Bootlegger
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2000
- Messages
- 222
Interview with Nicholas Saunders
Q. Why did you write your two books about Ecstasy, E is for Ecstasy and Ecstasy and the Dance Culture?
A. I was first given Ecstasy in 1988 and contrary to all the newspaper reports, I found it was an amazingly liberating experience. Without going into details, it made me realize that I'd been mildly depressed for some years. I took Ecstasy, got out of the rut and I've never looked back. Afterwards, I heard all these horrific stories about Ecstasy, yet nothing I heard seemed to fit my experience, so when I was free from doing other business work, I decided to write a book about it. I wanted to try to set the record straight. From all the information available, I wanted to try and assess what the real risks and dangers were as well as the benefits. My first book on Ecstasy was published in 1993, the next in 1995 and my third is due now in 1997.
Q. When you say you've heard horrific stories which don't fit your own experience, what would you have expected to hear?
A. Ecstasy put me in an extremely realistic state of mind. I felt extremely grounded, yet open. I didn't lose any thing of normal perception, in fact I had heightened perceptions. Also, rather than being wired up and wild and feeling like I could dance all night, I actually felt very calm and very wide awake.
Q. In what sort of environment was that first experience?
A. I was actually on a train with a woman who I'd known for many years but didn't really know, if you know what I mean. She gave me the Ecstasy and we got on a train to a large botanical garden on the edge of London. In fact, we never even saw the garden. We were having such a good time, we just jumped straight back on another train back to London.
Q. Afterwards, did you try Ecstasy at a dance or rave party?
A. It was some years after that that I actually got into trying the dance scene. I took Ecstasy after that first experience with various different people in various situations but it was always somewhere quiet - in the country, at home or when I was on holiday. It was only after I heard about all the grown-up children of friends of mine who are taking Ecstasy at dance parties that I decided I had to try it in that context myself. It wasn't easy. For a start, I'm not exactly the right age. You've got all these teenagers and then me. I was sticking out like a sore thumb. I went to three parties, before I just sort of got it. At first I couldn't relax into the feeling but when I finally did, it was absolutely amazing. I just melted into it. This terrible self-consciousness ... 'God, what am I doing here?'... it just went and I became part of this incredible unified dance. Everyone was at one with each other and we were all doing this together and we were all uplifted. I suppose it sounds very snobbish but it felt like we were lifted up above "ordinary" people who weren't in this state. We were performing a tribal ritual together which was very precious and we were somehow elevated above the normal ways that people perceive each other.
Q. In one of your books, you describe that state as being like in a trance.
A. To me, it was not so much like being in a trance. It felt more like being part of something tribal. To me, being in a trance implies that you're not really fully in contact with everything. I felt very fully in contact with these people, but at the same time, no-one needed to speak. It was kind of implicit.
Q. Can we talk about some of the short term side effects of using Ecstasy, like jaw clenching and dryness of the mouth.
A. I have experienced side effects like jaw clenching and a bit of a shudder as the drug's taken effect. Sometimes these effects are even there after the drug's taken effect. But I think the overwhelming feeling of well-being completely overrides these side affects - even if they do exist, they become irrelevant.
Q. Moving from the immediate effects of Ecstasy, do you think it's an experience that has a benefit once the effects of the drug have worn off?
A. For me, the benefit really occurred afterwards. When I first took Ecstasy, it was a wonderful experience but afterwards, I realized that for several years, I hadn't really been fully letting myself go and enjoying life. I was holding a grudge against somebody I felt had cheated me in a business deal five or six years before. What was so ridiculous was I could see, under the influence of Ecstasy, that I was only punishing myself by not letting go. I wasn't hurting him, he was probably oblivious. That realization for me at that time was all I needed to just let bygones be bygones and get on with life. Suddenly, I had more energy, and I felt healthier. I'm not saying this applies to everybody, but for me, at that time, it was just what I needed.
Q. I have also heard that for some people with psychological problems, Ecstasy can be dangerous. Is that true?
A. There are loads of reports of people who are psychologically damaged because they've taken Ecstasy. I haven't actually come across anyone first hand, but I can well imagine it because this drug allows you to let go. It takes away fear and allows whatever is inside you to bubble up. I've no doubt a lot of what's inside us a lot of the time isn't very nice. I think many people who lead a normal life keep a lot of these things under wraps. If suddenly, it all bursts out, the experience can be quite unpleasant, and lasting. So yes, it is a drug that can do damage.
Q. Did you have expectations before you tried Ecstasy and, if so, did the drug live up to those?
A. I actually had very few expectations. If I thought anything, I thought it might be something like LSD. But it wasn't. I think the most surprising thing about it was it didn't take me into a different reality at all. In fact, I felt incredibly normal, and very aware of everything around me. I also had this heightened sense of reality. It was like I saw things as they really were, instead of half saw them like I do most of the time in my normal life.
Q. I'm making an assumption here that you're reasonably drug literate, but how would you compare your experience with Ecstasy to other drug experiences?
A. Ecstasy is my drug of choice. I did take LSD in the '60s because I'm an old hippie and that's what we did. I don't give a toss for marijuana. I used to quite enjoy it but I never really thought it was a great drug. I think LSD is probably a much more interesting drug in that it does take you to a completely different realm although this is an experience which is very hard to describe after the event. Actually that's the problem, it's hard to learn from because you can't even describe the experience to yourself - it's beyond words. Most of the other drugs I've tried are on that psychedelic level. The thing with Ecstasy is it makes you intensely aware, but in the everyday realm of existence. As a result, you can remember the experience afterwards, and find words to describe it which is why I think it's useful therapeutically.
Q. Are you saying psychedelic drugs should be available to people so they can have these kinds of experiences?
A. I take the basically libertarian view that neither the government or the state should prevent people from doing what they want with their own bodies provided that it doesn't harm other people. I think that potentially, they're of enormous value. At the moment, I'm researching a new book on the spiritual uses of psychedelics because in my mind, there's no doubt that the classic spiritual experience is one which can be accessed through the use of psychedelics and that can be of great benefit.
Q. Given that Ecstasy is illegal, do you think parents in particular should be worried about their children using it?
A. I'm a parent and I've got a son who's 17, however he doesn't take Ecstasy. He's not interested. But if he does decide to try it - and I suspect he will one day - I hope that he will learn as much as possible about it beforehand so that he doesn't take undue risks. However, those risks statistically are probably on a par with those associated with horse riding. I think the public perception of what's risky is not really based on statistics or on science. It's based largely on the popular press which often exaggerates the dangers of drug use.
Q. Is Ecstasy a commonly used drug in Britain at the moment?
A. One figure that's been bandied about is that in Britain, for the last five years, between half a million and one million people use Ecstasy every week. However a 1996 British crime survey on usage reckoned there are only about 150,000 regular users. [Actually I have since reassessed this. In fact, the survey does not change much after all. First, 80,000 was the minimum, while 150,000 the probable; secondly because if the average regular user takes Ecstasy three out of four weekends, and the non regular users about three times a year, then the total number of pill taking events, used in the risk assessment, is about the same.]
Q. I guess there's no way to get accurate figures while the drug is illegal?
A. I really think some effort should be made to find out what the statistics for Ecstasy use are. They're vital if we're to make an accurate assessment of the drug's dangers and formulate policy.
Q. For people who are using the drug for the first time, is there anything you consider to be both a safety measure and a way of obtaining maximum benefit from the drug?
A. I think the experience you have depends tremendously on the mood you're in and your surroundings. People who take Ecstasy for the first time should do so in a place where they feel extremely comfortable, don't have to impress anyone, and where they won't have to deal with any problems or interruptions.
I think there are two different ways of using Ecstasy. Either you can be in a situation where you're dancing and you just get into the dancing and the rhythm of the party. If you're used to that sort of scene, you can have a wonderful time. If, on the other hand, you want to look into your soul, you need the opposite. You need as little stimulation as possible. You need to be in a very quiet place, out in the country or at home. Ideally you should have a friend with you who's used it before. You'll be able to rely on them to look after you, and they'll understand what you're going through. Personally, I like to be lying down with my eyes closed or I wear eye shades. I also like to listen to music because it allows me to go even deeper within.
Q. In your book, you've got pictures that people have drawn before and during an Ecstasy experience which look very different. What do you think that says about an Ecstasy experience?
A. I asked a lot of people who are not professional artists but who draw for a hobby to pair up and draw each other before they took Ecstasy and then after. All had taken Ecstasy before, mainly as part of the club scene. What I think they show is that under the influence of Ecstasy, people are more able to let go. This one (picture) is my favourite. Before Ecstasy, it's a very stiff-looking portrait. After, it's just a smile. Interestingly, one man who considered he knew how to draw was very upset when he saw his post-Ecstasy picture. He didn't like the fact that he'd forgotten the rules.
I got the idea to do this experiment from a man in California called Oscar Yanigar who did a similar experiment with LSD. To my mind, the 'before' and 'after' drawings of artists using LSD express an LSD experience much more articulately than words ever could.
I think the great majority of people who take Ecstasy for the first time enjoy the experience. I think the real key to having an enjoyable experience is being in a situation where you feel very secure and you're doing something you enjoy like dancing, or spending quiet time in the country. It's also a good idea to have someone around who you know and trust and who is totally familiar with the drug.
For a more spiritual experience, minimize the amount of external stimulation. If you're going for high stimulation, a dance party environment is appropriate.
What you've got to remember is that Ecstasy is not a pill that makes you happy, it's a pill that allows you to indulge in the direction that you're already moving or intending to move in.
Q. How do you feel about the fact that more harmful drugs like alcohol and tobacco are legal while Ecstasy and marijuana aren't?
A. It is absolutely ludicrous that the classification for Ecstasy is that for a dangerous drug with no therapeutic potential - the same as for crack. Government inquiries into this classification in Holland and Spain have both recommended it come under the same classification as cannabis, which is the lowest. As yet, neither country has implemented this. Unfortunately, the perception of how dangerous a drug is is not really based on scientific evidence. It's based on what's socially acceptable. Unfortunately Ecstasy and the effect it has on people - they let go - is not socially acceptable. Alcohol certainly causes far more damage, but it's been around for much, much longer and used in a context that we're much more comfortable with.
Q. Do you Ecstasy will ever be legalized?
A. I don't know whether Ecstasy will ever be legalized. What might very well happen is that in the next few years, Ecstasy or an equivalent drug which has a similar effects, will be used more in psychotherapy. Although there's strong resistance to it in some quarters, there's a lot of support for it as well. If it became an accepted drug in a psychotherapeutic context, I imagine it would be seen in a different light by society which might eventually become reconciled to its use in a social context as well.
Q. I read that you went to the US and took part in some studies on the effects of Ecstasy. Can you tell me about that.
A. I went to the states to take part in two trials on the safety effects. One was run by George Ricaurte, the other by Charles Grob. I also interviewed some researchers about the drug's neurotoxicity. What I found was that there's not only differences in opinion about the neurotoxicity of Ecstasy, but that these differences have more to do with professional competition between scientists than truth. Having said that, I think that the dangers associated with Ecstasy use are exaggerated.
Q. Do you think ravers get anything on a spiritual level from using Ecstasy?
A. I am interested in whether the rave culture is using it in a similar way. I actually personally suspect that they are.
Obviously people's opinions are divided on this but certainly some people in the rave culture do view Ecstasy as a spiritual tool. However, it all depends on what a person's definition of spirituality is. A raver's definition of it might be quite different to religious person's definition.
When I was writing my last book, I interviewed a rabbi, a Benedictine monk and two Buddhists from two completely different schools of Zen Buddhism. All teach prayer and meditation and use Ecstasy in private to help them achieve a heightened spiritual awareness.
Q. How are they using it?
A. The Benedictine Monk that I interviewed said that although he tries to pray every day, true prayer which he describes as an open line to god seldom comes. Sometimes he tries and tries but never gets there. When he takes Ecstasy, it happens immediately and he's able to achieve that meditative state much more easily. When this effect of Ecstasy wears off after a year or so, he uses the drug again.
I actually took the Zen Buddhist monk, who was 70 years old at the time, to a rave in England. He said that although he had a bad back and couldn't dance, he was very curious to see Ecstasy used in a rave environment as he was only familiar with its effects in a private, spiritual context. At first, he couldn't stand the music and put his fingers in his ears. But later, I noticed his face was glowing. He was so excited. He said, 'I can see what it's all about, this is walking meditation, these people are meditating only they don't realize it. It's the same state of being completely in the here and now, although it manifests in this repetitive physical movement.'
Nicholas Saunders was part of an early wave of experimental users who were seeking life enhancement from Ecstasy. His experience of the drug so inspired him he endeavoured to find out as much as he can about it. To this end, he talked to scientists as well as to other users about their own experiences. Saunders was killed in a car crash in South Africa in 1998. Saunders was also the author of two controversial books on the subject: E is for Ecstasy and Ecstasy and the Dance Culture.
------------------
And the Mission is the Mouse...
[This message has been edited by Bootlegger (edited 10 December 2000).]
Q. Why did you write your two books about Ecstasy, E is for Ecstasy and Ecstasy and the Dance Culture?
A. I was first given Ecstasy in 1988 and contrary to all the newspaper reports, I found it was an amazingly liberating experience. Without going into details, it made me realize that I'd been mildly depressed for some years. I took Ecstasy, got out of the rut and I've never looked back. Afterwards, I heard all these horrific stories about Ecstasy, yet nothing I heard seemed to fit my experience, so when I was free from doing other business work, I decided to write a book about it. I wanted to try to set the record straight. From all the information available, I wanted to try and assess what the real risks and dangers were as well as the benefits. My first book on Ecstasy was published in 1993, the next in 1995 and my third is due now in 1997.
Q. When you say you've heard horrific stories which don't fit your own experience, what would you have expected to hear?
A. Ecstasy put me in an extremely realistic state of mind. I felt extremely grounded, yet open. I didn't lose any thing of normal perception, in fact I had heightened perceptions. Also, rather than being wired up and wild and feeling like I could dance all night, I actually felt very calm and very wide awake.
Q. In what sort of environment was that first experience?
A. I was actually on a train with a woman who I'd known for many years but didn't really know, if you know what I mean. She gave me the Ecstasy and we got on a train to a large botanical garden on the edge of London. In fact, we never even saw the garden. We were having such a good time, we just jumped straight back on another train back to London.
Q. Afterwards, did you try Ecstasy at a dance or rave party?
A. It was some years after that that I actually got into trying the dance scene. I took Ecstasy after that first experience with various different people in various situations but it was always somewhere quiet - in the country, at home or when I was on holiday. It was only after I heard about all the grown-up children of friends of mine who are taking Ecstasy at dance parties that I decided I had to try it in that context myself. It wasn't easy. For a start, I'm not exactly the right age. You've got all these teenagers and then me. I was sticking out like a sore thumb. I went to three parties, before I just sort of got it. At first I couldn't relax into the feeling but when I finally did, it was absolutely amazing. I just melted into it. This terrible self-consciousness ... 'God, what am I doing here?'... it just went and I became part of this incredible unified dance. Everyone was at one with each other and we were all doing this together and we were all uplifted. I suppose it sounds very snobbish but it felt like we were lifted up above "ordinary" people who weren't in this state. We were performing a tribal ritual together which was very precious and we were somehow elevated above the normal ways that people perceive each other.
Q. In one of your books, you describe that state as being like in a trance.
A. To me, it was not so much like being in a trance. It felt more like being part of something tribal. To me, being in a trance implies that you're not really fully in contact with everything. I felt very fully in contact with these people, but at the same time, no-one needed to speak. It was kind of implicit.
Q. Can we talk about some of the short term side effects of using Ecstasy, like jaw clenching and dryness of the mouth.
A. I have experienced side effects like jaw clenching and a bit of a shudder as the drug's taken effect. Sometimes these effects are even there after the drug's taken effect. But I think the overwhelming feeling of well-being completely overrides these side affects - even if they do exist, they become irrelevant.
Q. Moving from the immediate effects of Ecstasy, do you think it's an experience that has a benefit once the effects of the drug have worn off?
A. For me, the benefit really occurred afterwards. When I first took Ecstasy, it was a wonderful experience but afterwards, I realized that for several years, I hadn't really been fully letting myself go and enjoying life. I was holding a grudge against somebody I felt had cheated me in a business deal five or six years before. What was so ridiculous was I could see, under the influence of Ecstasy, that I was only punishing myself by not letting go. I wasn't hurting him, he was probably oblivious. That realization for me at that time was all I needed to just let bygones be bygones and get on with life. Suddenly, I had more energy, and I felt healthier. I'm not saying this applies to everybody, but for me, at that time, it was just what I needed.
Q. I have also heard that for some people with psychological problems, Ecstasy can be dangerous. Is that true?
A. There are loads of reports of people who are psychologically damaged because they've taken Ecstasy. I haven't actually come across anyone first hand, but I can well imagine it because this drug allows you to let go. It takes away fear and allows whatever is inside you to bubble up. I've no doubt a lot of what's inside us a lot of the time isn't very nice. I think many people who lead a normal life keep a lot of these things under wraps. If suddenly, it all bursts out, the experience can be quite unpleasant, and lasting. So yes, it is a drug that can do damage.
Q. Did you have expectations before you tried Ecstasy and, if so, did the drug live up to those?
A. I actually had very few expectations. If I thought anything, I thought it might be something like LSD. But it wasn't. I think the most surprising thing about it was it didn't take me into a different reality at all. In fact, I felt incredibly normal, and very aware of everything around me. I also had this heightened sense of reality. It was like I saw things as they really were, instead of half saw them like I do most of the time in my normal life.
Q. I'm making an assumption here that you're reasonably drug literate, but how would you compare your experience with Ecstasy to other drug experiences?
A. Ecstasy is my drug of choice. I did take LSD in the '60s because I'm an old hippie and that's what we did. I don't give a toss for marijuana. I used to quite enjoy it but I never really thought it was a great drug. I think LSD is probably a much more interesting drug in that it does take you to a completely different realm although this is an experience which is very hard to describe after the event. Actually that's the problem, it's hard to learn from because you can't even describe the experience to yourself - it's beyond words. Most of the other drugs I've tried are on that psychedelic level. The thing with Ecstasy is it makes you intensely aware, but in the everyday realm of existence. As a result, you can remember the experience afterwards, and find words to describe it which is why I think it's useful therapeutically.
Q. Are you saying psychedelic drugs should be available to people so they can have these kinds of experiences?
A. I take the basically libertarian view that neither the government or the state should prevent people from doing what they want with their own bodies provided that it doesn't harm other people. I think that potentially, they're of enormous value. At the moment, I'm researching a new book on the spiritual uses of psychedelics because in my mind, there's no doubt that the classic spiritual experience is one which can be accessed through the use of psychedelics and that can be of great benefit.
Q. Given that Ecstasy is illegal, do you think parents in particular should be worried about their children using it?
A. I'm a parent and I've got a son who's 17, however he doesn't take Ecstasy. He's not interested. But if he does decide to try it - and I suspect he will one day - I hope that he will learn as much as possible about it beforehand so that he doesn't take undue risks. However, those risks statistically are probably on a par with those associated with horse riding. I think the public perception of what's risky is not really based on statistics or on science. It's based largely on the popular press which often exaggerates the dangers of drug use.
Q. Is Ecstasy a commonly used drug in Britain at the moment?
A. One figure that's been bandied about is that in Britain, for the last five years, between half a million and one million people use Ecstasy every week. However a 1996 British crime survey on usage reckoned there are only about 150,000 regular users. [Actually I have since reassessed this. In fact, the survey does not change much after all. First, 80,000 was the minimum, while 150,000 the probable; secondly because if the average regular user takes Ecstasy three out of four weekends, and the non regular users about three times a year, then the total number of pill taking events, used in the risk assessment, is about the same.]
Q. I guess there's no way to get accurate figures while the drug is illegal?
A. I really think some effort should be made to find out what the statistics for Ecstasy use are. They're vital if we're to make an accurate assessment of the drug's dangers and formulate policy.
Q. For people who are using the drug for the first time, is there anything you consider to be both a safety measure and a way of obtaining maximum benefit from the drug?
A. I think the experience you have depends tremendously on the mood you're in and your surroundings. People who take Ecstasy for the first time should do so in a place where they feel extremely comfortable, don't have to impress anyone, and where they won't have to deal with any problems or interruptions.
I think there are two different ways of using Ecstasy. Either you can be in a situation where you're dancing and you just get into the dancing and the rhythm of the party. If you're used to that sort of scene, you can have a wonderful time. If, on the other hand, you want to look into your soul, you need the opposite. You need as little stimulation as possible. You need to be in a very quiet place, out in the country or at home. Ideally you should have a friend with you who's used it before. You'll be able to rely on them to look after you, and they'll understand what you're going through. Personally, I like to be lying down with my eyes closed or I wear eye shades. I also like to listen to music because it allows me to go even deeper within.
Q. In your book, you've got pictures that people have drawn before and during an Ecstasy experience which look very different. What do you think that says about an Ecstasy experience?
A. I asked a lot of people who are not professional artists but who draw for a hobby to pair up and draw each other before they took Ecstasy and then after. All had taken Ecstasy before, mainly as part of the club scene. What I think they show is that under the influence of Ecstasy, people are more able to let go. This one (picture) is my favourite. Before Ecstasy, it's a very stiff-looking portrait. After, it's just a smile. Interestingly, one man who considered he knew how to draw was very upset when he saw his post-Ecstasy picture. He didn't like the fact that he'd forgotten the rules.
I got the idea to do this experiment from a man in California called Oscar Yanigar who did a similar experiment with LSD. To my mind, the 'before' and 'after' drawings of artists using LSD express an LSD experience much more articulately than words ever could.
I think the great majority of people who take Ecstasy for the first time enjoy the experience. I think the real key to having an enjoyable experience is being in a situation where you feel very secure and you're doing something you enjoy like dancing, or spending quiet time in the country. It's also a good idea to have someone around who you know and trust and who is totally familiar with the drug.
For a more spiritual experience, minimize the amount of external stimulation. If you're going for high stimulation, a dance party environment is appropriate.
What you've got to remember is that Ecstasy is not a pill that makes you happy, it's a pill that allows you to indulge in the direction that you're already moving or intending to move in.
Q. How do you feel about the fact that more harmful drugs like alcohol and tobacco are legal while Ecstasy and marijuana aren't?
A. It is absolutely ludicrous that the classification for Ecstasy is that for a dangerous drug with no therapeutic potential - the same as for crack. Government inquiries into this classification in Holland and Spain have both recommended it come under the same classification as cannabis, which is the lowest. As yet, neither country has implemented this. Unfortunately, the perception of how dangerous a drug is is not really based on scientific evidence. It's based on what's socially acceptable. Unfortunately Ecstasy and the effect it has on people - they let go - is not socially acceptable. Alcohol certainly causes far more damage, but it's been around for much, much longer and used in a context that we're much more comfortable with.
Q. Do you Ecstasy will ever be legalized?
A. I don't know whether Ecstasy will ever be legalized. What might very well happen is that in the next few years, Ecstasy or an equivalent drug which has a similar effects, will be used more in psychotherapy. Although there's strong resistance to it in some quarters, there's a lot of support for it as well. If it became an accepted drug in a psychotherapeutic context, I imagine it would be seen in a different light by society which might eventually become reconciled to its use in a social context as well.
Q. I read that you went to the US and took part in some studies on the effects of Ecstasy. Can you tell me about that.
A. I went to the states to take part in two trials on the safety effects. One was run by George Ricaurte, the other by Charles Grob. I also interviewed some researchers about the drug's neurotoxicity. What I found was that there's not only differences in opinion about the neurotoxicity of Ecstasy, but that these differences have more to do with professional competition between scientists than truth. Having said that, I think that the dangers associated with Ecstasy use are exaggerated.
Q. Do you think ravers get anything on a spiritual level from using Ecstasy?
A. I am interested in whether the rave culture is using it in a similar way. I actually personally suspect that they are.
Obviously people's opinions are divided on this but certainly some people in the rave culture do view Ecstasy as a spiritual tool. However, it all depends on what a person's definition of spirituality is. A raver's definition of it might be quite different to religious person's definition.
When I was writing my last book, I interviewed a rabbi, a Benedictine monk and two Buddhists from two completely different schools of Zen Buddhism. All teach prayer and meditation and use Ecstasy in private to help them achieve a heightened spiritual awareness.
Q. How are they using it?
A. The Benedictine Monk that I interviewed said that although he tries to pray every day, true prayer which he describes as an open line to god seldom comes. Sometimes he tries and tries but never gets there. When he takes Ecstasy, it happens immediately and he's able to achieve that meditative state much more easily. When this effect of Ecstasy wears off after a year or so, he uses the drug again.
I actually took the Zen Buddhist monk, who was 70 years old at the time, to a rave in England. He said that although he had a bad back and couldn't dance, he was very curious to see Ecstasy used in a rave environment as he was only familiar with its effects in a private, spiritual context. At first, he couldn't stand the music and put his fingers in his ears. But later, I noticed his face was glowing. He was so excited. He said, 'I can see what it's all about, this is walking meditation, these people are meditating only they don't realize it. It's the same state of being completely in the here and now, although it manifests in this repetitive physical movement.'
Nicholas Saunders was part of an early wave of experimental users who were seeking life enhancement from Ecstasy. His experience of the drug so inspired him he endeavoured to find out as much as he can about it. To this end, he talked to scientists as well as to other users about their own experiences. Saunders was killed in a car crash in South Africa in 1998. Saunders was also the author of two controversial books on the subject: E is for Ecstasy and Ecstasy and the Dance Culture.
------------------
And the Mission is the Mouse...
[This message has been edited by Bootlegger (edited 10 December 2000).]
