I am sooo tired of seeing 12 year old screwed up out of their minds...

The last party I went to was the biggest party I have been to. The reason being was that there were so many young girls there. Some looked like they couldn't even have been 12 or 13.
I am so tired of seeing all these little girls fucked up on e saying "I am going to throw up" or " I am sooo fucked up"
I know this topic has been discussed many times, but it really makes me not want to go back when I see that kind of shit happening.
I think there should be an age limit on who goes. I mean no one under 17 should be able to attend. Those girls can be so easily taken advantage of, and it makes me sick to my stomach.

I still say 17 and 18 is too young. I say they should have 19+ and I will always stand by this!

I feel the same way. There needs to be a certain level of maturity in order to responsibly use most drugs. Yes lot of people who are well over that age cant use with responsiblity. However I would say that the vast majority of kids under 18 have way to much developing left to do to be partying that hard.
But I did it when I was that age and Im not stoping anyone from doing thier thing. Just my opinion/advice.

oh my god! can I get an Ahmen! That is EXACTLY how I feel. It is really hurting the scene.

i've been meaning to post on this forever!
if anything is going to kill this scene, it's going to be when the media hears about the first 12 or 13 year old kid who od's at a party...or whatever
i can see the 20/20 interview now with the poor kid's parents
i find it funny that you have to be 21 plus to get into club to drink...19 plus just to dance
but only 16!! and 12 and 13yr olds having no problem sneaking in most of the time...
to go and dance all NIGHT with 2000 strangers (some of whom are real sketchy), lax security, and more drugs than you could ever want and sometimes more than you can handle...
look, i'm 22 years old, i do drugs...i rave, i go nuts on the weekends, maybe a little overboard sometimes
bottom line...i have a full time job (55 hours a week) i pay my rent...i pay my bills... i'm generally a responsible person who can make an ADULT decision to make drugs a part of my life...and i think only experience gives a person that ability
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soulfly
"Knowledge starts with K for a reason"- Dr. John Lilly
*"Hey Train!!! K=Good!"*
**Kamel Red Light Krew**

I have seen a fourteen year old who would eat one pill an evening, space rolls/parties between three weeks, raid the net and libraries for info on what they're putting into their bodies, 411 on the effects, seriously and maturely considering the consequences...
I have seen a twenty year old write a bad check for a top-of-the-line VCR and return it the next day to buy a tenpack, eat half the pills in one night, and sit on the couch for six hours just in a smacked out daze that was interrupted only by occasional happymumbles or vomitting.
I hear what you all are saying. Those 12 year olds strung out on too many drugs scare the hell out of me, maybe because I see something of a younger version of myself in them, maybe just because it's hard to watch ANYone act so destructively to themselves before their life has even begun, and soil the name of raving and responsible recreational drug use. But even so, not ALL young users are stupid users, and not every +18 year old user is smart about his or her indulgences.
I guess my point is just be careful with your stereotyping and your generalization.
~*~ Ashke ~*~
[This message has been edited by Ashke (edited 09 February 2000).]

Aske.... I totally agree with what you said about not generalizing, because there are some 12 year olds who can handle themselves. And there are some 18+ who can't handle themselves. But it is just my opinion that they shouldn't be allowed into the scene so early.
To everyone....It really makes me sad to see this happening. I get messed up with the best of them, but I know I can handle myself at a rave. People (of any age) who are just doing e to be cool or to "experience" a rave shouldn't be there. To me they almost make the rave scene feel dirty.
If the media gets a hold of how many young people are doing drugs at raves, never mind the older people that do rave, I can see them coming to a stop. There already is enough bad press about raves that we don't need anything else.
If you have to be 18+ to go to a bar, you shouldn't be able to rave until you are legal.
Just my two cents...

ashke, hun
i'm sorry if i sounded like i was stereotyping...because i really wasn't
you're exactly right...i saw some guy about 23 years old CRAWLING across the floor a couple weeks ago...it still made me sick
but what i'm saying is that the age of 12-16 is when people are the most impressionable...and when the habits they set for themselves TEND to dictate the rest of their lives (i know i'm a definite victim of that)
of course there are exceptions...but this brings us back to the eternal question
"would you want your kids raving at 12-16 years old??"
i just don't understand the age restrictions this country sets... "Hi! i'm 16 years old!
i can't go see an R Rated movie, but hell i'll go to a rave...hook up with some random guy...blow lines of K up my nose and drop a ton of pills!"
much love to you all
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soulfly
"Knowledge starts with K for a reason"- Dr. John Lilly
*"Hey Train!!! K=Good!"*
**Kamel Red Light Krew**

I don't think the issue is being educated about it anymore, the issue has become that the young kids (young teenagers even) are just way to young to be playing with a mind they have yet to fuly develop. Puberty is really not meant to be tampered with since it not only changes you physically but it also molds you mentally. If the kids wanna use the drugs, let them smoke buds for a couple of years and try some shrooms, but shit, lets face it, if they start eating rolls every weekend all the money they make from their paperroute is going straigh to the drugs they plan on using on the weekend.
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Many people will walk in and out of your life, but only true friends will leave footprints in your heart.
Beautiful young people are accidents of nature, but beautiful old people are works of art.
Yesterday is history, tomorrow is mystery, today is a gift!!
With all his heart,
The Doc

That's my EVEY!!! *hugs*
At any rate, Evey, you well know how I feel. =)
It's great that there are some of these kids who are going out, and doing the research. I totaly agree. Wonderful. But, at the same time, (in canada) anyone younger than 18 is STILL the responcibility of thier parents. I personaly feel that some people are prepared for thse things at a younger age. Hell, I have been clubbing since I was 16. BUT, the vast majority of 16 year olds (or younger), are still passsing notes in math class! (if you catch my meaning here) I hardly think that most of them are at all prepared to enter this world. Not only that, but I am getting REALY sick of seeing them there. As in REALY sick.
Evey, I didn't notice the population of "12 year olds" there... then again, I was distracted... tee hee. However, it's been like that for a while. You hear me bitch about it every time, and it is only getting worse. At that party, I saw a kid who could not have been more than nine years old.
Evey and I were in a 2.5 hour long line to get into this party... 700 ticket holders were turned away. They were the ones who come later (hell, I usualy am) the ones who do it as it "should" be done. The REAL ravers. All of the kiddies, who got their parents to drive them got there so early, they were first in line. So this venue was packed just full of teeny boppers, and the ravers got stuck out in the cold.
Sure, maybe I am one of those old skoolers pining for the old days, and then again, maybe I'm just a sencible person, looking out for the well being of some kids, and the preservation of our scene. Does it realy matter? Bottom line here is, I am with Evey, it makes me want to vomit. KIDS should NOT be raving. Regardless of the fact that there are a few of them out there who can handle it.
This is a HUGE life altering thing. It has changed ME drasticly. Children should not be allowed to make this decision for themselves.
If I see one more child fucked out of thier mind on 4 pills, or CRANKED off thier asses, or randomly HUG me, or proclaim "I'm soooo fucked", or BARF, etc etc etc, I think I am going to totaly freak out...
oh... one more little note here... the Haloween before last.... There were TWO parties going off in this city. All of which were somewhat "underground" and certianly not legal. The parents of a 14 year old girl had all of the information about the party... like... WHERE it was going off, because thier daughter was a good girl, and told her parents where she would be. Her parents did not agree with thier 14 yer old staying out all night... and rightfully so. So they forbid her to go. She goes anyway. The pollice are called. The first party, the one she was headed to, BUSTED 10PM, it had barely even begun, I was just arriving. Thank you concerned parents. The other party party, not TOO far away, BUSTED 10:30, tipped off by some loud mouthed ravers discussing what they were going to do now. An entire city's Haloween party fun, ruined by a 14 year old girl. True story. I STILL have my $20 ticket to "the witching hour"
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Who you are never realy changes... It's who you THINK you are that does.

Paradox, you are so fucking true to every word you speak!!!!
My only thing I don't like about what you said was the random hugs, cause when I roll I give out so many hugs (of course I ask if they need a hug first) but i really like giving out hugs and making everybody feel happy.
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Many people will walk in and out of your life, but only true friends will leave footprints in your heart.
Beautiful young people are accidents of nature, but beautiful old people are works of art.
Yesterday is history, tomorrow is mystery, today is a gift!!
With all his heart,
The Doc

sonofabitch, paradox, i'd be pissed too
same thing here, kids get dropped off at 8-9pm by their parents, they have nothing better to do, no non-kid houses to pre-party at, so they go straight to the rave. All us older crowd, we have dinner, collect our people, pre-party, caravan or carpool, and get there at a respectable 11pm-1am and have to wait out in the cold.
it's really for their own good. i didn't touch any intoxicant til i was 20 and i'm so happy i did it that way. I can't even imagine the cumulative long-term damage that this hard-core use is going to result in by 5 year's time.
when i go to mcdonald's to pick up a royale with cheese, it's going to be serviced with a drooling zombie ex-wannabe kiddie raver who spent their developing puberty years introducing massive amounts of untested designer chemicals into their fragile systems. what am i going to do, laugh it off, haha, your problem, buddy, gimme a side of mayonaisse sauce?
it's going to be considered a national epidemic. school principals, local politicians, outraged connected parents, and trend-riding representatives are going to put their heads together to fight this unholy menace without fully understanding the situation. And it's only going to make it worse for everyone.
Do your part. Complain to promoters, publicly bash them on how they are catering to a vulnerable generation and how this prostitution should end. Boycott events where kids show up. Or better yet, go there and take kid's drugs, if that goes along with your conscience .
Try to understand the vaccuum that suburban kids live in nowadays, and how raving fills that vaccuum. They want the space, they need the space to come together and play. But they don't need the drugs, they don't need the dark vibes. No kid needs psychedelics, that's fuckin' silly. They need a real place to play, not a stupid mcdonald's playground while their parents are ordering royales with cheese!
If we could build places for kids to go that are fun, only the experimental will try to piggyback the rave culture. Alas, suburban western culture only allows a minimum of spaces to exist: school, home, place of commerce, and place of deity worship. It's time we expand the choices available before every city across the nation experiences it's own Columbine tragedy firsthand.
one pissed off american

Hello everyone. I've been reading this board for a good couple of weeks now. This subject really caught my attention.
(Ok... super long post, I'm sorry!)
I agree with you all... I find it very sad to know there's people out there abusing such a fantastic drug and being too young to realize what it can really do FOR you, not TO you. Although, like some of you are saying, age has nothing to do with it - it has to do with your mentality. Those as young as 12 in no WAY have the maturity to take any drug, IMO. Chances are, if they're in the situation to take drugs, they will probably be introduced to situations that they probably can't handle. Almost -everyone- in the younger teens thinks they know everything. Hell, I did.. and I know many of you would agree with me. I don't think anyone should even consider taking drugs at -least- until they realize this: We don't know everything, no matter how old we are.
This topic also saddens me because recently, my little cousin (who is the oldest besides myself) has started going to raves and taking drugs. She took E before -i- did, and she was barely 15. I talked to her about it, and she didn't seem to have a clue. She just said she was so skrewed up and it was somewhat scary. "Are you going to do it again?" I asked her... "Yep." All I could tell her is to please be careful.. there's not much you can tell a 15 year old girl that will make her listen. I know, I was once that 15 year old girl too.
I'm sorry if a lot of this sounds like generalizations... but keep in mind, I don't mean -everyone-, just a lot.
I also would like to share something with you all that I've lived by during my 'teen' years.
I started getting social and partying (not raves) when I was 14. I toyed with drinking and the like, but never went near drugs. At about 16, my life became a mess and drugs were being offered to me left and right. I bought a couple hits of acid (which never worked, fake stuff) and smoked a joint, which sent me into a panic attack and I've never touched the stuff since. Anyway, I'll get to the point.
At that time, I sat down and realized how much of a mess I was, and it was probably in my best interest to stay away from drugs or anything else that could bring me further down. I then made a pact to myself that I would not go near drugs until I felt that I was emotionally capable. That nothing was wrong with my life (to a certain extent, we all have problems) and that I was generally happy. Only then, I would try drugs - not to get away from life, but to experience a new part of life.
So, I didn't end up putting another drug into my body until I was 19. My life was going really nicely - I had gotten out of a bad long-term relationship and hooked up with a wonderful new boyfriend, I had finally gotten up off my ass and got a job, I had many positive friends who cared about me, and I didn't feel any tension in my household with my family. These were the very things I was thinking about before I was about to accept my first E pill. I had already been thinking about it, as I was doing quite a bit of research on the drug previous to that night.
I'm very glad I waited until I did, because I found E to be such a positive experience in a way where I could reflect on that night for what it was, and not sit around only thinking of the next time I was going to do it. I've dropped E a few times since then, and I am able to cherish every memory that I have while on it, knowing that new ones will come my way on and off the drug.
Maybe this isn't the best way to go about things for everyone, but I'm sure it could work for some people. I wish those in their pre-teens would, or could understand that drugs can be beautiful - when you know what you're doing, and you can truly appreciate what's going on.
It's like, when you were 8 years old, and you went camping with your parents... you're far away from the city. You're sitting a fire, looking up at the sky. It's not until later in life that camping has taken on a whole new light. The crackling of the fire becomes musical, the heat feels so nice on your body and the dancing of the flames tickles your eyes, causing you to sigh in utter amazement. The moon lights your surroundings ever so dimly, giving everything a soft, shimmering glow. The stars are so clear and you can lose yourself in the sky in a matter of seconds.
Do you see where I'm getting, here?
Anyhow, I suppose I'll shut the hell up. For anyone who took time to read this - thanks. Whether you agree or disagree, those are my feelings that i've been wanting to get out for a while, now. Sya!

Excellent post vixelyn, and you too Liquid, you always have something good to say.
I hate to say it, but I think I should become a drug dealer cause the way this scene is growing out of hand I would make a killing eeling rolls to stupid 13 and 14 year olds. I actually would never sell drugs cause thats not me, but I still think that this is the tip of the iceburg and things are about to explode. This drug is going to fuck up many peoples lives cause they dont know how to use it effectively and in moderation.
And the truth of the matter is the fact that the best fun in this scene isn't had until you are like 19 or 20 and upwards in age. the younger you are the bigger a waste it is cause you are just not socially adept to handle the problems which may arise or know how to handle yourself properly.
High schools are citing this drug is being their biggest problem right now with stupid cracked out 14 and 15 and 16 and . . . year olds coming in after a rave on the weekend and completely skitzed out of their mind. I hate this shit cause it is giving all of us (the smart people) a terrible reputation since we use the drug!!
I can bet by summer when it heats up and the kids dont have school this scene is just going to explode beyond proportion cause everybody is going to going to raves and staying out all night abusing their bodies.
God, this is getting out of hand!!
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Many people will walk in and out of your life, but only true friends will leave footprints in your heart.
Beautiful young people are accidents of nature, but beautiful old people are works of art.
Yesterday is history, tomorrow is mystery, today is a gift!!
With all his heart,
The Doc

Excellent post vixelyn, and you too Liquid, you always have something good to say.
I hate to say it, but I think I should become a drug dealer cause the way this scene is growing out of hand I would make a killing eeling rolls to stupid 13 and 14 year olds. I actually would never sell drugs cause thats not me, but I still think that this is the tip of the iceburg and things are about to explode. This drug is going to fuck up many peoples lives cause they dont know how to use it effectively and in moderation.
And the truth of the matter is the fact that the best fun in this scene isn't had until you are like 19 or 20 and upwards in age. the younger you are the bigger a waste it is cause you are just not socially adept to handle the problems which may arise or know how to handle yourself properly.
High schools are citing this drug is being their biggest problem right now with stupid cracked out 14 and 15 and 16 and . . . year olds coming in after a rave on the weekend and completely skitzed out of their mind. I hate this shit cause it is giving all of us (the smart people) a terrible reputation since we use the drug!!
I can bet by summer when it heats up and the kids dont have school this scene is just going to explode beyond proportion cause everybody is going to going to raves and staying out all night abusing their bodies.
God, this is getting out of hand!!
------------------
Many people will walk in and out of your life, but only true friends will leave footprints in your heart.
Beautiful young people are accidents of nature, but beautiful old people are works of art.
Yesterday is history, tomorrow is mystery, today is a gift!!
With all his heart,
The Doc

What ever happened to peace love unity and respect? I also agree with 12 and 13 yr. olds not going out and raving but the fact of the matter is that all drugs are ILLEGAL for everyone. The fact is that we aren't seeing many 12 and 13 yr. olds on the news od'ing from drugs. I'm seeing more adults then adolscents! I'm 17 and I am a very responsible and mature person. I also have a job and pay for everything that i need to. I do live under my parents roof but does that make me any more less responsible and mature? The big majority of music is bought by us TEENAGERS and isn't that part of the rave culture? The love of music, the good vibes? How many of you started to do drugs at 19? Very few I bet. I give props to these kids who are making wise decisions and being responsible and in the meantime are raving. I never even heard of rave until last year. I wished i could have been 13 and a raving lunatic! But for the ones who don't know their limit, then only time will tell. They have to make decisions and stick with them and learn in the meantime. By the time they are my age, they will more then likely know 100% more then i know about drugs, rave etc.
Everyone including adults and teens have the right to do whatever the music tells them too.....
PLUR!!!!!!!
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tEXass

What ever happened to peace love unity and respect? I also agree with 12 and 13 yr. olds not going out and raving but the fact of the matter is that all drugs are ILLEGAL for everyone. The fact is that we aren't seeing many 12 and 13 yr. olds on the news od'ing from drugs. I'm seeing more adults then adolscents! I'm 17 and I am a very responsible and mature person. I also have a job and pay for everything that i need to. I do live under my parents roof but does that make me any more less responsible and mature? The big majority of music is bought by us TEENAGERS and isn't that part of the rave culture? The love of music, the good vibes? How many of you started to do drugs at 19? Very few I bet. I give props to these kids who are making wise decisions and being responsible and in the meantime are raving. I never even heard of rave until last year. I wished i could have been 13 and a raving lunatic! But for the ones who don't know their limit, then only time will tell. They have to make decisions and stick with them and learn in the meantime. By the time they are my age, they will more then likely know 100% more then i know about drugs, rave etc.
Everyone including adults and teens have the right to do whatever the music tells them too.....
PLUR!!!!!!!
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tEXass

I know Im probably about to offend some younger bluelighters but thats not my intention. No 13-16 year olds are mature. At times they may act very mature. They may make very reasponsible choices but do not mistake this for maturity. But this is ok. You arent supposed to be mature yet.
Using drugs at any age is surely not good for you. But just think about all the physical, emotional and social development that you go thouh at that age. I dropped my first bean at 19. It was great I loved it. I went 4 years with out dropping and at 23 the experience meant so much more to me. Why? I truely believe that it is because I understand my self so much better because I understand all the feelings that in brings out in me. No matter what any young teens believe they cant truely understand what they are feeling. I know that Ill probably get tons of replies from young teens telling me they understand their feelings that they are mature and that they know what they are doing. All I can say is call me in a couple of years. I bet that you see where Im coming from then.
Anyway thats my opinion. Im not telling anyone what to do or not to do. I hope I didnt come off to un-plur. Thats was not my intent. I just worry about youth today. Kids are going up way to fast and it scares me.

I totally agree with soulfly.
DOn't get me wrong, I would love to see some little twelve year old out ther dancing his ass off al night long..I mean how cute..a mini raver, But That USUAlly isn't the case. I see the young kids in the bath room snorting K....I am just saying at that age i would have no idea what i could be getting my self into. I am 22 and can make responsible descisions for myself. At 12-13 I could not and i don't think many others could.
I choose to roll. I know the consequences if caught. I have accepted that. At 13 you think you are unstoppable..nothing really matters.....see my point. you are a kid!
I just don't want to see young kids going in the wrong direction. (and don't anybody say "what are you saying..raving is the wrong direction" cause thats not what I mean.

I've talked about this before so I don't think that everyone wants to hear my experience with 12 yr olds that are fucked out of their mind...but I have something to say about the dealers. I think whoever sells to a 12 year old has to take a look around and realize the damage that that is doing. Nobody that I know would even consider selling or giving to a 12 year old. I'd like to know who actually does this.