Zyban - easier to get than Prozac

Good people of the world,
Most of you would be aware of the benefits in consuming Prozac - extended effect, less comedown and minimisation of post E emotional swings.
I obtained a script for the new anti-smoking pills, Zyban, a few weeks ago and did a little research into their affect. Zyban is also sold as an anti-depressant, under the name Wellbutrin. It functions as a Seratonin Uptake Inhibitor in the same way as Prozac.
Zyban is very easy to obtain a script for. All you need to do is tell your doctor you would like to try the new anti smoking pill Zyban and he/she will write a script; no questions asked (from my experience).
Happy Pillin'
Note: A seratonin uptake inhibitor fuctions by limiting the effect of the chemicals which the brain releases to 'mop up' the excess seratonin in the brain.

Most of you would be aware of the benefits in consuming Prozac - extended effect, less comedown and minimisation of post E emotional swings.

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er none of that has been proved.
the only thing that has been proved is that in test with monkeys, prozac was shown to eliminate neurological damage when taken within 6 to 8 hours of ingesting MDMA. no human trials have yet been done.
and where did you get the idea that it "extended (the) effect"? an ssri will lessen, and in some cases entirely mask, the positive effects of MDMA if it is already in someones system before they ingest MDMA.
this is why prozac is only being used some people as a post-load. there is some evidence that links constant use of an SSRI and use of MDMA to instances of serotonin syndrome.

John boy - I'm no doctor but as far as I understand it:
1. MDMA casuses the brain to release seratonin in excessive quantities.
2. MDMA wears off relatively quickly as the seratonin uptake chemicals clean up the excess.
3. Uptake inhibitor, hence slows the clean up?
Well - that was my rational for the comment.
As far as masking or lessoning the effect - from experience, I think not.
i have not tried Prozac and am not clinically depressed. Got the Zyban as an easy way to quit smoking (didn't work). Within one day of starting the treatmnent I felt like I was on speed and felt really positive about everything (even went for a jog for the first time in 4 years). That prompted me to look further into what the drug actually was.
I have always been able to control the negative comedown side fairly well anyhow, but I have noticed that the Zyban lessens the effect.

you are greatly simplifying the way it all works but you do have some bits right. and although i am not discounting your anecdotal personal experience, it is important to keep in mind the difference between that and scientific fact. also effects vary widely from one person to another. as someone who has read countless anecdotal reports here at Bluelight I can assure you that more people on SSRIs feel a diminishing of MDMAs effects than an extension.
for the best explanation of all this you should check out the slideshow at dancesafe:
http://dancesafe.org/slideshow/
it's long, but since it is such a complicated issue it deserves the attention.

Just as a point of interest, I went to the doctors to have a general chat regarding 5htp and L-Tryptophan. I'd mentioned that i would like to try either or, as i don't particulaly like taking conventional medicine (except where absolutely necessary), and the answer i got from the doc was that in her opinion, she doesn't like either of these tryptophans, as she believes that if you take either 5htp or L-TP all the time, then your brain would become dependant on these and actually stop making serotonin (which sorta makes sense), hence the S2 status.
The funny thing was, she was unprepared to give me a prescription of something that is taken from a plant, but here, try Prozac!!!!
...Wonder what pharmaceutical company she receives perks from????
So, actually if you wanted, prozac is VERY easy to get, just say that you are depressed.
Personally, i don't like the idea of taking prozac, i'd prefer to take St. Johns Wort which acts as an SSRI, as well as a great antioxidant, but hey, each to their own.

yes but St Johns Wort also acts as a mild MAOI, which (as far as i'm concerned) makes it a no no for mixing with MDMA.

Well, I'm only speaking from personal experience and experience from alot of friends, but before i had 5htp, i only took St Johns Wort, and i had no adverse effects from it. Actually, doctors and naturopaths are not totally sure whether St Johns wort is an SSRI or an MAOI, they are still conducting tests on it. I obtained this information only a couple of months back from my naturopath. Antother reason people are warned away from it is that because it acts as an antioxidant, it will flush any other medications or supplements out quicker. That's another reason why i chose to take it, it flushes MDMA from your sytem rather quickly. I also spoke to my naturopath about taking St Johns Wort in place of Prozac et all, and she stated that because it is not actually known whether it acts as a definite SSRI or an MAOI, that it should be relatively safe to take. Anyway, i've had NO problems with it, and neither have many of my friends who chose to avoid conventional chemicals when taking recreational chemicals. But, again, each to their own.
BTW, i've been taking St Johns Wort, for the past year after taking MDMA, with no adverse effects.
But i guess there is risk with alot of things, including taking MDMA...

kids kids,
when will youz' ever learn? (and thanks JB for tryin' to keep 'em on the right track). b4 making categorical statements, peeps, pls go to school and do your homework.
Antidepressants including SSRIs are for treating people with DEPRESSION, a serious disorder, not for prolonging/enhancing your high offa party favors. If they were, rest assured them marketing MBA boys would have your gullible souls chowin' the shit for breakfast ala Prozac for dogs (true!)
Neo, while postloading with only certain SSRI's may prevent neurotoxicity, all SSRI’s interfere with the euphoriant action of MDMA (clinical, anecdotal and p.e.) A reuptake inhibitor (note: its not an uptake inhibitor since it works on the post-synaptic side – blocking the receptor sites, not really anything to do w/the “serotonin uptake chemicals”) makes more serotonin available, ie there is already plenty present, hence the reduced/negated clinical euphoriant effect. In any case, single dose administration will do little to enhance/reduce fx as it takes 2-4 weeks for the serum/plasma levels of the drug to reach “therapeutic” concentrations.
Wellbutrin/Zyban is nothing like Prozac, other SSRI's, MAOI's or tricyclics. Wellbutrin’s active principle - bupropion hcl - is not only an SRI (ie has seratonergic activity) but also affects dopaminergic and noradrenergic receptors. It reversibly blocks the reuptake, but diminishes the release of dopamine, while its active metabolites block the reuptake of noradrenaline. Moreover, the specific mechanism of action is not known. So IMNSHO, t’aint wise to be double dropping bupropion and MDXA, ol’ son.
Samadhi, bioantioxidants do not ”flush” things out, they work through 2 ways – specifically - either by preventing the formation of highly unstable and reactive active forms of oxygen (AFOs) or by binding to and neutralising free radicals – and non-specifically, usually by binding to varying-valence metals (chelating ability).
BTW, just ‘cause something is of natural origin like St. John’s, does not mean the incidence of toxicity or side effects is lower than synthetic discrete-molecule pharms. You may want to look up what the long term immunological effects are for those Echinacea-munching morons. Oh, and can any practitioner that uses the word “should” when they don’t know their shit from shinola.
Figure out which bus ya wanna take, enjoy the ride and know when to get off.

Frqunt flyer,
I would appreciate it if you just gave the information as is, with out the extra "tags" of condescention. I have received all of my information from health care professionals, who i would be happy to provide the names and numbers of both of these people, so you can tell them personally that they don't know their shit from shinola??. And i take it that you are opposed to natural medicines, judging by your "echinacea munching morons remark?"
I thought that most people on this board were open minded and followed the live and let live rule???
Now, i'd just like to clear one thing up. You stated that
"Antidepressants including SSRIs are for treating people with DEPRESSION, a serious disorder, not for prolonging/enhancing your high offa party favors. If they were, rest assured them marketing MBA boys would have your gullible souls chowin' the shit for breakfast ala Prozac for dogs (true!)"
Don't know who you were directing that to, but with the exception of the occasional specific reference to NT and myself, it was a pretty general post....i never said that it enhanced or prolonged a roll...ssri's couldn't possibly...
Now i'm not being "pro-prozac" or anything here, and granted, these sorts of things should not be spoken about lightly, and if my comments seemed "off the cuff and general" then i apologise...i was just speaking from personal experience...
as one more point of interest...Johnboy pointed Neotripper to the ecstacy slideshow...check out this slide... http://dancesafe.org/slideshow20.html
it's not being totally in favour of prozac as a neuroprotecive substance, but it's not exactly warning people off it either, eh ? And this is a site that countless MDMA users look at...
K of samadhi
when your fun becomes your reality...what do you do for fun?
[This message has been edited by samadhi (edited 23 January 2001).]

I thought that most people on this board were open minded and followed the live and let live rule???

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not when other people are taking unproven assumptions and trying to pass them off as facts. it is increasingly frustrating to see people taking information from this board, misunderstanding it, then repeating it back garbled.
please can everyone stick to the facts, and try and avoid being condescending when you point out a misunderstanding.

Thanks for the reply Johnboy,
I was hoping that i wan't coming across as a complete bitch with my last post...but one thing that really irks me is condescending people...i can totally understand your frustration tho. My point was that i was merely stating facts- not assumptions that i had read on this board, but facts that my health care professionals had provided for me. I guess i am lucky that i have a doctor and a naturopath that i can feel totally open with in discussing my occasional use of recreational substances without fear of being placed in a category of druggie, raver...which i am not...(i'm not partial "candy" culture either!!!.
You know the really amusing thing? I only originally posted in this thread to point out to Neotripper that in my experience, Prozac is easier to get than a natural remedy such as L-Tryptophan!!!
PS...All is a go ahead on the BL stall for The Easter Advent*jah in Brisbane...just thought you'd like to know!

I have a concern. Someone in this thread mentioned that a health care professional said that it could be a concern to use 5htp continually because you may somehow become "dependent" on it and your brain might stop producing serotonin. I know that might be an incorrect interpretation of what's been said (sorry JB) but it's something I've independently thought of myself a few times, but still take 5htp.
In your opinions is it "safe", i mean it's not sold in Australia so the lawmakers must have some reservations, albeit mild ones because it's OK to import it. If someone did become "dependent" or found that their brain wasn't so good at producing serotonin after stopping the use of 5htp, would this be a reversible situation??
In essence - am I harming myself?? I have one 100mg cap before bed very night except the night before a roll (so as not to interfere). If I can't sleep or if I have a full stomach occasionally I'll have two at once. And sometimes one during the day recovery, although that's more of a self reassurance thing.
Thankyou and that is all
- Luko.

Luko, 5-htp is synthesised in your body as Tryptophan. Now tryptophan became illegal in Australia a while ago due to a recall of the product about 10 or so years ago. Some people that consumed the bad batch actually died from it (as a chemist told me). I'm ordering it from i-herb and I'm sure that if not for that incident it would be sold here.

Luko,
I was the one that stated that my GP told me she had reservations regarding prescribing me L-Trytophan (the precursor to 5htp), for the reasons you stated. Now, i don't take 5htp every day, and i only postload with 100 mg...and the amount of times i use MDMA is quite small.
I do know that the Therapeutic Goods Administration are currently reviewing L-Tryptophan and 5htp (and i did receive this info from a Doctor that is employed by the TGA) but as yet is still an unlistable substance...
in fact, L-Tryptophan is illegal in amounts of over 200mg (a "therapeutic dose") but you can buy a b-complex over the counter that contains 25mg of L-Tryptophan.
The Doctor from the TGA also told me that one of the reasons for 5htp's and L-tryptophans prohibition is the fact that there might be an issue of dependance with regards to long term continual use of the substance.
As with ANYTHING, you should just be cautious.
k of samadhi

Samadhi et al,
my post was for info purposes only and not specifically directed against any particular kiddies, my acerbic nature just shines through sometimes
as a GM of a natural pharmaceuticals / biotech company, with an MBA in marketing, my opinion admittedly is biased, although i fear it may be in the opposite direction you think of. and um, i did infact help Emmanuel correct the original Dancesafe slide show.
no morals, just e-jucation
p.s. as someone who has to deal with the TGA (australian drug regulatory body) on a daily basis, let me tell you, they have their heads shoved so far up their bureaucratic asses protecting vested interests and making sure Australia is the last to approve anything therapeutically useful, they make the FDA look like drug pushers.

again, condescention...
I might have learned something from your original post, as i am able to admit when someone is (far) more knowledgeable than myself, but i'm afraid that it was all lost on me when i read "kids, kids".
i'm assuming that you are at least old enough to be my father, going by the kids statement, so i guess i should be respectful of my elders...
Maybe for future reference, lose the condescention and ascerbity and use your knowledge of neuropsychopharmacology to guide our "gullible souls" in the right direction...
I was wondering also FF, why do you use this board?..not having a go at all, i would genuinely like to know.