PDA

View Full Version : Grapefruit Juice w/ Methadone....does it potentiate?



Dependence03
23-10-2004, 16:39
I know it does for other oral opiods...what about this one?

rivered1
23-10-2004, 16:46
Not sure if it does potent other oral opiates. In theory it should, but the many times I tried to do so there were no increased effects of the opiods/opiates. A placebo if anything. So unless you have first hand experience with this don't be so quick to assume its correct.

Dependence03
23-10-2004, 17:16
Hmm...i seem to remember trying it back in the day when my tolerance was low enough to use opiates orally. Grapefruit juice potentiates benzodiazapines and opiates...among other pharmaceuticals. Does it work for methadone, now that is the question. :|

djfriendly
23-10-2004, 19:36
Erowid says maybe.

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/opiates/opiates_info3.shtml

negrogesic
23-10-2004, 21:55
I have tried it and it never seemed to work well. Why not just take some cimetidine?

rachamim18
24-10-2004, 00:35
Negro,I am flabbergasted!Any citric juice does the opposite with methadone.It depletes the bodys reserves [eats through the dose].Never drink any citrus juice with methadone.

rachamim18
24-10-2004, 00:40
Another prevalent myth is that one can somehow potentiate methadone by combining it with benzos.Wrong,again it acts in the opposite fashion.you will get more of a nod for the first few hours but in the end it will "eat through your dose."

The one proven way to potentiate it is to consume the closest [in terms of structure] substance.Take Darvon...I know it sounds weak but its proven and more importantly its safe [in reasonable doses].

Dependence03
24-10-2004, 06:53
so drinking grapefruit juice this morning ate through my dose? Also negro...what is this substance you speak of that will potentiate it?:X

dwfan
24-10-2004, 11:18
Cimetidine=Tagamet----a med used to treat acid reflux.

negrogesic
24-10-2004, 20:01
Negro,I am flabbergasted!Any citric juice does the opposite with methadone.It depletes the bodys reserves [eats through the dose].Never drink any citrus juice with methadone.

I know, vitamin C seems to make methadone not work nearly as well as it should, that why i dont take multi-vitamins or citrus juices. I tried grapefruit juice once, honestly i wasnt really experimenting, it was all that was in my fridge, because it was either that or beer (which also makes methadone work poorly). I definately try to stay from citrus drinks and vitamin C.

But i do find that a little food (non-greasy), mainly simple/complex carbohydrates, help the methadone kick in a little faster/stronger.

But yes, it does seem stupid that i drank grapefruit juice with my methadone, but it was either that or beer (i didnt want to drink the nasty heavily chlorinated tap water i get in my apartment). I didnt go into withdrawal or anything, but i definately didnt help. But i really didnt mean to take grapefruit juice with the methadone, it was sort of a fluke.

Bottom line, dont take citrus drinks or vitamin C with methadone........

Cimetidine seems to possibly work, depending on who you talk to, i dont really feel it does much other than possibly increase the duration. But i dont take anything with my methadone aside from a little food, and BOTTLED water......

x0r
24-10-2004, 22:53
so i suppose that orange juice stuff thats mixed with my daily meth serving is not citric containing? unless for some oddball reason it is purposely mixed with it.. i dunno

is tagamet otc or only by perscription?

rachamim18
24-10-2004, 23:27
That orange crap in your cup at the clinic is sugar and food coloring.Its a soft drink concentrate akin to Kool-Aid but much nastier.Unless of course you get orange Diskettes in which case that orange crap is the good shit.

Negro:Nope,you wont go into instant detox but it just will not hold you as long.I still drink citrus but I am a maniac anyway [banking].I did hear that the ulcer medication does in fact work but I still say that the surest bet is Darvon or Darvocet.

atrain
25-10-2004, 03:43
x0r, tagamet is otc in the states and can be had for much cheaper under the generic name, cimetidine.

uumpaloompa
25-10-2004, 04:14
most stuff that is suppose to "potentiate" hardly ever feels like it does a damn thing. the only thing i can really vouch for is cimetidine (an acid reducer), which really only made my high last slightly longer. other than that, your best way to get higher is to up your dose. potentiators are such a waste of time.

Bradshaw2727
25-10-2004, 04:42
For me, tagamet seems to make my buzz last longer. It also seems to make it a lot "noddier". Try it out for yourself. Some people swear that grapefruit potentiates opiates big time, but I'm sure it works differently with different types of opiates.

malfunkshun
25-10-2004, 04:59
is tagamet OTC or prescription? and in my experience, with my relatively low opiate tolerance, grapefruit juice is a good potentiator. maybe with peeps with high tolerance it isn't so great.

TheTruth
25-10-2004, 06:37
Originally posted by atrain
x0r, tagamet is otc in the states and can be had for much cheaper under the generic name, cimetidine.

at least read the thread before asking the question...

Paregoric Kid
20-05-2005, 19:45
I don't mean to bump an old post but does rachamim have a source that says citric juices "eat through" methadone? I've only found sources that say it potentiates methadone through cytochrome inhibition

rachamim18
20-05-2005, 19:52
Just give me a few minutes to dig them out. It is actually pretty much common knowledge but I will do it for you since you asked kindly.

RoboticOpiateMaster
20-05-2005, 19:58
Originally posted by rachamim18
That orange crap in your cup at the clinic is sugar and food coloring.

No, it's tang.

tastes like sunny delight.

rachamim18
20-05-2005, 20:02
O.K. You are confusing two issues...but it is a common error. While grapefruit juice does contain a substance that does potentiate opiate/opioid metabolisation it also contains vitamin c [in a big way] which unfortunately negates any of this potentiating effect in methadon usage by lowering [again in a big way] a user's methadone plasma level.

I do not have my notes with me as I am not at home but just did a cursory check via "Google" and came up with one bonafide that should satisfy you. The Addiction Treatment Forum mentions it in their journal. The one I just checked was the spring 97 issue but any reputable source on the substance will mention it.

I have tried to include a url for the above mentioned source but it did not fly. Simply do a search for "vitamin c effecting methadone plasma levels," etc.

Paregoric Kid
20-05-2005, 20:06
dammit, never thought of that. it's very misleading that people say it "potentiates" methadone. good thing I have tagamet handy

rachamim18
20-05-2005, 20:12
You have it. The thing is, people usually latch onto one thing without considering the other possible consequences.

Paregoric Kid
20-05-2005, 20:22
I am reading that you'd need to be ingesting something like 4grams of vitamin c to decrease methadones effects and that it is decreased because it changes the ph. what if you took baking soda or something else to neutralize it?

paradoxcycle
20-05-2005, 20:34
Originally posted by RoboticOpiateMaster
No, it's tang.

tastes like sunny delight.

Tang IS sugar and food coloring.

Technical User
20-05-2005, 22:02
grapefruit juice and any drugs that have an effect on P450 cytochrome enzyme can either increase serum level or decrease serum levels so while being a potentiator or not: is this the best thing to do for daily MMT.

I am going to do more research on this, because I am quite interested in the tagament reply . I have been thinking about this for a couple weeks now..

I am thinking that if you load up on tagament say if you know you are going to miss a dose or say if your heroin dealer is going to be gone till the evening, that the effects on the enzyme would equal a way less painful sickness..

any info on that^^^

twgburst
20-05-2005, 23:36
I have taken xanax on methadone for almost 2 years now, it may shorten the effects in the long run, but who gets high off of methadone for 24 hours? If you take your dose and alprazolam your dose will kick in stronger and you will get high longer. Overall though, if methadone and xanax were such a bad combo I don't see how come almost half of the clinics i've gone to the people had street benzo habbits or used benzos on the weekends. I always thought that it varied from person to person, but I know I didn't notice any difference when I used xanax vs when I didn't prior to my habit except the meth made me nod for 2 hours.

Paregoric Kid
22-06-2005, 14:37
not to bump the thread again but here is something interesting and relevant:
Effects of grapefruit juice on the pharmacokinetics of the enantiomers of methadone.

Benmebarek M, Devaud C, Gex-Fabry M, Powell Golay K, Brogli C, Baumann P, Gravier B, Eap CB.

Service of Medicine and Penitentiary Psychiatry, University Department of Adult Psychiatry, Lausanne, Switzerland.

BACKGROUND AND OBJECTIVES: Cytochrome P450 (CYP) 3A4 is the main CYP isozyme involved in methadone metabolism. We investigated the influence of grapefruit juice, which contains inhibitors of intestinal CYP3A, on the steady-state pharmacokinetics of methadone. METHODS: For 5 days, 8 patients undergoing methadone maintenance treatment received 200 mL water or grapefruit juice 30 minutes before and again together with their daily dose of methadone. Blood sampling for R-, S-, and R,S-methadone plasma determination was performed over a 24-hour period. CYP3A activity was determined by measuring the plasma 1'-hydroxymidazolam/midazolam ratio. RESULTS: A decrease in the midazolam ratio was measured in all patients after grapefruit juice (mean +/- SD before grapefruit juice, 9.3 +/- 5.9; mean +/- SD after grapefruit juice, 3.9 +/- 1.2; P <.05). Grapefruit juice led to a mean 17% increase in the area under the curve extrapolated to 24 hours for both enantiomers of methadone (range, 3% to 29% [P <.005]; range, -4% to 37% [P <.05]; and range, 1% to 32% [P <.01]; for R-, S-, and R,S-methadone, respectively). A similar increase in peak level and decrease in apparent clearance were measured with grapefruit juice, whereas time to peak level, terminal half-life, and apparent volume during the terminal phase of R-, S-, and R,S-methadone were not affected by grapefruit juice. No symptom of overmedication was either detected by the clinical staff or reported by the patients. CONCLUSIONS: Grapefruit juice administration is associated with a modest increase in methadone bioavailability, which is not expected to endanger patients. However, it cannot be excluded that a much stronger effect may occur in some patients, and thus grapefruit juice intake is not recommended during methadone maintenance treatment, in particular in patients initiating such a treatment.

RoboticOpiateMaster
22-06-2005, 16:42
Originally posted by paradoxcycle
Originally posted by RoboticOpiateMaster
No, it's tang.

tastes like sunny delight.

Tang IS sugar and food coloring.

And Dr.Pepper is syrup and carbonated water, but wouldn't you ask for it by name rather then its contents?

johnnyb420
22-06-2005, 17:51
hydroxyzine seems to potentiate methadone for me also known as vistril, atarax i take 100mg per day with my methadone

xxanxx
22-06-2005, 19:32
I have never noticed grapefruit juice to potnentiate any opiate. It sure doesn't seem to take away from the high, but definitely doesn't increase effect or duration. I consume a fairly large amount of vitamin c/fruit juices and use methadone frequently(prescribed for pain), and have never noticed any effect either way....
Obviously, it varies from person to person. Interesting post paregoric, thanks...

fastandbulbous
22-06-2005, 23:41
The flavanoid naranjin that is present in grapefruit juice is an inhibitor of cytochrome 3A4, which according to the info posted by Paregoric Kid, is responsible for the metabolism of methadone to nor-methadone.

Against this is the fact that grapefruit juice (or any citrus fruit juice) contains relatively high levels of organic acids (it's not just vit C involved. In fact, that's a minor consideration as it's mostly present as the unionized form), such as citric and tartaric acid (and a few others). These encourage the equilibrium between methadone in its ionized and unionized form towards the ionized form (eg methadone citrate), and in the ionized state, the body excretes more of the methadone into the urine. You can increase the half life of methadone by the use of alkalinizing agents like sodium bicarbonate.

The equilibrium mentioned above is the principal behind forced acid diuresis, to clear the blood of a drug in cases of overdose.

As for which is of the greater importance in methadone's half life, cyp 3A4 vs increased acidic diuresis, you'd need a textbook on pharmacokinetics and a calculator to wrk out!

iloveoxycontin
29-06-2005, 20:54
after a little searching on the web for different drugs that might potentiate opiates, methadone specifically, i found this on good ol' erowid....

"However, many people are unaware that both enhanced effectiveness of narcotic analgesics AND prevention or reversal of tolerance is readily achievable through the oral use of up to 200-250 mg of Proglumide [(DL)-4-Benzamido-N,N-dipropylglutaramic acid]. [See Ott 1999; Watkins et al. 1984]"

from http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/opiates/opiates_info3.shtml

I'd never heard of this Proglumide before, but this definitely sparks my interest. Let me know if any of you have any info on this, and please, dont post facts unless you have references. :)