Question about the sunflowers in melbourne earlier this year
- Thread starter Mr. Horse
- Start date
MíkeySåmmy
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2000
- Messages
- 2,216
Horsey, personally I have no idea wtf you're talking about. I ate quite a few sunflowers last summer, they may not be the ones you are talking about but i assume they would be..
And no, i found them definitely not like E at all.
And no, i found them definitely not like E at all.
Leprechaun
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2000
- Messages
- 1,582
I doubt that the sunflowers where PMA. LSD cantake on MDMA like qualities depending on your set and setting. There is a lot you can get from LSD, the experience can be transending, or it can also be grounding.
PMA(4-MA) comes in 60-80mg doses. I doubt that you could get that much into a tab, unless there are super-saturation techniques that I am unaware of.
On the bright side, looks like you had a really great trip on these if they felt like MDMA.
Here are the list of effects of PMA at higher dosages.
--------------------------------------------
POSITIVE
increase in energy (stimulation)
minor visuals
NEUTRAL
general change in consciousness (as with most psychoactives)
pupil dilation
erratic eye movements
NEGATIVE
muscle spasms
increased blood temperature
increased blood pressure
increased body temperature (fever)
increased pulse rate
labored breathing
nausea & vomiting
convulsions, coma & death (see reports in media and journal sections)
-TAKEN FROM EROWID PMA VAULT-
PMA(4-MA) comes in 60-80mg doses. I doubt that you could get that much into a tab, unless there are super-saturation techniques that I am unaware of.
On the bright side, looks like you had a really great trip on these if they felt like MDMA.
Here are the list of effects of PMA at higher dosages.
--------------------------------------------
POSITIVE
increase in energy (stimulation)
minor visuals
NEUTRAL
general change in consciousness (as with most psychoactives)
pupil dilation
erratic eye movements
NEGATIVE
muscle spasms
increased blood temperature
increased blood pressure
increased body temperature (fever)
increased pulse rate
labored breathing
nausea & vomiting
convulsions, coma & death (see reports in media and journal sections)
-TAKEN FROM EROWID PMA VAULT-
Yeah there are a couple of different types of acid. Chemically structurally differnt too.
The hoffies were one (real big visuals etc) the one I had a couple of weekends ago (batman) was a laughy laughy giggly one (well at least for me) without as many full on visuals
The hoffies were one (real big visuals etc) the one I had a couple of weekends ago (batman) was a laughy laughy giggly one (well at least for me) without as many full on visuals
Leprechaun
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2000
- Messages
- 1,582
Other substances related to LSD-25, created either from LSD-25, or are in the same chemical family as LSD-25. Note-LSD-25 is difficult enough to construct, some of these are even more difficult to construct the LSD-25. On the street, you usually get LSD-25, rarely, if ever are there "DIFFERENT" types of LSD. Some tabs have stronger doses, and sometimes, you set and setting are different.
NOTE: I had two hoffmans from the same batch with completetly different experiences, one was visual, the other was more philisophical.
-------------------------------------------
ALD-52. 1-Acetyl-N,N-diethyllysergamide. This material has been explored in the 50-175 microgram range and there are a number of human trials reported, with varying conclusions. One found that there was less visual distortion than with LSD and it seems to produce less anxiety and was somewhat less potent than LSD. Another report claimed it was more effective in increasing blood pressure. Yet another could not tell them apart. ALD-52 just may have been the drug that was sold as "Orange Sunshine" during the "Summer of Love" in the late '60's. Or "Orange Sunshine" may have been, really, LSD. This was the focus of a fascinating trial where two defendants were accused of distributing LSD, whereas they claimed that it was ALD-52 which was not an illegal drug. The prosecution claimed that as it hydrolyses readily to LSD, for all intents and purposes it was LSD, and anyway, you had to go through the illegal LSD to get to ALD-52 by any of the known chemical syntheses. The defendants were found guilty. And yet, I do not know who has actually measured the speed or ease of that reaction. If ALD-52 hydrolyses so easily to LSD, and the body is indeed a hydrolytic instrument, then these two drugs should be absolutely equivalent in every particular, This is the ergot equivalent of the psilocybin to psilocin argument, except this is an acetamide rather than a phosphate ester.
MLD-41. 1-Methyl-N,N-diethyllysergamide. The 1-methyl homologue of LSD is has more of somatic than sensory effect, has fewer visuals and is less well accepted than LSD, with the range of dosages being from 100 to 300 micrograms. This indicates that it is perhaps a third the potency of LSD which is in accord with both pupilary dilation and reflex action. However, the cardiovascular responses are actually increased. Besides being less potent than LSD, it appears to have a slower onset but it is equally long lived. There is cross-tolerance between MLD-41 and LSD.
BOL-148. 2-Bromo-N,N-diethyllysergamide. This synthetic ergot derivative, along with its 1-methyl homologue MBL-61 (mentioned below) should be used as powerful tools for studying the mechanism of action of LSD in the human animal. It does not have LSD-like effects in man. At 6 to 10 milligrams orally, there are some mental changes noted. But in another study, 20 milligrams was administered a day to a subject for 7 days, and there were no reported effects. And yet it is as potent a serotonin agonist as is LSD. How can serotonin be argued as a neurotransmitter that is a major player in explaining the action of psychedelic drugs, when this compound is nearly without activity.
There are some suggestions that an intervenous route may be more effective. I have heard of effects being noted at maybe a milligram and a short (2-3 hour) intoxicaion following 20 milligrams administered over a 20 minute period. I was involved many years ago in a study of radio-labelled BOL-148 which was made by the bromination of LSD. I was quite sure that the only radioactive material present was BOL-148, but there could well have been some unreacted LSD still present which would, of course, still be psychoactive. The synthesis is not clean -- I was tempted to make an entry for this compound if only to reproduce Albert Hofmann's original published experimental procedure. He reacted 13.2 grams of N-bromosuccinimide (in 400 mL dioxane, with 1.2 liters of dioxane containing 25 grams of LSD. This gave 11 grams of crude produce which had to be recrystallized. The radioactive syntheses uses effectively elemental bromine, and gave yields of from 5 to 15%. Visualize that reaction! A warm flask containing over a quart of warm solvent in which there was maybe half a million doses of LSD.
1-Hydroxymethyl-LSD, 1-dimethylaminomethyl-LSD and 2-iodo-LSD. These three additional compounds are shown here because they were described in a synthetic flurry that followed the discovery the activity of LSD. But at the moment I know neither their internal Sandoz codes nor if they had ever been explored in man. This is a kind of frustrating catch-all entry, in that the long index will send you here, and once here you realize that nothing is known. Well, at least the compounds are known, and perhaps there is something in the Sandoz vaults that might be interesting. I do not have access to them.
MBL-61. 2-Bromo-N,N-diethyl-1-methyllysergamide. This is the compound BOL-148 (mentioned above) with a methyl group attached to the 1-position of the indole ring (LSD has a hydrogen there). This wold be an even more tantalizing challenge to the serotonin theory for centrqal activity of the psuchedelics, in that it is without any activity in man at an oral dose of 14 milligrams (similar to the inactivity of the BOL-61 compound, but it is spome five times more potent as a serotonin agonist. With it, as with the iodiniated analogue MIL, there are many examples of the compromising of scientific integrity in the quest for funds and recognition. Both compounds are as effective as LSD itself in displacing labelled LSD that is bound to the post-synaptic serotonin receptor sites in animal brains. But neither of them show any LSD-like activity. But both have been labelled with 11-C or 122-I to give positrol emitting forms that can be administered to man and localized in a positrom emition tomographt instrument (a PET scanner).
LA-111, ergine, d-lysergamide. This is an active compound and has been established as a major component in morning glory seeds. It was assayed for human activity, by Albert Hofmann in self-trials back in 1947, well before this was known to be a natural compound. An i.m. administration of a 500 microgram dose led to a tired, dreamy state with an inability to maintain clear thoughts. After a short period of sleep, the effects were gone and normal baseline was recovered within five hours. Other observers have confirmed this clouding of consciousness leading to sleep. The epimer, inverted at C-8, is isoergine or d-isolysergamide, and is also a component of morning glory seeds. Hofmann tried a 2 milligram dose of this amide, and as with ergine, he experienced nothing but tiredness, apathy, and a feeling of emptiness. Both compounds are probably correctly dismissed as not being a contributor to the action of these seeds. It is important to note that ergine, as well as lysergic acid itself, is listed as a Schedule III drug in the Controlled Substances Act, as a depressant. This is, in all probability, a stratagem to control them as logical precursors to LSD.
LAE-32, N-ethyllysergamide. Different people have observed and reported different effects, with different routes of administration. Subcutaneous administrations of from 500 to 750 micrograms have been said to produce a state of apathy and sedation. Clinical studies with dosages of 500 micrograms i.m. were felt to be less effective than the control use of 100 micrograms of LSD. And yet, oral doses of twice this amount, 1.6 milligrams, have been said to produce a short-lived LSD-like effect with none of these negatives.
LPD-824, N-Pyrrolidyllysergamide. Five trials at a dosage of 800 micrograms orally led to the reporting of a fleeting effect that was similar to one tenth this amount of LSD.
LSM-775, N-Morpholinyllysergamide. There are conflicting reports; one states that 75 micrograms is an effective dose, comparable to a similar dose of LSD, and the other stated that between 350 and 700 micrograms was needed to elicit this response, and that there were fewer signs of cardiovascular stimulation and peripheral toxicity.
DAM-57, N,N-Dimethyllysergamide. This compound did induce autonomic disturbances at oral levels of some ten times the dosage required for LSD, presumably in the high hundreds of micrograms. There is some disagreement as to whether there were psychic changes observed.
DAL, N,N-Diallyllysergamide. As the tartrate salt, there is at best a touch of sparkle seen at 600 micrograms orally, but there is a sedation also reported. It is certainly an order of magnitude less potent than LSD itself.
UML-491, Methysergide, Sansert. This is the synthetic homologue of methergine (1-methyl) and is employed clinically as a treatment for migraine headaches. When the usual therapeutic dosage of two milligrams is scaled up by a factor of ten, there is a profound LSD-like response described by most subjects. A number of these ergot analogues from nature can be considered as potential precursors for the preparation of LSD. But here, there is a 1-methyl group that is effectively permanently attached, so it cannot play this role.
-TAKEN FROM TIHKAL- From LSD-25 section.
NOTE: I had two hoffmans from the same batch with completetly different experiences, one was visual, the other was more philisophical.
-------------------------------------------
ALD-52. 1-Acetyl-N,N-diethyllysergamide. This material has been explored in the 50-175 microgram range and there are a number of human trials reported, with varying conclusions. One found that there was less visual distortion than with LSD and it seems to produce less anxiety and was somewhat less potent than LSD. Another report claimed it was more effective in increasing blood pressure. Yet another could not tell them apart. ALD-52 just may have been the drug that was sold as "Orange Sunshine" during the "Summer of Love" in the late '60's. Or "Orange Sunshine" may have been, really, LSD. This was the focus of a fascinating trial where two defendants were accused of distributing LSD, whereas they claimed that it was ALD-52 which was not an illegal drug. The prosecution claimed that as it hydrolyses readily to LSD, for all intents and purposes it was LSD, and anyway, you had to go through the illegal LSD to get to ALD-52 by any of the known chemical syntheses. The defendants were found guilty. And yet, I do not know who has actually measured the speed or ease of that reaction. If ALD-52 hydrolyses so easily to LSD, and the body is indeed a hydrolytic instrument, then these two drugs should be absolutely equivalent in every particular, This is the ergot equivalent of the psilocybin to psilocin argument, except this is an acetamide rather than a phosphate ester.
MLD-41. 1-Methyl-N,N-diethyllysergamide. The 1-methyl homologue of LSD is has more of somatic than sensory effect, has fewer visuals and is less well accepted than LSD, with the range of dosages being from 100 to 300 micrograms. This indicates that it is perhaps a third the potency of LSD which is in accord with both pupilary dilation and reflex action. However, the cardiovascular responses are actually increased. Besides being less potent than LSD, it appears to have a slower onset but it is equally long lived. There is cross-tolerance between MLD-41 and LSD.
BOL-148. 2-Bromo-N,N-diethyllysergamide. This synthetic ergot derivative, along with its 1-methyl homologue MBL-61 (mentioned below) should be used as powerful tools for studying the mechanism of action of LSD in the human animal. It does not have LSD-like effects in man. At 6 to 10 milligrams orally, there are some mental changes noted. But in another study, 20 milligrams was administered a day to a subject for 7 days, and there were no reported effects. And yet it is as potent a serotonin agonist as is LSD. How can serotonin be argued as a neurotransmitter that is a major player in explaining the action of psychedelic drugs, when this compound is nearly without activity.
There are some suggestions that an intervenous route may be more effective. I have heard of effects being noted at maybe a milligram and a short (2-3 hour) intoxicaion following 20 milligrams administered over a 20 minute period. I was involved many years ago in a study of radio-labelled BOL-148 which was made by the bromination of LSD. I was quite sure that the only radioactive material present was BOL-148, but there could well have been some unreacted LSD still present which would, of course, still be psychoactive. The synthesis is not clean -- I was tempted to make an entry for this compound if only to reproduce Albert Hofmann's original published experimental procedure. He reacted 13.2 grams of N-bromosuccinimide (in 400 mL dioxane, with 1.2 liters of dioxane containing 25 grams of LSD. This gave 11 grams of crude produce which had to be recrystallized. The radioactive syntheses uses effectively elemental bromine, and gave yields of from 5 to 15%. Visualize that reaction! A warm flask containing over a quart of warm solvent in which there was maybe half a million doses of LSD.
1-Hydroxymethyl-LSD, 1-dimethylaminomethyl-LSD and 2-iodo-LSD. These three additional compounds are shown here because they were described in a synthetic flurry that followed the discovery the activity of LSD. But at the moment I know neither their internal Sandoz codes nor if they had ever been explored in man. This is a kind of frustrating catch-all entry, in that the long index will send you here, and once here you realize that nothing is known. Well, at least the compounds are known, and perhaps there is something in the Sandoz vaults that might be interesting. I do not have access to them.
MBL-61. 2-Bromo-N,N-diethyl-1-methyllysergamide. This is the compound BOL-148 (mentioned above) with a methyl group attached to the 1-position of the indole ring (LSD has a hydrogen there). This wold be an even more tantalizing challenge to the serotonin theory for centrqal activity of the psuchedelics, in that it is without any activity in man at an oral dose of 14 milligrams (similar to the inactivity of the BOL-61 compound, but it is spome five times more potent as a serotonin agonist. With it, as with the iodiniated analogue MIL, there are many examples of the compromising of scientific integrity in the quest for funds and recognition. Both compounds are as effective as LSD itself in displacing labelled LSD that is bound to the post-synaptic serotonin receptor sites in animal brains. But neither of them show any LSD-like activity. But both have been labelled with 11-C or 122-I to give positrol emitting forms that can be administered to man and localized in a positrom emition tomographt instrument (a PET scanner).
LA-111, ergine, d-lysergamide. This is an active compound and has been established as a major component in morning glory seeds. It was assayed for human activity, by Albert Hofmann in self-trials back in 1947, well before this was known to be a natural compound. An i.m. administration of a 500 microgram dose led to a tired, dreamy state with an inability to maintain clear thoughts. After a short period of sleep, the effects were gone and normal baseline was recovered within five hours. Other observers have confirmed this clouding of consciousness leading to sleep. The epimer, inverted at C-8, is isoergine or d-isolysergamide, and is also a component of morning glory seeds. Hofmann tried a 2 milligram dose of this amide, and as with ergine, he experienced nothing but tiredness, apathy, and a feeling of emptiness. Both compounds are probably correctly dismissed as not being a contributor to the action of these seeds. It is important to note that ergine, as well as lysergic acid itself, is listed as a Schedule III drug in the Controlled Substances Act, as a depressant. This is, in all probability, a stratagem to control them as logical precursors to LSD.
LAE-32, N-ethyllysergamide. Different people have observed and reported different effects, with different routes of administration. Subcutaneous administrations of from 500 to 750 micrograms have been said to produce a state of apathy and sedation. Clinical studies with dosages of 500 micrograms i.m. were felt to be less effective than the control use of 100 micrograms of LSD. And yet, oral doses of twice this amount, 1.6 milligrams, have been said to produce a short-lived LSD-like effect with none of these negatives.
LPD-824, N-Pyrrolidyllysergamide. Five trials at a dosage of 800 micrograms orally led to the reporting of a fleeting effect that was similar to one tenth this amount of LSD.
LSM-775, N-Morpholinyllysergamide. There are conflicting reports; one states that 75 micrograms is an effective dose, comparable to a similar dose of LSD, and the other stated that between 350 and 700 micrograms was needed to elicit this response, and that there were fewer signs of cardiovascular stimulation and peripheral toxicity.
DAM-57, N,N-Dimethyllysergamide. This compound did induce autonomic disturbances at oral levels of some ten times the dosage required for LSD, presumably in the high hundreds of micrograms. There is some disagreement as to whether there were psychic changes observed.
DAL, N,N-Diallyllysergamide. As the tartrate salt, there is at best a touch of sparkle seen at 600 micrograms orally, but there is a sedation also reported. It is certainly an order of magnitude less potent than LSD itself.
UML-491, Methysergide, Sansert. This is the synthetic homologue of methergine (1-methyl) and is employed clinically as a treatment for migraine headaches. When the usual therapeutic dosage of two milligrams is scaled up by a factor of ten, there is a profound LSD-like response described by most subjects. A number of these ergot analogues from nature can be considered as potential precursors for the preparation of LSD. But here, there is a 1-methyl group that is effectively permanently attached, so it cannot play this role.
-TAKEN FROM TIHKAL- From LSD-25 section.
GreenAlien
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2000
- Messages
- 595
Yeah the sunflowers were definitely not the strongest around BUT having a whole one was definitely easier on the psyche than say having a whole Get-A-Fix (WOAAAHHHH The world really is liquid! he he) or Hoffy...
On the topic of acid does anyone know if the current Bart Simpsons (with Bart covering around 4-5 tabs rather than being on a single tabe each) are any good? My housemate has come into a few of these and looks like Fri night will be the go for tasting! Anyone?
------------------
LSD doesn't fry your brain...It e x p a n d s the mind!!
On the topic of acid does anyone know if the current Bart Simpsons (with Bart covering around 4-5 tabs rather than being on a single tabe each) are any good? My housemate has come into a few of these and looks like Fri night will be the go for tasting! Anyone?
------------------
LSD doesn't fry your brain...It e x p a n d s the mind!!
I picked up a few Bart's about 2 months ago..
From memory (which is a bit of a strain) it's got the picture of Bart taking up about 6 squares (i'm pretty sure he's got a slingshot in his back pocket) and some reddish pattern on the back...
They were quite weak.. ended up taking about 4 over the period of the night.. only getting decent visuals by about the third one... but hopefully these are a different batch (argghhh.... there's been no strong acid lately!!!!)
anyway.... hope that helps...
From memory (which is a bit of a strain) it's got the picture of Bart taking up about 6 squares (i'm pretty sure he's got a slingshot in his back pocket) and some reddish pattern on the back...
They were quite weak.. ended up taking about 4 over the period of the night.. only getting decent visuals by about the third one... but hopefully these are a different batch (argghhh.... there's been no strong acid lately!!!!)
anyway.... hope that helps...
GreenAlien
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2000
- Messages
- 595
riichee -> Thanks for that! I'm hoping these ones are similar to the sunflowers cos they weren't half bad. If they're like the Hoffy's or GetAFixes then I'd be most happy indeed! he he he no strong acid around hey? Always a good thing to keep a couple of the winners aside just in case (I have some Hoffy's and a few GetAFixes packed away for a rainy day!).
Orion -> Yeah sometimes strong acid is not good but it all depends on what sort of time you want, environment, etc. Sometimes you just want a hit that will see you cruising, like on a Saturday when you have to clean the car, house, etc
------------------
LSD doesn't fry your brain...It e x p a n d s the mind!!
Orion -> Yeah sometimes strong acid is not good but it all depends on what sort of time you want, environment, etc. Sometimes you just want a hit that will see you cruising, like on a Saturday when you have to clean the car, house, etc
------------------
LSD doesn't fry your brain...It e x p a n d s the mind!!
Orion
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2000
- Messages
- 295
Nah, i meant a REAL adverse affect.
I will say first though that it depends on the persons tolerance.
But this is primarily based on my own personal experience with trips but i have had some T's that have not been as strong as others and had a wild time.
Too much cid can bring on TOO much of a sensory overload.
Pushing visuals aside, i've found it more evident in things like trying to talk. (i hate it when i'm sometimes incapable of speech) Involuntary muscle spasms, etc.
But... when i think about it, maybe a large part of it is frame of mind and self-control.
Hmmmm.....
whats that say about me???!!!
GET ME A DOCTOR!!
I will say first though that it depends on the persons tolerance.
But this is primarily based on my own personal experience with trips but i have had some T's that have not been as strong as others and had a wild time.
Too much cid can bring on TOO much of a sensory overload.
Pushing visuals aside, i've found it more evident in things like trying to talk. (i hate it when i'm sometimes incapable of speech) Involuntary muscle spasms, etc.
But... when i think about it, maybe a large part of it is frame of mind and self-control.
Hmmmm.....
whats that say about me???!!!
GET ME A DOCTOR!!
I've had the sunflowers and couldn't say they were anything like MDMA.
They don't produce much un the way of visuals or insights, a lot like the Marilym Munroe's going around.
They made me giggle and have a pretty non-confrontational experience...not what I'd call a "real" trip.
Great for a social setting when you don't want to be too wiggy.
There are still Hoffy's and Gedda's available if you look hard enough...save them for out-doors, and bring a few trippers with you
They don't produce much un the way of visuals or insights, a lot like the Marilym Munroe's going around.
They made me giggle and have a pretty non-confrontational experience...not what I'd call a "real" trip.
Great for a social setting when you don't want to be too wiggy.
There are still Hoffy's and Gedda's available if you look hard enough...save them for out-doors, and bring a few trippers with you
I like the sunflowers. You cannot compare them to hofmanns or getafix cuz they are nowhere near as strong. But they feel pretty clean.
I understand what is meant by 'they felt like E'. I dropped sunflower just the other day and I had the acid cheekyness and giggles (visuals were lacking), I felt very happy and lovey too. Overall a very nice trip.
The Barts at the moment are meant to be pretty supreme too. I Didnt get a good look @ the picture (oops) but I think its still the same slingshot pic. it had lots of red.
I think Learys R shit, no nice visuals except stupid grass moving and annoying me, and they made me feel extremely skatterd.
I understand what is meant by 'they felt like E'. I dropped sunflower just the other day and I had the acid cheekyness and giggles (visuals were lacking), I felt very happy and lovey too. Overall a very nice trip.
The Barts at the moment are meant to be pretty supreme too. I Didnt get a good look @ the picture (oops) but I think its still the same slingshot pic. it had lots of red.
I think Learys R shit, no nice visuals except stupid grass moving and annoying me, and they made me feel extremely skatterd.
Sounds like my kinda trip... after a few freak outs, i think something like sunflowers would help me get back into tripping without losing the plot
------------------
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with tomato sauce.
------------------
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with tomato sauce.