Tagamet/Grapefruit Juice -> Dihydrocodeine?

ok, i know that tagamet and grapefruit juice contain some chemical or something that inhibits the production of an enzyme that breaks down hydrocodone and oxycodoone, thereby increasing their highs.

I also know that this same chemical in tagamet and grapefruit juice will decrease the high of codeine, because it inhibits the breakdown of codeine into morphine.

Now, my question is - and i have searched everywhere - what about DIHYDROCODEINE? - i know that it is a different chem than codeine and hydrocodne and oxy codone -

Would taking tagamet/grapefruit juice prior to dihydrocodeine either a) increase b) decrease or c) have no effect on the its high? Thanks!

Oh come on! Where are all the "opiate experts" I see on here constantly going on about which combos are best, which high is best, how to increase the highs, what their favorite opiate is, which receptors affect whic, etc. Were are you?

read http://codeine.50g.com/info/dhc.html (the metabolism section, in particular)

this site has been referred to numerous times in previous threads...

I know, I've been to it numerous times. Copy and paste the part under metabolism that answers my question. Dare ya

if grapefruit juice and/or tagament actually provided enough benefit, it might matter, but they don't, so it doesn't. the myth is that they boost your high. the truth is that it isn't enough to notice, except by placebo effect.

"The cytochrome P450-2D6 (CYP2D6) is the major enzyme mediating O-demethylation of dihydrocodeine to dihydromorphine. In contrast, nordihydrocodeine formation is predominantly catalysed by cytochrome P450-3A (CYP3A). "

im suprised its so difficult for you to go to a web page and find the info... oh and youre welcome.

How does that prove that tagamet increases the high of dihydrocodeine? All that says is which enzyme mediates the O-demethylation into dihydromorphine. Still waiting....

Oh, and to natural one, tagamet DOES work. ive never tried grapefruit juice, but tagamet most DEFINITELY works. Its increase on the actual high is only about 5-10% tops, but it increases the duration by at least 30-40%. Try it. Take 600 mg of cimetidine, then 45 minutes later, take some tums or antacids, then 15 minutes after that (one hour after taking the tagamet [cimetidine] - drop your hydrocodone/oxycodone) - and then YOU tell ME if its placebo.

I have taken the exact same dosages of hydrocodone with tagamet (using method described above) AND without, and I did them a month apart from one another, so that i would have no opiate tolerance. I basically like performed an experiment on myself to see if it was bullshit. It's not. Why don't you try it yourself - see what happens. If you don't think it's helping, you're probably not taking enough opiates to get off anyway.

BTW, to naturalone..... i have no enmity towards you. I didn't mean to type "dare ya" that was gay. Honestly, I am just really trying to find out. If i am misinterpreting it in anyway, please explain.

PhorIndicator said:

How does that prove that tagamet increases the high of dihydrocodeine? All that says is which enzyme mediates the O-demethylation into dihydromorphine. Still waiting....

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i didnt expect you to have so much trouble figuring it out. cimetidine inhibits CYP2D6, the same enzyme used to break down dihydrocodeine (and hydrocodone too), therefore it would likely have a similar potentiating effect.

So sorry to fail to fulfill your expectations.... how completely asinine of me.

BTW - thanks for clarifying.

Actually, you almost got it completely right...except, you want to take your cimetidine with your tums (or a half tsp. of baking soda in a quarter cup water- it has more acid neutralizing power than most stuff out there), as the cimetidine is better absorbed in a less acidic environment....
...then take your hydrocodone about 45 minutes later for maximum effect from this "inhibitory cocktail"...Cheers, PhorIndicator...


p.s. Then about 7-10 mins. after the hydrocodone, throw down another of the same dosage of baking soda water, as hydrocodone is also better absorbed in a less acidic environment- then you've taken this cocktail to the limit, as far as altering the pH of the stomach for better absorption of both drugs, and inhibition of the CYP 2D6 enzyme to delay the metabolism of hydrocodone...have fun!

k

50 mg hydrocodone, 2 darvocets, 8 mg klonopin, half a bottle of crown royal, amd 4 bewers did the trick

Are you joking?
Christ man. Be careful.

Actually, CYP2D6 only converts a tiny (less than 10%, probably around 5% ) portion of the DHC to dihydromorphine, IIRC. Most is converted to nordihydrocodeine by CYP3A4, which incidentally, and against what you'd expect, is far more potent than dihydromorphine.

What I've been wondering is whether dihydrocodeine is active in and of itself, or is a prodrug like codeine, which, to have an effect, must be converted to nordihydrocodeine?

If not, you could use grapefruit. If the nordihyd. is far more potent than the dhc/the dhc only has a minimal effect, or if the dhc has no effect before being metabolized, then the grapefruit would be counterproductive.

=/

so blase, would taking the tagamet/graprfruit be beneficial or not w/ dihydrocodeine?"

blase deviant said:

Actually, CYP2D6 only converts a tiny (less than 10%, probably around 5% ) portion of the DHC to dihydromorphine, IIRC. Most is converted to nordihydrocodeine by CYP3A4, which incidentally, and against what you'd expect, is far more potent than dihydromorphine.

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Technically, this is true, Blase, but realistically, that's okay. Because cimetidine is a potent inhibitor of many cytochrome pathways. It works even better at inhibiting CYP-3A4 than 2D6. In fact, cimetidine is a potent inhibitor of the following enzymatic pathways: CYP-1A2, 2C9, 2D6, and especially 3A4. So, it would still work (and work pretty well, at that...).

Cool. I'm still curious whether DHC is active before being metabolized though.... has anyone tried this?

ALso..... so are we saying that dihydrocodeine is an entirely different compound than codeine as far as its metabolism as relates to tagamet/gp juice?

naturalone said:

if grapefruit juice and/or tagament actually provided enough benefit, it might matter, but they don't, so it doesn't. the myth is that they boost your high. the truth is that it isn't enough to notice, except by placebo effect.

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they don't noticebly boost the high but they certainly prolong it

How dose it go with tagamet?