Meth/Amphetamine-Crystals seeded with Herion?

OK, before people flame me like crazy please at least read my post to get an idea of my angle...

I recently was told by an individual that significant amounts meth/amphetamine crystal found in Australia have trace amounts of Heroin in them. When I asked why this was the case (due to EXTREME skepticism) this person went on to explain that when crystalizing the product Heroin was used to seed the crystals.
A few days later I recalled a situation about 18 months ago involving a friend. He smoked 2 points of very good crystal methamphetamine (tested with EZ-Extreme) in around 5 minutes. He had never tried the substance before and clearly did a very silly thing. He ODed and spent a number of days in hospital. During this time he was told by a doctor that blood tests had identified amphetamines and opiates (Heroin) in his body. He was told to get of the drugs and was discharged. I didn't see the results of the blood test but other friends apparently were shown them on a printout.
Now to my question; is it standard procedure to blood test young OD victims when no one knows what they took? Also if it is standard would he have been given the results as he claims he was?
If the answer to the above is affirmative could it be possible that some crystal meth/amphetamine contains TRACE amounts of heroin for the reasons stated in paragraph one.

I have some chem. knowledge and no clandestine chem. knowledge so try not to be hard on me. The only reason I even considered asking was because of the small amount of evidence I could find supporting the claim.

Thank you

is it standard procedure to blood test young OD victims when no one knows what they took?

Click to expand...

I don't know if it standard procedure, but it has occurred in all the drug-related hospitalisations I've known about. All the people I spoke to were told their results, but there's no way to verify if the results were correctly reported.

I find it very hard to believe that there is heroin in meth, but anything is possible. I have used the Marquis reagent on many samples of methamphetamines and never seen anything other than an orange to dirty brown reaction. Having also seen an opiate reaction (admittedly codeine), I expect I'd be able to distinguish them.

I guess we can never say "never" but I would say it is very rare.

I agree with your argument regarding reagent test results. I had considered this aspect and decided that if the opiate was only present in trace amounts, ie incredibly small, the amphetamine test result would overwhelm any slight opiate result.

Just to repeat my view once more, Im not saying I believe that there is heroin in CRYSTAL Meth. Im simply exposing the theory to my peers to gather opinions.

mongman I hope I din't give you the impression that I was dissing your theory. What I was saying is that my experience with testing makes me think there are no opiates in the stuff I have tested.

The reaction from opiates is pretty strong and is distinctly reddish-violet, so I would expect to see it amongst the muddy orange of amphetamines.

I'm also interested in the idea of seeding crystals since I don't understand the chemistry behind it.

Theres alot of things your friend could have taken to record a positive for opiates that has nothing to do with Meth(panadiene for example).
Heroin overides Meth/amphetamines with a Marquis reagent...at least at the ratios i had it mixed(50:50)

aunty establishment: No all is well, I didn't get that impression from you. Im just very aware that this topic could easily explode in my fact so Im trying very hard to express my stance on this theory clearly. =)

Regarding seeding crystals:
From my understanding most crystaline substances, ie salts, have a habit of forming around a speck of dust or so on. I think (once again high school chem all those years ago) the use of a "seed" such as a small crystal of the substance you have in solution can speed up the formation of the a crystal latice from the solution.
Please take everything I have said there with a grain of salt (no pun intended) as its all a very hazy recolection of highschool chem.

edit:
aloowishus: your inbox has been full for a bit could you empty so I can PM. Cheers mate.

This is a bullshit urban myth... I've done smack while on crystal and it's not very nice, if there was smack in the meth you'd sure as shit know about it from the effect.

I don't think they'd waste money from that. more than likely they'd use something like MSM or epsom salts if they were going to 'seed' anything.

Trust me, the stuff will turn into crystals with the help of a fan or hairdrier.

im not a chemist or anything, nor do i have a chemistry background. but i have done alot of reading out of curiosity over the years. and i have never ever read about heroin being used anywhere in any meth synthesis.

i think it was more than likely your friend had codiene in his system.

with this "seeding crystals" as you have described it, ive read of people using small meth crystals to "grow" larger ones..

Witch Doctor: The reason I even considered it for a second was because I was aware of the practice of using other crystal types to seed many products. MDMA can also be recrystalised using a similar method.

but what would the purpose of using something that is going to contaminate the product?

From my understanding most crystaline substances, ie salts, have a habit of forming around a speck of dust or so on. I think (once again high school chem all those years ago) the use of a "seed" such as a small crystal of the substance you have in solution can speed up the formation of the a crystal latice from the solution.

Click to expand...

Correct.


I have heard of this many times - primarily from the vain criminal scum bag low life sector. The reason given is so people get hooked from trace amounts of heroin and keep coming back for the gear that gives them their full satisfaction. I believed it is bullshit for a number of reasons.
(a) I've never felt any different from gear that was supposed to have smack in it
(b) Suspicions and rumours often arose from gear that tasted funny and burned black when smoked which only indicated dirty gear to me
(c) No-one in their right mind would waste smack to cut gear as you can sell tiny amounts of smack for the same price as a much greater amount of meth.

However, I have actually read on this board a while back that speed balls - meth + smack or coke + smack as I understand produce a shorter lived CNS stimulation which eventually fades into the smack effects thereby easing the come down off the stimulant. I have also heard from another source of gluggy pasty speed being cut with morphine for exactly the same reason and that's to easy the come down as opiates are longer lasting.

It must be noted that mixing downers with uppers in this manner increases the risk of complications significantly since your CNS would be struggling to cope with stimulation and depression effects all at once.

Lastly, in regard to results from your freind, it possible that he had a number of panadeines forte or anything else that contains codein.

I must say though, that out of everything I have ever heard, this is probably the most convincing evidence that smack is being added to meth somewhere, but definitelly not to seed crystals - most likelly to create the desired smack+meth effect.

Hmm, thanks for the info Runner2. Food for thought definitely.

I know for a FACT that there has been a thread on here sometime last year showing results from crystal meth that had been confiscated by police and tested. It showed that the majority of meth DID have some heroin in it... No I already feel like a tool for stating this without the link but I'm having trouble finding it with the search.
Anyone remember the thread I'm talking about???

I'll keep searching

I've never heard of such thing and if I read it, it would take some solid back up evidence to convince me. I've only heard of people being busted with substances that tested positive to methamphetamine. I would like to read this thread....

I'm having a hard time finding it. There's so many threads on meth it's a little overwhelming. I think it was from mid-late 2003.
However, since I can't find it don't listen to me until someone else remembers...
Now that I think, it may not have been the 'majority' of meth. But I'm still fairly sure there were results containing small concentrations of Heroin.

But until I can back myself up... everyone ignore me

Here we go Paisly.


Yaba Pills

Surely you can start crystals forming by scraping a glass rod on the bottom of the glass vessel?

BigTrancer

^^ Often but not always

Haha, it was Runner who initially posted that info I don't think it's fair to say that because heroin was found in yaba pills in Thailand, it will also be found in crystals in Australia. It also doesn't support the "seeding" idea as yaba pills aren't crystalline.