to it they can't stand and/or get nauseous from it...

Umm..no, that ain't the reason at all, if hydrocodone was legal where you lived you would know what we mean. Codeine works for me (and speaking for others) but it sucks when compared to another opioid/opiate. Some of us have much larger tolerances and codeine just won't cut it. It has nothing to do with the lacking enzyme (well, maybe some), histamine reaction, or the nausea (many other opioids produce the same side effects), its just that codeine is a weak opiate. Propoxyphene would probabaly be the only opioid weaker. Not counting Tramadol as a true opioid.

But as I mentioned earlier, codeine is still a valuable opiate for newbies and even has the potential to give off a nice buzz with those with tolerances, just in very large doses. In fact codeine has great purpose for those that don't want to get into the harder stuff. Its a good starting tool on the opioid chart.

Tialis
09-01-2005, 22:08
For me codeine is so potent that I can get a good nod with about 400mg.

Bad_Boy_Blue
09-01-2005, 22:41
Originally posted by Tialis
For me codeine is so potent that I can get a good nod with about 400mg.

Only 400mg codeine makes you nod? Do you use this in conjunction with any other CNS depressants?

K'dOUTinAZ
09-01-2005, 23:07
I would need something around 450mg of codeine to even catch a decent nod so I believe what Tialis claims. I don't know his tolerance or anything but with my tolerance, no dose of codeine is going to give me a "potent nod".

thursday
10-01-2005, 00:51
i dont want to keep beating a dead horse, but i'm going to re-iterate this:

codeine triggers nearly all the same opioid receptors as hydrocodone, it's just not as potent. qualitatively, they are equals except for the larger amount of histamines that codeine release. that can be neglected if u take an anti-histamine before hand.

aside from that--yes, the most common codeine preparations are T3's which contain very little codeine. that means you need to take a grip of them, but codeine is still a fully euphoric opiate. there are plenty of other recreational drugs out there that require dosages of 300mg or more, such as mushrooms, marijuana, alcohol, dxm, ketamine, mescaline, and the list goes on and on.

codeine is in no way in the same class as say tramadol. in fact, qualitatively it's a much more viable recreational opiate than buprenorphine and other partial opioid agonists. the codeine high is essentially the same as a morphine high because codeine is converted into morphine in the brain.

to me codeine preparations are simply smaller units of morphine. x amount of codeine is basically the same thing as 1/6th that amount of morphine. and what more, just because the perparations are designed to be minute oral dosages usually mixed with other substances that can lead to overdose before achieving the recreational dosage, people just give the shit away like it's aspirin. but since cold-water-extractions are so simple to perform and the drug is so widely available and cheap, it's actually a very viable source of a cheap solid opiate high if you know what you're doing and as long as you don't have a ridiculously high tolerance.

BingeBoy
10-01-2005, 01:10
In france codeine is really great , 300 mg for 3,50 euro and the tablets are sugar coated .... yummm I mean isn't it great that the people who developed the medication actually took into consideration that most pills give a dirty sensation for the very short time they touch your tongue and they solved this by coating the pills with sugar?

h-90
10-01-2005, 09:13
Thursday: That's the greatest defense i've heard for Codeine.

SnatchMaster
10-01-2005, 11:04
Some of us have much larger tolerances and codeine just won't cut it. K'dOUT I mentioned that in my post, if for example someone has a quarter gram a day smack habit then yeah, codeine is just too weak to do anything. What I don't get here is why some people on here claim codeine to be a waste of time yet these same people love Morphine.

About 10% of codeine is converted to Morphine if memory serves me correctly, so a 400mg hit of codeine is equivalent to 40mg of Morphine. It is a weaker opiate then hydrocodone, but I have read a few people on here that prefer a high dose of codeine compared to the equivalent dose of hydrocodone. Most like the Hydros better though. Anyway to the original poster, try both and see what you like better.

thursday
10-01-2005, 18:06
Originally posted by h-90
Thursday: That's the greatest defense i've heard for Codeine.
Thanks. I just think a lot of people haven't really given codeine a chance before writing it off as something worthless. I mean, most preparations are designed to discourage recreational use, but those measures are very easy to circumvent, and codeine is damn cheap in my experience.

K'dOUTinAZ
10-01-2005, 20:48
Originally posted by SnatchMaster
K'dOUT I mentioned that in my post, if for example someone has a quarter gram a day smack habit then yeah, codeine is just too weak to do anything. What I don't get here is why some people on here claim codeine to be a waste of time yet these same people love Morphine.

About 10% of codeine is converted to Morphine if memory serves me correctly, so a 400mg hit of codeine is equivalent to 40mg of Morphine. It is a weaker opiate then hydrocodone, but I have read a few people on here that prefer a high dose of codeine compared to the equivalent dose of hydrocodone. Most like the Hydros better though. Anyway to the original poster, try both and see what you like better.

Yes, I am aware of all the opioid/opiate chemistry, I have pages written about their chemistry, metabolites, contradictions, ect. etc. but I know what you are getting at. But you should know that not everyone who hates codeine likes morphine. I only enjoy intravenous morphine, not in oral preperations. Hydrocodone is slightly more potent than morphine in oral doses, this is only because morphine has a horrible oral bioavailability ( 35% ) Anyway, that is some good advice for the original poster. I understand what you are saying. Cool beans

digital_phreedom
11-01-2005, 16:53
well.. for someone with no tolerance.. even a few T3's can be enough for a good euphoric buzz.. so i don't know why everyone is so dismissive of codeine.. yeah hydrocodone kicks it's ass, but still..