ECSTASY

Here's a sad story for you that are using ECSTASY!! A wonderful 17 year old boy, neighbor of mine, and good friends of my children died this weekend do to the use of ECSTASY. Him and his parents lived just a few apartment buildings away from me. Saturday night he was just up stairs from his parents apartment having a good ole time party. When he went into convulsions. The kids he was parting with thought that this was funny to watch. 45 minutes went by before someone realized that this wasn't funny anymore, they final called 911. Well at 8:00 am he died. Some say that this was his 1st time using and some say it wasn't. But regardless if this was his 1st or hundredth time. It will kill you!!! This boy had a promising future, as all of you do. His parents they get to live with the grief of knowing that their child died getting high just a few steps away. If someone there would of thought of getting help sooner Steve would still be with us today. So stop and think before using, today you maybe lucky tomorrow you may not.
Motherof2
[This message has been edited by Motherof2 (edited 08 May 2000).]

That is truly sad to hear, the loss of youth and promise is a tragedy no matter where or by what means it occurs. I empathize with anyone who is put through the pain of losing a close friend or loved one.
However, what you've posted is a classic example of a scare tactic at work. To begin with I find it highly doubtful that the symptoms you reported were the result of the usage of a responsible (or reasonable) dosage of MDMA. In point of fact, I have serious doubts that this would be the result of *any* quantity of genuine MDMA. It is a definite possibility that he was either taking other drugs on top of the X or that what he thought was X wasn't. To my mind that bespeaks a need for education of the youth.
The real problem in this story is the reactions of the people around him. If you are looking for somewhere to lay blame then i believe the appropriate doormat would be the people who found his convulsions amusing. We need to take care of each other people, and whatever this kid was on (and it sure as hell wasn't just MDMA) we need to be aware and informed about what we are putting in our bodies. Educate yourselves and those around you. Its all about risk management.
Fuzzy
[This message has been edited by Fuzzzone (edited 08 May 2000).]

I also agree that the people that found this amusing should be held responsible for some of this tragedy. If other drugs were involved is unknown at this time. You say you find this hard to believe that was the only drug being used, and using a reasonable amount that this wouldn't have happened. What is a reasonable amount? How would you classify a reasonable amount for each individual? Any drugs taken is a risk taken on your life.

A fatal reaction to Ecstasy can occur and sometimes people forget about this...
MotherOf2: If you could provide any information from the coroners report this would be very helpful.
To often we are left with a scare story and no information what we can pass on to others, leaving doubts in peoples minds that the story is genuine.
Thanks
Jase.

When I have more information, I will provide this. This young man just passed away Sunday 5/7 at 8:00 am.

In response to your question Motherof2, i would consider a reasonable/responsible dosage of MDMA to be between 80 and 120 mg (though Dr. Shulgin gives a range of 80-150). Perhaps i should have qualified my statement of disbelief more strongly. All things being equal a standard dose of MDMA (100mg) is not going to be physically harmful except in rare cases of acute allergy or the like (much like acute allergies to aspirine or penicillin or ethanol). Of course there is always a risk to any behaviour, the key is being aware of those risks and making informed decisions on what you are going to do with your life.
The real issue is personal responsibility. I'm a responsible person, and i would appreciate the opportunity to pursue happiness however i see fit so long as it doesn't infringe upon the rights of others. Teach people to respect themselves and others and the substances around them and i think that you will find that they will rise to the level of expectation (which is not to say that there won't be those that will be bitter disappointments, there will be, there is no avoiding that).
Fuzzy
P.S. I'm glad to see that you are still monitoring the thread Mo2, most people would have just come in here, flamed away and then left.

I have a update on my story. I understand that he had taken 2 double stack Mitsubishi. This is just hear say at this point. I will know more after I speak with my friends his parents. Would someone please tell what this means. Thanks.

Motherof2-- The drug ecstacy (MDMA) is often times pressed into pills and the pills are "labelled" with a logo-- A double stacked Mitsubishi is one of these and happens to have a Mitsubishi logo on it. Any pill maker can put whatever they want on a pill and the label or logo is no guarantee that the pill contains Ecstacy or that it contains a certain amount of Ecstacy.
I am a father of three boys, two of which have taken E. I ocassionally take it myself. I am very interested in what happened in the case that you posted about. Aside from the allergic reaction that was mentioned by another poster, Ecstacy does appear to be safe when taken responsibly. Taking two pills is not really considered irresponsible unless he was a first time user. I would consider it very irresponsible for someone to give or encourage a first time user to take two pills.

The directly toxic dose is very high for MDMA. Its doubtful the cause of death was "overdose".
More likely an allergic reaction, dehydration, water intoxication or liver/heart failure.
Jase.

Perhaps another issue (besides how sad it is whenever someone dies due to drug use), is simple legality.
If ecstasy was made legal, or legal to get over counter AFTER the doctor told you about it's dangers and the like. Or if smart shops would take the 'education' role upon themselves (which I think they would if they were asked *hypothetical USA smart shops *) Then the education material would be out there.
Don't drink too much water, because you can become intoxicated by it and quite possibly DIE as a result.
Some people have severe allergic reactions to ecstasy (MDMA, MDA, MDE), and given even a regular dose (or two times that ammount) could be fatal.
You can become very easily dehydrated
You can over-heat and die as well
All of these have been mentioned, as well as "perhaps he was mixing drugs". Which of course will probably never be revealed, but he *could* have been... you never know unless you do a testing on the person (where as friends tend to not give out that information).
If ecstasy were legal it would not have adulterants in it. It would be pure as regulations of it's synthesis would be put into force.
If ecstasy were legal there would be far fewer cases of "allergic reaction" associated with it, because the knowledge about this reaction would be put out into the public.
WARNING: You could be fatally allergic to ecstasy!!
Just like asprin, and MANY MANY more drugs attainable in the stores and over the counter.
I know there are a few that sit right out on the shelves of Longs Drugs that if I took one pill of I could easily die if no one called the paramedic.
Knowledge is the key.
It's sad cause it's happening more and more today with the rise in recreational ecstasy use... but what's even more sad is these can be prevented, but the governments 'war on drugs' is not allowing prevention. I would go as far as saying that the war on drugs is killing more than it's helping.
Pyro
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Frequency. Music. Sound. Imagination. Reality. Worlds. Hope. Love. Communication. Common Sense. Community.

Jase; Could you supply a link on liver/heart failure information?

Mother of 2, the more information can freely be disseminated, the more we can make informed decisions on what we put into our bodies.
I grieve for the child, his family, and all around them. It is a terrible way to die, rest assured that the majority of us take extreme caution with our selves.

That is very upsetting to hear as everyone who uses this board is trying to prevent exactly that sort of tragedy. It is to be hoped that swallowing pills bought randomly with no real knowledge of their contents will decline as ways and means of testing them first become more poular. Hoping that people will stop using pills because of rare tragedies like this has been shown not to work. This is mostly mostly because they are so rare and get so exaggerated by the media that often they are simply ignored by pill users as the story doesn't remotely match anything in their experience.
Please wait for inquest or autopsy reports before deciding the cause of death. The highest profile ecstasy-related death in the UK was sensationalised as an ecstasy overdose on a first pill on the front pages of the tabloid press. A public outrage ensued, political knee-jerk reactions got to work and suddenly I've become a dangerous criminal subject to stiffer sentencing than a drink-drive killer, wife-beater or illegal firearm owner. why? In the past I have had in my possession a certain amount a substance I know makes me more sociable, less violent, less shy in the presence of strangers and more tolerant of the faults and prejudices of others while at the same time helping me avoid the oft-proven ills of alcohol, the drug of choice of many of my friends. They frequently feel nauseous during or after a night out, ill the next day, sometimes aggressive, frequently sexist and offensive to women when they think they are being hilariously funny and often physically need to drink. They know they consume more than 'recommended guidelines' and are prone to liver damage, kidney problems, heart disease, obesity and brain damage. There is a fair chance of them being one of the 30,000 or so alcohol-related deaths in the UK each year when they are older.
I have never been in an ecstasy fuelled argument or fight, never felt a physical need for more ecstasy, never felt nauseous or incapable of waking the day after taking ecstasy or ill-advisedly taken advantage of an equally intoxicated young lady under the influence of ecstasy and have never met anyone I didn't like who has taken it.
I am possibly at risk of a mild/moderate degree of serotonin depletion in the long run. I do run the risk of being one of the 7 or 8 "ecstasy-related deaths" per year in this country (an estimated 500,000 users per week to give a sense of scale, a roughly equivalent percentage of anglers die trying to catch fish each year), though that is unlikely as I know the risks and how to prevent/minimise them. Not by education from a caring government trying to prevent these deaths, you understand. They seem to think that if they don't educate youngsters about ecstasy they will never hear about it and never try it, forgetting that teenagers love the thrill of doing things they are told not to. The internet has been a great source of information, biased and unbiased, and I can honestly say I would never have tried ecstasy if the scientific evidence of its risks wasn't published on the net.
Research into MDMA based on very large regular doses given to rats showed depletion of serotonin levels. It was suggested that this may be due to neurological damage and the same may happen in humans, though no tests had been done to suggest this. With remarkable swiftness it was given class A status and banned across the world at the insistence of the USA. That is the primary reason for its ban - not because it causes convulsions, not because it contains heroin or lsd, not because small amounts are likely to cause overdose. Incredibly, the same scientist who came up with these results was consulted on the safety of fenfluramine for appetite suppression (the original reason for the synthesis of MDMA in 1913) and told the FDA that fenfluramine would have exactly the same effects as MDMA on the serotonergic system, only for it to be approved for use by the public! (note:it has been largely withdrawn recently on an unrelated suspicion of associated heart valve anomalies in some patients). MDMA on the same evidence from the same man remains a class A substance. The power of pharmaceutical companies or the large girths of politicians would have to be suspected of involvement somewhere as logic was clearly on holiday that week.
Deaths caused by MDMA are rare, I don't think a single case of MDMA overdose has ever been recorded at autopsy (although frequently reported by the press). The main causes of death are listed in the answers above and are mainly avoidable by harm reduction education, mainly avoided by schools to sidestep the barrage of complaints by parents demanding to know why their children are "being taught about drugs!" (because ignorance can be fatal strangely doesn't satisfy it seems). Allergic reaction is possible but again has never been published as a cause of death and cannot happen on a first ingestion. Anaphylaxis should be easily recognised and treated by medics if detected soon enough.
The symptoms you describe are atypical of excess MDMA consumption, and the amount contained in two of the best pills ever found would struggle overdose a rabbit. Having said that, I am NOT a doctor and unlike some will not fly in the face of the evidence when it arrives. To say ecstasy killed someone because they were sold a pill marketed as ecstasy by someone with no actual knowledge of the contents or their amounts and no quality control procedures is sadly media-inspired assumption and scape-goating. The most experienced of pathologists won't suggest a cause of death without performing certain tests, yet newspaper reporters do it all the time based solely on rumour, hearsay and the desire to make the front page. Sadly more people read the newspapers than the pathology reports and even more sadly believe them before turning to the story about seeing Elvis in the post office. Please wait for the autopsy report before following the well worn path of blaming MDMA. Potentially lethal substances are sometimes unscupulously used in pills by atavistic dealers/manufacturers, but probably the least potentially fatal is ecstasy, or MDMA.

I want to Thank You all for the information that you have provided me. I am doing more research on this drug to bring myself more informed. Whether it was a allergic reaction or another chemical involved the tragedy is still the same. I hope this tragedy helps educate and save one more life of these wonderful teenagers and young adults that I have come to be so fond of. And you guys (gals) have given some helpful information. When I have more information on this death I will be sure to let you all know. I wish you all good health and happiness however you choice to find it. If anyone else has information to provide please do. Again Thanks.

Motherof2... I would like to take a second and thank you for your post and more importantly thank you for your openmindedness .
Eddie

Motherof2--I second Eddie's thank you ! Please keep in touch. And something I forgot in my first post: My symapthies go out to you and the family of the dead boy.

Likewise........I am truly sorry for the loss of a young man supposed to be having the best night of his life.
I should have mentioned that many, if not all my references were found in the articles section of www.ecstasy.org, an excellent resource for MDMA information.

Mo2- I'd like to echo Eddie's sentiments, knowledge is power and it behooves us all to occassionally be reminded of the risks inherent in our actions. It is heartening to see that though you have been personally touched by this tragedy that you are willing to maintain an open mind. Kudos to you, if there were more people like you who were willing to critically evaluate the situations they find themselves in, rather than succumbing to knee-jerk reactions, the world would doubtless be a kinder, fairer, all-together nicer place.
Fuzzy

Hello everone,
Here's the scoop, the coroner report. This young man died of a overdose of this ecstasy. His father stated that that the coroner report stated that there were as many as 9 pills taken. What the exact amount of chemical that was in his body, I didn't ask. The report also states that this young man organs were in excellent condition, and that he would of lived to be a ripe old age. But the heart wasn't able to take the amount of drugs so it shut down. The memorial service is tonight 5/10 and some say they will be glad to put this behind them. But do you ever put something like this behind you? I think that it will always be a part of our life that is now missing. To all of you that gave me information on this thank you. And what ever path you choice in life may it be the right one. My thoughts and prayers are with you all. Thank you again.
Motherof2

To begin I sympathize with the family and friends of the deceased young man. The only way to prevent future senseless tragedies such as this is EDUCATION. As when watching the exploitative story of the young man who was sadly featured in the throes of death on 60 Minutes a few weeks ago, I wondered what might have happened had this person been educated about the fact that more is NOT better when it comes to X. With more educational groups spreading the word that that amount is extremely dangerous, and that the high does not increase after a certain amount is in the system, we might see an aversion to overdoses. MDMA is comparatively safe when used in responsible amounts (one to two pills per dose).