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ForTheRush
12-06-2004, 05:37
It seems that after a weekend of meth my muscles deteriorate so rapidly its almost scary. I have been on creatine for about 2 weeks and have gotten some really incredible gains but after last tweakend it seemed i had lost all I had worked for. Could this be just water loss or strain cause they also feel incredibly weak to the point where my forearms burn just from typing this. Id like answers not theory cause its eating me away physically and mentaly.

5alphareductase
12-06-2004, 05:42
Meth itself raises cortisol over the roof, and all of the things associated with meth like not eating or sleeping just add to it. To gain any good muscle you have to stop the meth, or keep it to once a month at the most.

Oceanbear
12-06-2004, 18:57
^^^^^^^^^^^

Not to mention the damage being done to your dopamine receptors. Studies have shown that meth use permanently effects the ability of the user to feel pleasure as well as decreased cognitive function and motor skills. Some of these abilties can come back if meth is discontinued as the brain repairs itself. But not always. These studies, unlike the flawed ones involving MDMA, are well documented. And remember that even the MDMA studies that reported Ecstacy to leave you brain looking like Swiss chess were actully conducted with methamphetamine.

ForTheRush
13-06-2004, 14:50
any other drugs known to interfere with building muscles?
damn i hate hearing this now and wondering why its suddenly become alot harder to engage in such tasks as spelling words correctly or playing dance dance revolution, fuck shit fuck and being an avid user of everything from crack to smack to 2c-e, what other nasty effects can i expect somebody scare me straight

ledom
13-06-2004, 16:53
Your playing with your bodies chemistry. Just because you might not feel any negative effects physically doesn't mean nothing harmful is happening inside your body that your not aware of.

Ledom

psy-marshal
13-06-2004, 17:34
There's also quite compelling evidence which has led to speculation that frequent and/or high dose meth use can lead to an increased risk of Parkinson's disease later in life. Had I known all this in my young(er) and (more) foolish days, I seriously would have rethought trying it for the first time...

Bad_Boy_Blue
14-06-2004, 16:17
Meth is great for fat cutting. It is an extremely strong beta-2 alpha-adrenergic receptor agonist.

It therefore has the potential to preserve LBM and ramp up lypolysis during times of a high energy defecit.

5alphareductase
14-06-2004, 20:11
I highly doubt meth is a beta 2 agonist.

ForTheRush
15-06-2004, 00:24
someone once told me meth speeds up the bodys breaking down of fat into muscle. He says he stacked it with steroids.

5alphareductase
15-06-2004, 00:43
What a fucking genius. Muscle and fat are formed by totally different cells and can not "turn in to each other." Not saying you are stupid, just him.

Oceanbear
15-06-2004, 04:55
Originally posted by ForTheRush
someone once told me meth speeds up the bodys breaking down of fat into muscle. He says he stacked it with steroids.


Even if this were true I would consider it to be a terrible combo.

You need lots of rest and food if you're tearing your muscles up while on gear. Meth is not conducive to either of these as it's notorious for keeping one awake and producing anorexia.

Sounds like a great stack for psychosis.

AznRaver
15-06-2004, 05:52
Originally posted by ForTheRush
someone once told me meth speeds up the bodys breaking down of fat into muscle. He says he stacked it with steroids.

bodybuilding wise, meth breaks down fat and muscle so you can look like an A&F twig. meth is catabolic, neurotoxic, suppresses appetite, and gets you no sleep. how da hell do you build muscle on meth?

Bad_Boy_Blue
16-06-2004, 14:26
Originally posted by 5alphareductase
I highly doubt meth is a beta 2 agonist.

I know for a fact that both meth and coke are potent bet 2 agonists. Do a google search.

ForTheRush
16-06-2004, 15:18
belive it or not im pretty fuckin ripped i can post a pic if you dont belive me so somethin seems to be happening just not as fast as it could be, also i recently had a shoulder seperation and neglected surgery cause it was 50-50 i don't need it and i do so i went with the 50 percent of doctors saying i didnt need it and im starting to think i made the wrong choice cause its seriously messing my bench to the point where there will be these little puny kids that i know im way stronger than benching what i bench, gets me aggravated.

ForTheRush
16-06-2004, 15:22
and things such as the pec fly and the lat pulldown i cant even attempt. i guesse its good that im up from not even being able to move my arm but i got a ways to go and i dunno if il lever be 100 percent . So many things working against me and my body building hobby i picked up about 2 years ago.

Bad_Boy_Blue
16-06-2004, 15:36
Originally posted by ForTheRush
belive it or not im pretty fuckin ripped i can post a pic if you dont belive me so somethin seems to be happening just not as fast as it could be, also i recently had a shoulder seperation and neglected surgery cause it was 50-50 i don't need it and i do so i went with the 50 percent of doctors saying i didnt need it and im starting to think i made the wrong choice cause its seriously messing my bench to the point where there will be these little puny kids that i know im way stronger than benching what i bench, gets me aggravated.

How old are you, if you don't mind me asking?

gfresh27
16-06-2004, 15:46
I think meth and muscle building is very interesting. I htink the main problems associated with building muscle and meth use is the lifestyle accompanied by the meth use. I would imagine meth would have a similar effect to ephadrine and caffeine if used in low doses. Im sure it would give some kind of strength gains if you used it as a preworkout booster.

Bad_Boy_Blue
16-06-2004, 16:28
From what I gather about methamphetamine, it would only be effective for fatloss.

It would be similar to taking massive doses of ephedrine (although more effective with fewer side-effects). Per 'unit high', it is well known that meth has fewer side effects than ephedrine. This is why ephedrine is so dangerous when abused.

The way to control your use of meth is to use doses so low there is little to no euphoria. Personally, I believe that using GHB in conjunction with meth will reduce the potential for you to give in to any urges to binge on meth.

If anyone wants FACTUAL EVIDENCE for the massive increase in lypolysis resulting from meth use, do a google search; it is well-documented.

I bet you a large proportion of the pros use speed.

AznRaver
16-06-2004, 18:22
this thread should be closed due to stupidity. never, ever think about lifting or working out on meth. pro's don't use meth to get shredded. they use cutting roids, clen, t3, diet, cardio, etc. but never meth. please close this stupid azz thread before someone hurts themselves.

5alphareductase
16-06-2004, 19:27
IF we have threads on other boards about people using adderall or desoxyn to lose weight, then we can have these. The fat loss effects of meth can not be ignored, but the danger is there. When compared to stuff like DNP though, how dangerous is it really, and who are we to say that it is, or is not, to dangerous to use.

AznRaver
16-06-2004, 20:36
Originally posted by 5alphareductase
who are we to say that it is, or is not, to dangerous to use.

if you only knew. But, the question should be who are YOU to say?

if you are actually saying it's ok to use meth for bb purposes, i don't know what kinda mod you are here. it's a great recreational drug for it's intended uses one of which is not for bb purposes. if you are saying it's ok to use for fat loss, then fine. but don't make it sound like you should go lift and do cardio on meth. you should know better than that.

5alphareductase
17-06-2004, 05:49
If you thought that I was recommending everyone use meth to lose weight, then we got our lines crossed. I would never recommend meth to lose weight except in the most extreme circumstances, and even then surgery is probably the better option. Using meth and using bodybuilding as an excuse is just stupid really.

gfresh27
17-06-2004, 16:09
amphetimines might be recreational drugs but they can also be used to enhance performance. The doses used clinically are nowhere near party doses though.

Jimmy the Gun
17-06-2004, 16:14
Studies have shown that meth use permanently effects the ability of the user to feel pleasure as well as decreased cognitive function and motor skills.

thats a correlation, not a cause.

on topic: all i know is meth can make people very, very skinny. so can not eating. funny how it all relates..well not funny..or funny? i'm not sure :)

Bad_Boy_Blue
17-06-2004, 16:26
I'm sorry but the pro's do use speed for cutting fat. There is a difference between the use of this drug as a fat loss aid and the use of it as a recreational drug.

The evidence for it's effect on lypolysis and it's use as a beta-2 adregergic agonist is there.

People use DNP. It's effective. It's also dangerous, yet talking about it isn't shunned in the same way as speed...

AznRaver
17-06-2004, 19:33
Originally posted by 5alphareductase
If you thought that I was recommending everyone use meth to lose weight, then we got our lines crossed. I would never recommend meth to lose weight except in the most extreme circumstances, and even then surgery is probably the better option. Using meth and using bodybuilding as an excuse is just stupid really.

ok, we are on the same wavelength now. meth and bodybuilding is a very stupid and dangerous idea.

AznRaver
17-06-2004, 19:38
Originally posted by Bad_Boy_Blue
I'm sorry but the pro's do use speed for cutting fat. There is a difference between the use of this drug as a fat loss aid and the use of it as a recreational drug.

The evidence for it's effect on lypolysis and it's use as a beta-2 adregergic agonist is there.

People use DNP. It's effective. It's also dangerous, yet talking about it isn't shunned in the same way as speed...

i disagree. no professsional bb'r is using meth for fat loss. there are much better things to use like t3, clen, winny, and even DNP. meth is too catabolic on the muscles for it to be used as a fatloss agent. besides, it's stupid and dangerous to be using meth during your workouts.

gfresh27
19-06-2004, 03:15
Originally posted by AznRaver
besides, it's stupid and dangerous to be using meth during your workouts.

It may be stupid to use meth during your workouts from a muslce building perspective but I don't think it would be anymore dangerous than using an ECA stack or clen if doses were reasonable. In fact I think a comparable dose of meth would be safer with less side effects (jitters, blood ressure rise etc).

5alphareductase
19-06-2004, 05:26
Maybe, but you also have the addictiveness factor that the others dont have.

ryubrir
21-06-2004, 00:49
5-alpha reductase.. i love that nick!! that is basically our mortal enemy in steroids use....

then my nickname should have been "anti aromatase inhibitor"

Bad_Boy_Blue
21-06-2004, 15:31
Originally posted by 5alphareductase
Maybe, but you also have the addictiveness factor that the others dont have.

I respectfully disagree about this addiction factor being a problem. Firstly, I don't think meth has the quite as much potential to cause addiction as many people believe. Secondly, if used in doses so low that there is little to no euphoria, there wont be much risk of the user becoming hooked.

Check out this article:

http://www.disinfo.com/archive/pages/dossier/id1950/pg2/


In sub-recreational doses, meth is anti-catabolic for the very same reasons an ECA stack would be.

Bad_Boy_Blue
21-06-2004, 15:32
Originally posted by gfresh27
In fact I think a comparable dose of meth would be safer with less side effects (jitters, blood ressure rise etc).

I agree. In fact, this is a fact!

AznRaver
22-06-2004, 00:05
oh boy, you guys are so smart. lemme just do a modest bump of crystal before i go lift and do cardio tonite. better yet, how bout some yayo instead? stack it, you think?

jesus christ people.

Oceanbear
22-06-2004, 01:58
Originally posted by Jimmy the Gun

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Oceanbear
Studies have shown that meth use permanently effects the ability of the user to feel pleasure as well as decreased cognitive function and motor skills.

thats a correlation, not a cause.


Parse it any way you like, the fact remains that used over a period of time, methamphetamine use will give you brain damage.

Bad_Boy_Blue
22-06-2004, 10:55
Consider the doses used and the relative damage they will cause. I am sure if ephedrine were abused in the same way meth is used recreationally, brain damage would be the same if not greater.

There's a big difference between using small amounts of meth for losing body fat and using it to get high.

Alcohol in large amounts causes brain damage. This doesn't mean that drinking a couple of beers will turn you into a retard! It's all relative.

Bad_Boy_Blue
22-06-2004, 10:56
Originally posted by AznRaver
oh boy, you guys are so smart. lemme just do a modest bump of crystal before i go lift and do cardio tonite. better yet, how bout some yayo instead? stack it, you think?

jesus christ people.

Yeah, that was really constructive 8(

AznRaver
22-06-2004, 22:33
Originally posted by Bad_Boy_Blue
Yeah, that was really constructive 8(

it wasn't meant to be constructive, but stupid like you.

5alphareductase
23-06-2004, 00:32
Lets keep on topic here, and not go with the insults. This is turning in to a pretty interesting topic and I would like to see it go on with good discussion.

Shnouzerpuff
23-06-2004, 12:20
I have found that if I keep usage down to something like once a fortnight or month, while keeping up with gym work, 6 meals a day and protein supplementation I do not appear to lose weight.

Of course after a big weekend I feel shirivelled and kilo's are gone, but it appears to just be lost water from dehydration because it all comes back.

gfresh27
23-06-2004, 13:50
I'll say it again, the main reason speed is bad for muscle building is the lifestyle that goes with it. When you go out for a "big night" you go out, don't eat for several hrs and dance without proper hydration. Take the speed out of the equation and your still in a majorly catabolic state.

Bad_Boy_Blue
23-06-2004, 14:03
As gfresh27 says, I don't think you'll get very good results at all using it recreationally. Using most drugs recreationally isn't beneficial to your bodybuilding goals (with perhaps one or two exceptions).

Bad_Boy_Blue
23-06-2004, 14:12
Originally posted by 5alphareductase
Meth itself raises cortisol over the roof, and all of the things associated with meth like not eating or sleeping just add to it. To gain any good muscle you have to stop the meth, or keep it to once a month at the most.

Surprisingly, having controlled amounts of cortisol is actually very beneficial to fat loss. Yes it is catabolic, but that is something we have to deal with when trying to lose bodyfat. The main goal in a fat cutting cycle is the maintenance of muscle while losing bodyfat, rather than actually trying to gain muscle at the same time (which is physiologically possible, but not practical).

Taken from one of Big Cat's articles:

'Cortisol is that one hormone we all love to hate, because its one of the most important inducers of proteolysis, resulting in muscle loss. Like most hormones we want some of it, but too much becomes detrimental. When we diet especially, cortisol levels tend to rise drastically. This is not entirely negative though, cortisol is probably the most powerful lipolytic drug there is.

With a few downsides of course. Whereas it reduces fat in most areas, it increases visceral fat mass (beer belly like). This is an evolutionary safe-guard. Visceral fat can be easily mobilized, so relocating fat there may be to our advantage in surviving long spells of caloric restriction.

This is generally not a problem on a diet, visceral fat mass is reduced pretty much as fast as cortisol can relocate the fat there, especially as your diet progresses. The main negative is that if you fall off the wagon, and start binging, chances are you will gain fat in your gut first. The other major downside of course is the muscle loss.

Cortisol is the one hormone everyone would like to be able to control selectively. Turning it off in muscle and visceral fat, and turning it up in subcutaneous fat. This is why most steroid users will opt for an androgen with anti-cortisol properties to aid in retention of muscle mass.

Testosterone and trenbolone are the two most potent drugs in this regard, and they are highly synergistic in this regard as well. Testosterone blocks the cortisol receptor, whereas trenbolone may reduce receptor number and may reduce size of the adrenal gland long term.

Usually in a diet we try to make use of cortisol without letting it get out of hand.'


Sleep is perhaps one of the most important (and neglected) areas of bodybuilding, due to endogenous GH production. The majority of your daily GH output is actually produced during sleep (approx 75% in many people). To get around this, meth should be used in the morning and in low doses (like with a simple ECA stack). Hypnotics can occasionally be useful (I personally prefer GHB). Although I wouldn't recommend relying on them regularly.

Meth is an extremely powerful anorectic. However, I don't believe that in low, controlled doses, this will prevent you from eating enough to preserve muscle mass. In the transition from bulking to cutting e.g. eating 4500kcal/day to 2000kcal/day, you'll usually be hungry anyway, so having a reduced appetite will be helpful.

Bad_Boy_Blue
23-06-2004, 14:29
Although I cannot cite any references at the moment, I believe that using piracetam in conjunction with methamphetamine (not amphetamine) prevents most if not all neurotoxicity when doses are kept low.

AznRaver
24-06-2004, 19:19
Originally posted by Bad_Boy_Blue

Taken from one of Big Cat's articles:



O/T: Don't even bring Big Cunt over here to BL. The guy is a major azz and thinks he's right about everything. he's a mod from hell too. besides, those guys at the bb boards are totally against recreational drugs and will fight you to the end on that topic, but will fight to protect juice and ph's. what a bunch of hypocrites! So, keep BC and his goons outta BL or i will regulate.

Bad_Boy_Blue
24-06-2004, 19:24
LOL. I happen to agree with some of what you just said!

tara43
24-06-2004, 19:52
This is for the guy with the shoulder separation.. Go have the fucking surgery and take the time off to heal! You will come back stronger than ever..but trying to train while you ignore what your body is telling you.. is a waste of your time and energy.. I know its a tough decision..facing time off like that. I just did it, and came back..so I say..get off the fence!

runner_man
24-06-2004, 19:57
Meth is extremely addictive and personally destructive.

And combining it with GHB as was suggested earlier? That is supposed to reduce the risk somehow? Mask the sides maybe, but GHB itself is extremely addictive.

I have to disagree with the idea that "we must never judge or advise others not to use certain drugs".

If your friend says to you "boy meth really makes me jittery and messes up my sleep cycles and eating habits and also makes me want to pick my skin until i look like a pincushion" would you then advise him/her to offset the effects with heroin? Of course it would cut down on the side effects but it would also introduce much larger issues to the situation. Would you not be a better friend if you advised them to cut down or eliminate a habit that was affecting them so negatively? And in fact, wouldn't it just be a good idea to discourage meth use?

I personally don't know anyone who has had a long term habit, be it GHB, meth, heroin, or crack that would advise their friends to take up the habit, quite the opposite. The only people who will advocate it are those whose habits have not progressed far enough to really damage their lives...yet.

AznRaver
24-06-2004, 20:26
Originally posted by runner_man


I personally don't know anyone who has had a long term habit, be it GHB, meth, heroin, or crack that would advise their friends to take up the habit, quite the opposite. The only people who will advocate it are those whose habits have not progressed far enough to really damage their lives...yet.

are you saying you are against the use of recreational drugs for everyone?

runner_man
24-06-2004, 21:10
Nope. I'm saying that those drugs have an extremely high potential for addiction, and that its probably not wise to ignore the obvious social damage they do. I don't know how prevalent meth is where you are, but here in SoCal, its an epidemic.

I fought a coke addiction for six years, but before that I would have spoken differently about it - its a lot of fun when you first start, just like any drug, but that perspective changes over time.

Weed, alcohol in moderation, the occasional psychedelic are all things I enjoy regularly. I just think its important to recognize the danger level of certain drugs when discussing them.

AznRaver
24-06-2004, 21:22
I always hear alotta "I's" when i hear people raging on recreational drugs. why do people like to give advice from the "I"?

then, you have people like you selectively choosing which drugs are ok or not for society. please don't. let the individual adult decide for themselves. some drugs may not be right for you, but that doesn't mean it's not right for another. And don't bag meth unless you are using it for bb purposes. it's fine when used responsibly.

Anyhow, we are all here to help each other use drugs safely, effectively, and responsibly because we believe that all drugs should be legal for adults. don't you?

don't be a bb.com idiot, please. i've had enough of those hypocritical knuckleheads. "juice is fine, but coke is bad! coke will make you rob and kill people." f'n idiots!