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hydrobromide
24-11-2004, 21:57
After what seems like endless searching, I can find no online source for a documented procedure for isolating the alkaloids found in Mitragyna Speciosa.

Does anyone know of any working methods?

I'm not very skilled in chemistry, but what might be the result of preforming an extraction similar to the DMT / 5-MeO-DMT method used for Mimosa Hostilis, etc. on Mitragyna Speciosa leaf material?

gnrm23
27-11-2004, 20:44
www.ethnobotany.yage.net/ibogex.html

for ibogaine extraction, but might be a useful tech anyways for many crude alkaloid extractions...

rachamim18
29-11-2004, 10:43
You are going to kill me but I'd have to get it from my house [which in case you haven't figured it out I am away from]. I will post it within the next day. I also have papers on the other 2 indoles, and the 2 oxindoles as well if you want.

hydrobromide
01-12-2004, 01:15
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Thank you! If you can find the other references, I'd like to take a look at them too. I am very interested in these type of things.

Cat Again
02-12-2004, 22:19
Bada-BUMP=D

rachamim18
03-12-2004, 17:28
Didn't want you to think that I have forgotten. I should post it later today, sorry for delay.

rachamim18
03-12-2004, 18:47
O.K. I have at least 80 on mitragynine itself and several for each of the remaining indoles as well as the oxindoles. I have only found my mitra notebook so I will offer 5 good ones that should get you started. all except one are not available [in complete form] on the net so I cannot offer urls [on them. I will however offer the complete reference so that you can track them down. if I had a scanner I'd upload them but I don't [so I won't].

1] "Evaluation of Analgesic Induced by Mitragynine, Morphine, and Paracetamol of Mice" Idid, S.Z., Saad, L.B., Yaacob, H., Shahimi, M.M. [I especially like this paper because of the parallels it draws with other analgesics. They performed acetic acid writhings, as well as hot and cold tail flicks. They discovered [among other things] 200 mg./kg. of mitragynine equalled 5 mg./kg. of morphine reduced writhings. I won't bore with you with the figures but they're there. I do have a url.: www.arbec.com./my/pdf/may-4.pdf Of course it is only available there in pdf form but that should be of no consequence].

2]"Studies of the Synthesis and Opioid Agonistic Activities of Mitragynine-Related Indole Alkaloids: Discovery of Opioid Agonists Structurally Different from Other Opioid Ligands" Takayama, et al. J. Med. Chem. 4/02 45[9] pp.1949-1956. [This was a study out of Chiba U. in Chiba, Japan. Chiba has done alot of work with this alkaloid over the last decade or so. you might want to check out their database[s] ].

3]" Suppressive Effect of Mitragynine on the 5-methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine-Induced Head Twitch Response in Mice" Matsumoto, et al. Pharmacol Biochem Behav [1997] 57[1-2] pp.319-323 [You are in luck with this one because Erowid has this one in their reference database. It is reference# 6343. I usually don't put much stock in Erowid but sometimes they are amzing. I wish I had found this in their database before buying this paper].

4]" Opioid Receptor Agonist Differences of Mitragynine Pseudoindoxyl in Comparison with Mitragynine Derived from the Thai Medicinal Plant Mitragyna Speciosa" Yamamoto, et al. Gen Pharmacol [7/99] 33[1] pp.73-81 [This is another Chiba article...check that database! This paper should be of great interest to you as it compares the the pseudo with the natural].

5] This is the mother of all mitra studies. The original paper by Zacharias, Rosenstein, and Jeffrey who actually were the first to define the alkaloid in 64. " The Properties of Mitragynine, an Alkaloid of the Leaf of the Plant Mitragyna Speciosa" [You can find a copy of this paper [and others by the same group] in Acta Cryst [1965] 18 pp.1039-1043. This is a journal of the "Foundation of Crystallography"].

If you still need more let me know. Sorry it took so long.

I just tried the hyper link above and haven't found it working...The url is good though.

hydrobromide
03-12-2004, 19:12
Does anyone have any suggestions on some sort of extraction that would isolate a mixture of all the active alkaloids found in the leaf material?

Maybe we could put together some sort of step by step process...making the tea takes me too long.

rachamim18
03-12-2004, 21:07
the thing is, and I could be wrong, that this forum is supposed to be along a different line. In compromise, I can offer you a couple of papers on that exact subject. Let me know if you want them.

phase_dancer
03-12-2004, 21:16
Yes, I would imagine extraction falls under the no synth discussion rule. It might be best sharing such info via PM.

rachamim18
03-12-2004, 22:09
Thank you.

hydrobromide
05-01-2005, 23:09
rachamim18 - Your PM box is full...

gnrm23
06-01-2005, 20:05
haysoos kristos...



soak the leaf in white vinegar
filter
(allow solids to settle out)
add ammonia water to vinegar soln until ppt ceases
"harvest" solid ppt & dry well ("crude alkaloids freebase solids")

no tricky solvents required unless you want "more purity" in your extract...

hydrobromide
06-01-2005, 22:07
Originally posted by gnrm23
haysoos kristos...



soak the leaf in white vinegar
filter
(allow solids to settle out)
add ammonia water to vinegar soln until ppt ceases
"harvest" solid ppt & dry well ("crude alkaloids freebase solids")

no tricky solvents required unless you want "more purity" in your extract...

How long do you soak the leaves in vinegar? Would the application of heat decrease the amount of time needed?

How much tannin (and other crap) would be in the end product, and would it be worth it to refine it somehow?

This is already way better than my previous method:

01. Boil the leaf material in vinegar / water for 30-45min.

02. Filter all leaf material.

03. Repeat first 2 steps on leaf material twice.

04. Toss leaf material, and boil off all water / vinegar until a crude resin remains.

rachamim18
07-01-2005, 20:33
Not very effective and you will not isolate any one alkaloid. If you are after mitragynine I will p.m. a scheme either later today or tomorrow. I know that you had requested a paper a while back and I believe that I said I'd send you it. If so, I am sorry it is taking a while. I owe about 4 to various people and seem to be treading water. I will send the extraction first and look into the other matter.

rachamim18
07-01-2005, 20:36
The offered scheme is commonly used by native users sans the acid. You will end up with a smokable crude resin with all of the harsh byproducts that come with it so if that is your goal follow the scheme.

hydrobromide
07-01-2005, 20:48
Originally posted by rachamim18
Not very effective and you will not isolate any one alkaloid. If you are after mitragynine I will p.m. a scheme either later today or tomorrow. I know that you had requested a paper a while back and I believe that I said I'd send you it. If so, I am sorry it is taking a while. I owe about 4 to various people and seem to be treading water. I will send the extraction first and look into the other matter.

I don't really need mitragynine isolated, but I'd like it if somehow I could isolate all the active alkaloids. I'm still interested in the paper on the isolation of mitragynine itself though, if it's not too much trouble. No rush though, I'm going to experiment with the crude ammonia / vinegar extraction for now...

rachamim18
07-01-2005, 20:52
You'll get a smokable, concentrated resin but it is very harsh on the lungs. I will send the promised paper asap. Good luck.

hydrobromide
12-01-2005, 07:05
Originally posted by gnrm23
haysoos kristos...



soak the leaf in white vinegar
filter
(allow solids to settle out)
add ammonia water to vinegar soln until ppt ceases
"harvest" solid ppt & dry well ("crude alkaloids freebase solids")

no tricky solvents required unless you want "more purity" in your extract...

How does one "harvest" the solid precipitate? There is a precipitate, but it's suspended. I was expecting it to sink to the bottom. Does "dry well" mean putting it in a baking dish in the window with a fan on it, or is heat needed?

Cat Again
04-02-2005, 08:54
so does the above extraction work?
what were the results hydro?

fastandbulbous
04-02-2005, 21:29
Hydrobromide, you can extract just about any alkaloid using ion exchange chromatography. If there are several present, you can fractionally eloute to get individual alkaloids (but it's a right pain in the arse), or just eloute them all in one big flush.

As I can't go into details here, because of the rules, if you pm me, I'll cobble together some of the data about ion-exchange resins, which ones are best, and the results I've achieved using it (it's a lot of physical chem about pKa's etc., but if you're not put off, it's very efficient - and recycleable)

BilZ0r
05-02-2005, 00:39
I think extractions are fine, and within the rules...

C6H6
08-02-2005, 21:00
Patent US 3256149 describes the extraction and purification of alkaloids from Mitragyne speciosa. Once you have isolated mitragynine you can easily convert it into the much more potent mitragynine pseudoinxoxy. There are some good publications by Takayama H on Pubmed, some with free fulltext.

dogtoy
09-02-2005, 18:03
As for suspended precipitate, you could just filter it (good paper coffee filter) and then put the results of the filtration (sticky goo maybe) in a baking dish, pop it in a toaster oven for awhile. Then scrape and smoke, you could even do the rolling into pills and swalling that it is said natives do (erowid somewhere).