Loved Up vs. Fucked Up

Loved Up vs. Fucked Up.
or
Reasons We Get So Many Shite Speedbombs.
I conducted a bit of a survey last night as I meandered through the city parties that I attended. Most of the people I chose to speak to were either fairly obviously (to me) rolling their arses off, or looking to get rid of pills somehow. Initially, my survey was for my own curiosity, to see what pills were around, and what was getting good and bad reviews. However, after about the first 45 minutes of talking to people, I began to see a trend which I found a little distasteful, but also a little revealing about the state of business in Melbourne. As has been mentioned previously in the "Mini Pillreport" thread, there are a lot of different speedbombs going around Melbourne at the moment (and I guess everywhere else too), and this steady flow of business is periodically flushed with a batch or two of quality MDMA pills that come and go within a week or two at a time.
While chatting to people this weekend, I noticed that the majority were either on, or trying to offload, speedbombs. Some pills discussed were either what I suspected or knew to be speedbombs, and others I had never heard of, or sounded dodgy and the person did not look to be experiencing MDMA. The disturbing trend, however, was that everyone seemed to have a completely opposite view to myself. The people who were on speedy pills seemed content that they had value for their money and were happily fucked up and charging away. The people who actually got good pills, and I'd have expected to be euphorically enjoying themselves, were looking mopey and whinging about being "sm**ked out".
I mean, forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't that what they paid for? Shit, put down good money for good MDMA, it does its job, and you have a great night... that's what I thought the objective was. But no, it appears that the majority of people that I spoke to (mostly in and around Cage/Billboards) were more interested in their "dancey" speedbombs and getting fucked up. It's no wonder that the market is flooded with shite bickies when that's what the clientele are demanding.
I said to a few people "why don't you just get some speed instead of paying so much for a pill which is basically just speed anyway?" to which many and varied responses, including "Nah man, speed doesn't work on me", "I get nausea from speed", and "No way, I'm not getting addicted to that shit" (!). I guess I should have expected that, but up until last night I really hadn't taken into account just how many people go out and eat any pill they can find, just hoping to have their head rush for a few hours so they can dance without getting tired. To the people on good pills, when I gave a smile and said "oh that must be a relief, how lucky for you" they were more likely to frown and tell me "yeah having an OK night but I got a shitty pill that has really sm**ked me out, I can't dance", or "*sigh* oh well bad luck I'm just really tired, I might see if I can get some of those cool question marks, and turn my night around". *boggle* Do they know they're taking MDMA? I suppose I seemed rude when I accidentally laughed out loud, in people's faces, when they told me they thought their bickies had heroin in them because they couldn't dance, or that they were on a 'cokey' pill.
Is it access to quality information on Bluelight that turns one into an MDMA-snob so quickly, or can one become a kind of connoisseur of ecstacy simply because they refuse to take anything other than confirmed purple/black testing, quality pills? I guess it could come back to money too, because no matter what you do, you're being ripped off, but personally I don't see the benefit in paying 35-50 dollars for a pill that doesn't contain MDMA... and a simple EZ or E test is so easy to do.
It would be really nice, just for once, to see people being loved up and having fun on MDMA for a while, instead of seeing the aggro speedy people's frowns combined with the mopey downturned people who don't know MDMA if it falls in their lap.
No wonder there are so many shit pills around.
BigTrancer
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Anyone remember where I lost it?

Indeed BT. My friend & occasional dd tells me the 'speedy' pills sell much quicker because people think they are better quality. She actually like them better herself than the 'smacky' ones. (She doesn't test & doesn't really know what's in her pills but product knowledge has never exactly been outstanding in this industry, has it?)
I think this idea that e is supposed to feel speedy comes from that old-school giant rave image of everyone dancing all night. I personally don't dance anywhere near as much when i take a good e & sometimes not at all. When i'm speeding, on the other hand, nothing could drag me off the dancefloor.
I understand why people enjoy their 'speedies' but not why they pay mdma prices for them. I guess it's their money, Ralph.
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to the crazy person, the normal one is insane

BT , I have to agree that a number of people (be it getting close to a majority?) are not finding the mdXX pills to there liking but bring it on i say. When i see one of my friends with that disturbed yet euphoric (wry grin and vacant stare) look on their face the first words normally coming out are 'man , I am sooo fucked' followed by hugs and laughter and several hours of stupidity/activity which seems to ooze love.
That is what I pay money for.
Granted speed is good for dancing hard all night and going good the next day , but given the option at falling around on an mdma pill or storming off on a speed bomb I know what I will choose.
Let them eat speed.
p.s speed and I are very good friends and kick around quite a bit , but ya know , mdma is like a lover that you never want to let go of........you know that they are not the right thing for you , but when they are not around you start wondering if you will see them again.......
*********scattered me is going*********

BT, that is definately THE most inciteful and informed post I've ever read.
Seriously dude, you couldn't have put it better. It raises issues like:
- why people take drugs
- what constitutes a 'good' night
- the knowledge (or lack of) most buyers
- the state of the Oz drug scene
If I was the Prime Minister of raving, I would force punters to read your message before they dabble with substances.
With much Respect,
Captain Tim.
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truth is not an attribute of any one view, but of the dialogue between them

I think the attitude that people have developed about MDMA is mainly due to the dance scene. Think of it in lay terms, like you'r an outsider looking in. What would you think MDMA's effects are. I have had a similiar conversation with the people at work about this. From what they see, have been told and common sense, they believe that E makes you all speedy. Thats why people take it - to dance all night long. People entereing the scene also believe this and therefore many believe that a speedy pill is in actual fact MDMA. Hence all the rumours about herion being in pills.
I guess we are lucky in a way - we have a wealth of information at our fingertips, we also have self respect and like to know what we are ingesting. It's because of this that we know what MDMA is and it's true effects. It doesn't supprise me at all BT that you ran into people like this with such attitudes. Before I came to Bluelight I thought the same way they did - not because of pure ignorance, but because E is promoted to be a rave drug - and you dance all night at a rave..right?
It's these attitudes and beliefs that filter to the public and the media. As much a I love to party I can't help but feel that the rave scene is doing immense damage to the credibility of MDMA. This damage eventually effects proper education and harm minimisations attempts. How many people know that MDMA was used by therapists? How many people know the powerful life changing and self realisation properties of MDMA?
Finally, how many people know of MDMA as the drug of the rave scene where young people can dance all night without be weary?
Tell me if I'm wrong? Look deep inside and you'll see why people believe a speedy pill is a good pill. It's public perception - and as has been the fight to decriminalise marijuana - it all starts with the changing of the public's perception - both those in the scene and those out of it, as both are just as misinformed.
Peace
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"Never trust a man who, when left alone in a room with a tea cozy, doesn't try it on" - Billy Connolly

great topic, BT
I think you've just proved that legalising mdma would not increase mdma usage overall...it would actually increase speed usage
I've also noticed that these people tend to have a "soft drug" attitude towards ecstasy. I wonder if they'd be so eager to take it if it wasn't available in pretty little pills with designer labels.
I have a few aquaintances that are totally against "hard drugs" like coke and smack, but will munch any pill they can get their hands on, and then tell me that "it was a coke-based e" or "it was a smack pill" (and then go on to take the same pill again)
I believe that some people like to think that e contains coke or smack. They get the "glamour" of taking coke or the "danger" of heroin, without being perceived as a hard drug user.
Some of my anti-drug friends are very reluctant to believe any of the evidence I present to them that dispells the myths they spout at me. They assume that because I use drugs, I will twist the truth to justify my usage of them (which just proves they never bother to read any of the articles I show them).
This attitude pisses me off for many reasons, but mostly because these same people will believe other drug users they know who propagate myths about how evil drugs are. They know how much time and effort I put into educating myself on drugs, and yet they would rather believe someone who brags about taking something that they think is fucking them up. I once had an argument with a friend who claimed that taking a tab of acid kills off one square centimetre of braincells. When I asked him where his evidence was, he replied that he had been told it by "a couple of guys who take shitloads of acid" (these guys, by his reasoning, would have very little braincells left at all).
There's a quote in one of my addiction studies textbooks that sums it up perfectly: "I believe what I hear as I listen to myself speak". People will believe what they want to. Why? Security. Our beliefs are formed (or forced upon us?) very early on in life and they're a huge part of who we are. To have these beliefs challenged is pretty scary...just look at how upset kids get if you tell them Santa Claus doesn't exist
You only have to look at most of the major conflicts in human history to see some people think their beliefs are far more important than other people's lives. The scary thing is that its not just dictators and psychopaths that think this way...
I heard a preview on the radio for the movie The Filth and the Fury (about the Sex Pistols) and they had a guy on a tv show saying something like, "This band would be greatly improved by sudden death".
Also on the radio, a debate about national pride. Some wanker phoned in and said that Australia needed a war to restore national pride. Apparently, getting all teary-eyed when we hear the national anthem is worth a few million lives.
But I digress...(as usual )
People like to believe that drugs fuck you up because:
a) it makes them look like a good person for not taking them.
or
b) it makes them look like a "cool" person for taking them.
The problem is that ecstasy seems to be the drug of the moment...will it blow over? I hope so, but the fad will stay long enough to do some serious damage to mdma's image
The solution? Don't bother preaching to the ignorant (you know the people I mean). Just laugh at them If you try and educate them, they just take it as opposition to their rebellion and revel in the attention. You're reinforcing their belief that they are "fucked up", and therefore saying that they're cool (in their own eyes).
Educate those who want to learn, don't waste your time on the ignorant fuckers...the more people we have to laugh at them, the better
ok, no more rambling, I promise (this is what staying home on a saturday night does to me! )

I had an interesting conversation with a guy last night, who knew what he was talking about. He made a living out of selling drugs.
He knew about MDMA, and knew about SPEED. But the funny thing is, he was unable to be honest. He was really into the drug sub-culture but could not let it be known that he knew almost nothing about 2C-B. The guy mentioned that he knows a lot about drugs. Though when I asked him if he knew where I could get NEXUS, he went on to ramble about it being some shit that is E/SPEED/COKE put together.
Later on he continued to ramble and completely discredited himself by not allowing himself to be critical of himself. I don't want to proclaim self-rightousness, but why don't people admit when they don't know something, instead of just making it up. You don't learn if you don't ask, but I feel like many people(including myself) are to inflated in ego, to admit that they don't know really all that much.
I guess that is why I want to read, learn, explore new territory, but within the bound of what I have learnt from others.
The thing is, others limits may go beyond the limits of safety. Like the guy who has 6 pills in one night!

Some quotes from last night at The Church:
"the average Perth pill has 90mg of MDMA but the windmills have 200+" 200mg yeah right
"I guarentee you that if it tests black that is speed and orange indicates MDMA" This from a fairly significant dd. He truly believed this too, he asked a buddy to back him up and his buddy shut him down
"the windmills are 97% pure MDMA" umm binder?
and my favourite
"too many Perth Pills have smack in them....I just want to dance"
I've given up arguing with others over this stuff.

lep: like when you ask someone if they know what 5htp is, and they say yes and then bullshit on about it like its a schedule I designer drug

You mean it's not - damn!!!!!
I run into to many people who think they know it all but know shit in the end - it's people like that that frustrate me, cause you know they are so pig headed they are not even open minded enough to listen to what you have to say. Very sad in the end
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"Never trust a man who, when left alone in a room with a tea cozy, doesn't try it on" - Billy Connolly

Give me the smile on anyone's face that has had MDMA and thats enough for me.I would gladly sit and watch that smile rather than dance (not saying i don't like to dance) there is just something in that smile that pure pleasure.
Education is the answer here ,we need to get out and tell our friends what they are missing out on by taking these crappy speed bombs.
*********************
Reality is an illusion
created by the lack of good drugs

After reading this thread, i've realized that most of the pills i've munched have probably been speedbombs. Me and my friends usually don't have a prob with this cos we prefer dancing all nite but if we're paying $30 - $50 for what we think is MDMA,(pls don't have a go at me for not ez testing- i'm gettiing one this week!), would it be better if we just took speed instead??? i don't know much about goey. how much is it usually??? how much is enough for the weekend eg fri and sat nite? and what is the best wat of taking it? (snort, water, parachuting, gums etc etc)
cheers
gooby

I think there is some misconception about MDMA and being smacked out. That is more likely to be the result of MDA or MDEA rather than MDMA. I have been doing a bit of net surfing and have read that MDA can give you a stoned, heavy feeling which sounds, to me, like being smacked out. I have had pure MDMA powder before and it isn't like speed and it isn't a smacky feeling. It's more like every cell in your body is effervescing with joy and smiling at the same time. You can choose to dance forever or you can babble for ages with someone but if you do that, you have to try so hard not to wrap yourself around them with the biggest hug imaginable.
speed=speed
MDMA=pure joy, clean headedness, extreme desire to cuddle people, energy, profound interest in everyday things...all things good
MDA & MDEA= never had pure form before but the cause of the so called smackiness people complain of

Last couple of weeks got kinda the same report from people..."Sure I like the mdma pills but I also like them a bit dancy rather than them sitting me down" . You can't deny that this is what a lot of people want. Its just funny listening to them when they get a really good (mdma) pill.
...we had the "we are connissour's" convo in the car last sat night hehe
as for myself.... mdma all the waaaaaay. Whatever you are in the mood in, it will help you achive it. I know if I want to dance bigtime on mdma I will go absoultely BALISTIC, if I want to have a good sit down and babble I will do that. If I want to chase the ball I will chase it and chase it haaaaard .

BT, I totally agree with the concern about the amount of speedbombs out there. Not only because the popularity of them by a growing number of people makes getting real e's harder but also I'm worried that people are taking a drug that is much more addictive than they thought. If people are taking speed week in week out without knowing it they could develop a strong physical need.
Slighty OT but has there been any discussion here about getting a printed copy of the FAQ? I'm talking about a nice glossy flyer type which could be handed out at clubs/parties.

Sorry guys - watch this space for my reply.
I had a huge post that took me just over an hour to compose ready to submit and my PC crashed and I lost the lot.
BigTrancer.

I pretty much dont bother discussing it in clubs anymore.
People just want to have fun, and alot of them dont want to know whats in it.
All I simply do now is right down the web site www.pillreports.com and let them find out for themselves.
Not everyone has tasted mdma before so a good speedy pill will get the thumbs up from alot of people.
I recall when I got back from the UK, I wasnt to impressed with Green CU's...couldnt dacne hard on them. Thats not to say I had been having speedy pills before, its just that the European ones are alot cleaner. This probably incorparates some mdma Vs mdea debate. I think if everyone had the choice they'd take an mdma pill anyday. If it was an mdea pill on offer, well a combo of an mdea and a speed pill, would prolly work just as nicely.

* bump *
Just so big trancer does that repost..

it's all about supply and demand
and the fact that i am fucken sick of it.
bring back the green euro's. i haven't rolled properly since nye. *sob, crying, tears*
i thought i was on a winner with my mitsa triangles but let down again.
i am sick of wasting a weekend on a bad pill and spending the rest of it sleeping to recover!!
haven't given up hope, don't worry but the search for some good mdma continues
sorry, just realised this is in the wrong thread
ah, who cares
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rollin' and strollin', its kinda like bowlin'. my head's kinda big and it feels kinda swollin'!!

Click to expand...

[This message has been edited by narks (edited 07 August 2000).]

Well, lets see if I can recapture anything of what I wrote yesterday. *sigh* I was saying to Soma, I was so into the post that I was writing and I felt like I was really coming up with something - it was like having a deep and meaningful conversation with my brain, but when my machine froze and I lost it all, I felt so deflated I just couldn't start again then. Here we go - hopefully it will make sense.
In general I agree with the replies to my original post, and I wanted to thank everyone for their insightful comments.
I was thinking that with lower doses of MDMA that the dance/sit argument is fairly much personal choice. It's always hard to know your exact dosage unless you're measuring out MDMA powder (and even then, purity is dubious) but you usually can tell whether you have a strong or average pill. I find that with lower doses that movement during dancing is effortless, and your body feels almost like liquid, any dance moves you try seem 'right' and it's really easy to just go and go. The attraction of course is always there to chatter away to people and connect empathically with everyone, so it's just as easy to sit down and while away the hours, enjoying people's company. At higher doses however, the cleanliness of the mind effects, and the accompanying waves of pleasure tend to make me want to just enjoy the physical feelings without the need for frenetic activity, so taking a comfortable seat and being at one with myself is a must. I've been told on many occasions after this party or that, that I "didn't seem to be as smiley as usual" or similar comments - particularly on a night when I've dosed way up there. I think perhaps there's a tendency to internalise the euphoria at a certain point, and become slightly selfish by concentrating solely on your own enjoyment. Maybe that's why people who're expecting to dance all night and be everyone's best friend feel like they're not on the 'right stuff' when they get a really good bickie. Also, I think that some people may not know what to expect from their speed; maybe they're looking for a prolonged head rush and intoxication rather than a cleaner, non psychoactive inexhaustible energy reserve to enable them to keep going and going like the energiser bunny.
I agree with Haste's comments about the public perception of ecstacy in general. People probably often are unsure of what to expect when they take their first pill, and so they have to just go on what they feel. If they are given speedbombs as a matter of course for their first experiences, then I'm sure they become used to the feeling, and associate that with 'ecstacy'. It's no surprise then that the different feeling of a decent thump of MDMA can take them unawares and leave them wondering. Actually, I can see the fun in a speedy pill, especially with an additive such as ketamine, 2C-B, or otherwise, but I think that people should know as much as they can to enable them to assess the risks they are willing to take. To my mind it's notionally a small leap for a chemist who's already making pills with an active ingredient other than MDMA to, if other non-active ingredients are in short supply, substitute for whatever is at hand. I mean, if they're shortcutting on the active (and expensive) ingredients, would they think twice about substituting for fillers if they were running low?
It's true too that a surface impression of a rave is of a huge dance party with people frantically dancing for hours on end, and I think that too little is made of the social aspect of these parties. Personally I really enjoy the empathy of a rave environment, where many likeminded people have gathered together in what's not exactly one nation under a groove, but is at least generally an accepting, tolerant and friendly setting.
E Bee's comments about education are right on the money - it is always difficult to educate an audience whose predominant viewpoint is the polar opposite of the one you are presenting. Moreover, if the 'enlightened' presenter is viewed as one who is not impartial, but sympathetic to the ideas they are teaching, then their task is doubly difficult as they are seen to be tipping the scales in favour of their 'chosen' stance on the issue. Whilst it is true to a large extent that we tell ourselves, and others what we want to hear, how is this different to any other opinion or viewpoint on any issue? People always believe what they want to, evidence or no, and I think E Bee's examples illustrate that clearly ("who are you to tell me the earth is not flat?!"). The challenge comes in presenting people with enough evidence that can be seen to be verified and impartial to allow them to come to their own (and hopefully the desired) conclusions. When they come to that viewpoint on their own terms, then they will hopefully be more convinced than having to accept someone else's ideas. This is however, not easy when one is attempting to use a feather of truth to shift the weight of years of half- (or ill-) informed untruths.
It is worth persevering though, because each person who is educated correctly can then teach others the right information.
How do people know who to trust for information though? It seems, as Leprechaun mentioned, that everyone is out to make a name for themselves as the person with the most information about these socially taboo topics. People will obviously look to their friends for information as they already implicitly trust their 'experience' and so any misconceptions are passed on. Obviously in the same way, we as users of this website try to provide the most accurate information on a regular basis so that we gains respect in the eyes of those who wish to learn. The important thing is that if we do not know the answers, that we be willing to remain silent until such as time as we have done some research and hopefully can fill in the gaps authoritatively.
With regards to the questions about speed, a lot of it is really based on personal preference. As always, if in doubt do less first, because you can always take more later. The price of speed will of course vary on the quality/quantity, and the connections of the seller. Invariably people will again attempt to gain respect by saying that they can get it cheaper and better than everyone else, but street prices are often around $25-40 per gram of cut speed (maybe I'm underestimating?), and maybe around the same mark for points (one point = 0.1 gram) of "pure" base or even less if bought in quantity. It depends on the situation, of course, and your preference whether you buy base or cut speed. The amount and consumption method are again up to personal choice, you can always top up though. Some people might like to have 1/2 a point for a night while others may enjoy to take far more, and some prefer snorting while others can't stand it so they capsule the speed or mix with water and drink, etc.
Which kind of brings me full circle to the MDMA sit vs. dance topic. I think that taking a good strong dose of MDMA, supplemented with a few lines of good speed, is a combination that really works well, and gives you the lovely clean MDMA rushes and the energetic dance-all-night of the speed. Best of both worlds?
BigTrancer