How much further can we go (as a species)

This question arises in my head quite often.. Being one in the generation of Y, I was born into a world that would grow with me. 1982, my birth year, the first PC (apple computers, which ever apple was out) was released... around 1982 was when big talks about the Internet started to really materialize. In 1983, on year after I am born, when all of my connections are starting to form... the world around me is being influenced by another baby... the net. As I grow, it is exponentially gaining a base of users, starting first from hard core computer scientist/hacker-types, stringing into internet supercompanies like AOL in the early 90s.

In a way, the 'Y' generation can be seen as experimental. We're the first of it's kind. We have all the information we could ever need, right here at our fingertips... within our generation, instead of couch potatos, we've created a breed youth bent on nothing but instant gratification, something that works well with the drug world, as well as the world of computers and video games. Both go hand and hand.

The question with this is this. Putting a realistic frame over everything.. how much longer do you think we can go at the current 'primitive' state? In an age where information can be accessed multiple ways, with multiple possible presentations of that information, and an infinite amout of ways to interpret, as well as a gereration who is completely at home with the technology and able to take full advatange..... where music is as free as information, because it is information. Where at the touch of a button, or a combination of, we can look up what would take at least a drive to the library to find only peices of.

Now research can be looked at by everyone.. Now everyone has the capability of "knowing". News is posted quicker than ever before, and just as soon as the news is posted, an alternative opinion is available.... or at least, a bunch of information can verify or discount, or challenge.

Is the world coming to a stage of efficient multitasking? Is there such a thing as too much information? How are computers shaping us? really think about it.. and report. It's pretty staggering to think how much the world has changed.. just in the past 20 years...... what will our generation do to seal our slice of the cake? Will there even be any cake left for others to enjoy? How long can a species live with outdated governing ideals, in a world that is very transparent, where trust is very rare. How long can we live? Is the world passing our predecessors by?

Basically.. where do you think the next 10 years will take us? any response is welcome.

I believe eventually we are going to have to take control of our own evolution. sooner than later.

do you really think it's possible? to control our evolution? gonna have to be more specific than that...

I mean i know this is a stupid question and all.. and it's all just speculative.. . ... . . but in a world where we grew up watching sci-fi, teleportation.................... where are we

It depends on what taking control of our evolution actually means. We have taken control of our environment in a limited way, but have sufferent side effects cause of it. Dunno what taking control of our evolution would imply really, whether its DNA control, mind control, or greater social control/environmental control.

on subcontious level he probably means he thinks we will want to see the result as a generation that is devoted to such things. but the very fact that we almost all where shoes now is undoubtedly going to be a turning point in a spieces that could live long enough to see the results, but not a generation or even a long stran of them with pens as there has been.

i think we need to accomodate our reality....


our reality is becoming more and more linearly directed toward the abstract... yeah probably not very sensible words there....

I think one thing that we should not ever abandon is our primitive logic... the logic that you would imagine if you would look at the world through the eyes of a chimp.... or even a cat, or a mouse...


if you look at our body, our environment.. it's getting more and more compact, yet expansive on the same coin. I believe taking control can mean various things... taking control is merely a reaction to something... .. . if everything is based on reactions.. the only control is still survival amongst the reaction, to keep your thread running...

The human animal is becoming something different... so we need to accomodate that...

I don't know.. could mean dna manipulation... could mean perfection of a science such as nanotechnology and quite possibly cold fushion.... each person infused with the ability to regulate more than they ever thought possible... altering modes of consciousness with ease, through gentle control of hormones and other transmitters, telekinesis through some hyperconscious computer relays, infused in our very cells...

i dunno.. i've always hypothosized simplification of the human animal.. through some kinda dna mapping and replication type of thing... where the mystery behind our instincts and memories could be uncovered somehow, and recorded... an almost synthetic-yet-alive clone of the human organism... where intelligence and memory can be passed on through generations.

This would allow for greater manipulation of our environment, through manipulation of ourselves... we could, for instance... alter the makeup of the sequences that control skin texture, or over all body mass, or perhaps with special grafts, be able to survive in deep space, with only a suit. We could easily shut our body processes down for long journies, a form of hybernation of some sort, or we could even revert into some crazy state of energy in wake of any threatening event, just to become transiently aware, and safe from danger... and then when time is proper, our dna sequence reconstitutes to the exact state that we left the realm of the "alive".

i hate the argument against engineering ourselves... no matter how similar we are, we will always find enough difference to find ourselves, to find the unique soul that is cultured through experience....

and i hate the argument if god wanted us one way, he would have created us that way... god created us with mere consciousness.. our bodies are only a vessel for this... only our tool to communicate....

why not make that tool better, more maleable?



as beings of pure consciousness... i don't see it fit that we limit ourselves to these bodies.. these imperfect things.... I mean i know it's all sci-fi... but it's still ideas... nevermind....

stoned man rambling here

How much further can we go as a species?

All the way! Soon the pshysical world will give way to the world of dreams and imagination, the human species will finally realise its true potential as an eternal being that can transcend time and space.

Yeah in my opinion it won't be long until people start unlocking the potential of the human mind.

On the tips of everyone's tongues and that thought you can never quite squeeze out is the key.

We just wait 'til someone cracks it.

In answer to your question, I think we will go all the way (lol) In the terms of, however far we can go, we will go.

We are already controlling our evolution; you may just disagree with the manner of control.

We are creating -- have already created -- a world in which things important to our daily lives are incomprehensible to the indivdual human. A lifetime is not long enough for any person to gain clear understanding of more than a fraction of the technological, economic, social or other forces that pervade and affect our lives. And as to those things we do not understand, but that affect our lives, are we not then like leaves blown in a breeze?

And due to the growing complexity of life -- a complexity we ourselves are creating and promoting -- the mastery is given to those entities that CAN understand the whole, rather than mere fractions, of the forces that surround us. What entities are those? Corporations, universities, nations, computers. As we embrace a world that requires US to have limited, specialized understanding, we create the next generation of entities that have a better grasp of the whole. Entities that, while they may not replace us, will replace our dominance over the earth and leave us as mere servants to them.

This may get into the field of memes. Of ideas that have their own evolution, their own quotient of survivability, their own inherent agendas. Memes like "technology is good." Does not that idea have an inherent survivability, in that those who oppose that idea, who reject it, will be technologically inferior to those who embrace it, leaving the opposition in an ever weaker position? Is it not inherent in that idea that humans will continue to INCREASE the complexity of the world? We operate vehicles whose operation we do not understand, that we cannot build or repair ourselves. We prepare food using appliances whose operation we do not understand, that we cannot build or repair. We buy clothes produced by processes we do not understand, that we cannot build or repair. Our homes are made of materials that are prepared by processes we do not understand, cannot replicate ourselves. We communicate with each other using devices whose operation we do not understand, that we cannot build or repair. Our recreation is mostly centered on devices, too, whose operation we do not understand, that we cannot build or repair (tv's, movie theatres, video games, rollercoasters, etc.) The knowledge we now gain about the world is obtained through processes we do not understand, that we cannot replicate ourselves.

You may claim knowledge or understanding (wholly or partially) of one or a handful of the things within a category above, but none of us can claim knowledge or understanding of all, or even most, of these things.

And we are continuing further and further, faster and faster on this path. A path that praises knowledge and advancement even while it inherently INCREASES the level of our own ignorance about the daily operation of the world around us. From understanding 90% of the technology that affects our daily lives, to 60% to 30% to 10%...where are we now? Do you think most people understand 5% of the technology that affects their daily lives?

And what do we gain by intentionally creating a world where our ignorance about the influences on our daily lives is increased? Why, we gain some knowledge about our past or future. We surrender knowledge about the present for knowledge about the past or future. So we can now better predict a future storm, or better undestand how the dinosaurs became extinct.

While we individually lack comprehension of the whole, such comprehension does exist on a level above us. On a level in which humans are mere parts of a greater entity that has such comprehension. Where our minds, or collective knowledge, is pooled. We race to the creation of a new conscious breed of entities in which we are mere cogs playing a limited role for the greater good of that larger entity. Like our liver cells doing their work for our human body. Once, long before humans evolved, before any liver-possessing life evolved, those cells that are now are liver may have been independent organisms. Tiny, weak, brainless, acting on basic instinct. And they found they were better able to survive in a group of similar organisms. And that group acted together, and acted together, until they began to specialize in the services they provided to the group, and they evolved to better perform those particular services, until they were no longer independently viable, and they had effectively merged into a single entity in which each of those previously independent organisms had become a mere parts.

From organisms to organs over millions of years. And such is the process of life. No, those organisms did not become extinct. They became, millions of years later, the masters of this planet. Do you think your liver rejoices in that mastery? Or do you think it was better off as a weak and stupid -- but independent -- organism?

This is one aspect of the process of evolution, the shift from organism to organ. It is one way an organism, though not becoming extinct, loses its indepedent identity. And it is a process that is going on right now with people. We are becoming mere organs in a larger whole. And there is resistance. As our youth tries ever harder and more desperately to be stand out independently through body modification and mutilation, through unique music. But such things are superficialities and do not really make a difference.

This is not to make a moral judgment on it. We can choose to continue increasing the complexity of the world, go ever further to master the solar system, the galaxy. But by the time such mastery arrives, we will certainly be little more than organs in some larger entity, perhaps having even lost any sense of our own independent selves.

The alternative? Well, if we decide we'd rather stay stupid and independent, we could embrace the "back to nature" philosophy. Eliminate unnecessary technology, or at least stem the tide of technological advancement that is drowning our individual efficacy. Recognize what it threatens to take from us, and march forward with technology in a slow, planned and careful manner in only those areas that we deem necessary.

Personally, I don't need a larger television, a faster computer, a more complicated air bag system in my car, better pesticides, a stronger plastic, a new type of antacid, or a better way to carbon date million year old remains. I think we can make do with simplifying the world in many ways, while focusing what technological advancement we have on particular things. Curing life-threatening diseases, for example.

I can see a world where we have trimmed our technological reliance like trimming fat from a steak, leaving a more natural world where we also focus on teaching children how the technology that we DO have works. So that every child would understand and could fix a television, a car, a computer by the time they are 18. And would understand, at least generally, the global economic relationship that exists. And have similar understanding in other fields. I do not think this is beyond the ability of the average child. It seems to me a large part of the complaints of youth about school, and their aversion to it, is its seeming uselessness in their lives. They see no application to learning of ancient history or reading plays in archaic English that reads like gibberish, or of learning geometric proofs. Such things can await a decision by the student to go into a field requiring mastery of math or english or detailed ancient history. But learning how to fix your television, or your video game console? How their shoes are made, or how food gets to their grocery store? How a dam is built? How a refrigerator works? These things are relevant to their daily lives.

And not everyone has to understand everything. But I think it would be a good thing to trim the technological fat from our society to the pont where kids learn, say, 25% of the technology that affects their daily lives. Some may learn one parts, some others. But we will not be at a point where, if you took 100 Americans and put them in a wilderness, you'd probably -- even with so many people -- not have the knowledge to come close to replicating our present day technology.

The change from organism to organ seems inevitable -- the alternative being utter extinction and replacement as a species. These are really the only two possibilities awaiting humanity. But I see a way to CONTROL and be SELF-AWARE of our shift from organism to organ, in a way that makes it a thing of beauty and fellowship and rejoicing rather than something we ignorantly race headlong towards, only to find ourselves bound to servitude of a greater entity by chains we ourselves have forged even as we failed to recognize them as such.

~psychoblast~

We cannot control evolution, however, we've been constantly altering it. Whenever we put a substance into our body that affects the way we progress naturally, we tamper with our own evolution. For example, we do not follow the typical "survival of the fittest" radiation that all other organisms do. Our weak is allowed to live with their diseases/conditions with medication and allowed to produce offspring. This, of course, is not the natural course of evolution....... and by no means do I think that we should kill off the weak, I'm just stating a basic aspect of our humanistic existence.

Everytime we put function-altering medication into our bodies, we are helping to the change to course of our evolution and that's basically what evo. is - organisms responding and adapting to environmental changes. We must at the very least keep up artificially with our changes, because somewhere down the line, life will be extremely difficult to maintain because of how sensitive we've made ourselves. Sunscreens and clean drinking water are just some of the contributors that tell our bodies - hey, these harsh elements have been removed form our lifestyle so we will not evolve to deal with the dangers naturally.

control is a quantum world

control is hard to really explain when you try to be specific.

In a sense... I am controlling my hands, which are depressing certain k-e-y-s to make words on the computer screen. However, my communication is bound by controls of my culture, language.
Also, My post is a reaction to a reply.

In another level.. my brain is firing, naturally drawn to this tool of information, this computer. is this control?

I fix myself a nice meal... is this control? I was hungry, starving really...


anyways, don't like to say control.

perhaps, go with our best observation, gather what we can to pass it on and solidify our life.






psychoblast.. very well thought out, easy to read... as always man.. nice

I fix myself a nice meal... is this control? I was hungry, starving really...

Click to expand...

you were starving?
perhaps a reflection of inability to control your stomach. Did you become hungry,perhaps, as a result of the pressures that 'modern culture' puts upon you?
..I dunno

EVER wonder if we are really evolving up the efficiancy ladder or down the spiritual tiolet?

yeah , antinazi... i do.

I think it might be a lot easier nowdays to get lost. But the way is so easily lit...

it's kind of like, we're living in a state of reality... that is far from what our organism took off from. Far better? not nessecarily.

I'm reminded of a thread called that addressed mind expansion.. .yes i think it is in this forum. I noticed people agreed on the fact that it is neither a productive thing nor a deductive thing.

It is merely conductive to whatever channel you can manage to focus it upon.

I believe that in todays world, you can obsess over too many insignificant details, and forget what it's all about.

I think we've always known what it was all about, and what we needed to do. I can remember as young as 3, thinking about getting married, and being a father. Having something to survive in.

Nowdays, everything that we "know" is falling apart. Certain things from around this connected world are colliding... some are creating new things... but most are just making people aware... aware that they aren't 'right'... that they don't 'know'. with such insecurity, even if it is subconscious, people will do whatever they will, but get easily confused in themselves, all wrapped up... and that worked for awhile.. as long as the choices where narrow for us. Yet the rewards, kept simple. Now, we have many options, too many. The sense of primitive logic that is in us all, has seemed to have left many, yet it is completely exposed... you are not in control.

As soon as we feel violated, we try to relenquish anything pertaining to what held the place as the violator, and we dig down the line from there, until we find the root of the whole problem. We reconcile.

What happens if everything is reconciled? Can we really continue on this path?

I don't want to address free will.

I believe all we can do as humans is be.

whatever is most comfortable, we will find.

...............................subject matter tires soul..

we are not in control... 'god' is in control...

but what is your organisms speculative viewpoints?




isn't hope only an emotion? hope makes us look beyond the mountain... but sometimes we can lose hope when we're already locked in a path that only works on that system of chance.....

bleeep... tick.. boing toing ... tick... bleep... toing boing

hive-

perhaps modern culture does tell me i'm hungry.


or perhaps because i am down in energy, i feel i need to eat.

i have chronic pain disorders, that come and go in intensity... so sometimes that controls me.

but what controls the pain?

when i give in..

when my being gets too tired...

then i sleep.. as in now...

goodnight and happy mornings to all

oh, wait.. no.. wasn't starving

or perhaps because i am down in energy, i feel i need to eat.

Click to expand...

Those pressures 'modern society' puts on you does tend to drain energy.
The idea is to find a way at topping-up, maintaining & balancing ones energy whilst having a POSITIVE impact on your surrounding reality/environment.

*BIG HUGZ*:D %)

=o-HiveY-o=

I really hope that someday mankind will find a way to escape from the physical world. To really let their dreams and their imagination be their guide rather than their endless analyzation of mute points.

But it will take at least another "age" for this to occur. We've gone through an age of enlightenment, an age of artistic beauty, an age of computers...when put in order, it all leads AWAY from imagination and dreams a TOWARDS deep thought and scientific study. Which is ok, don't get me wrong, because in order to truely release ourselves, we must understand HOW. But I think eventually we as humans will realize that scientific thought merely limits our potential, and we will begin to think in a whole new way, one which none of us as of now could imagine.

After this change of thought it will take quite some time, probally a couple of centuries, and the human form will begin to evolve in the direction of unlimited creativity, rather than limited academic knowlage.

Some of the actual changes that would have to take place in our world in order for these evoloutions to begin the complete removal of money, of any form, from our society...the automation(in our brains) of processes which today we still consider complicated...the complete dissintegration of any and all borders and seperations of humankind, ie:state, country, race, and eventually, even planet, etc...possibly the ability to go into trips and highs simply by wanting to, thus eliminating the harmful aspects of drugs and maximizing the enlightenment received...the realization that religion isn't real, but merely something to help humans cope with everyday life, and when we move beyond that extremely limited thought process, the possibilities of advancement are boundless.

These are just ideas, but I really think that once we begin to evolve again, and people begin to understand the hole that the human culture has been stuck in for the last how long, the effects will be fairly quick and drastic.

I so wish I could live to see that. That is the world I want to live in.

Spyke I really love your ideas.

We need to unite as a race of humans, and find a way of living that doesn't require money.

Religion can't take us much further anymore, people need to start realising that all they need is inside of them, in a belief of self.

We also need to destroy the ego, or the importance of being accepted into something that doesn't exist.

If people are beginning to think of evolution then this might be the start of it.
Who knows, in years to come all your brilliant ideas may be seen as the pioneering ideas.

I agree about the destruction of the ego as well. One of the most prominent ideas in our society right now is that you are a more important person if you have more money or look better or whatever else. Either that or you are a genius professor who can work out infinite strings of numbers. But take one truely open minded person(ex. one from this page) and give him 5 hits of acid and have a deep philosophical discussion with him. There is no way to even descibe the emotions and the imagination that this person will go through. No Paris Hilton or Kobe Bryant or Harvard Professor could ever even start to have the thoughts that this one drugged up stoner is having.

We as a society won't allow ourselves to think beyong our money and our status, yet. I'm really thinking that if we continue how we are going now, the only thing that could bring another age upon us is almost total destruction, which will happen if we don't start to enlighten ourselves VERY soon! My only concern is that the wrong people will survive(sounds bad, but I don't mean it that way!) and humanity as a whole will be plunged farther into this stature-based society of today.

When we stop insulting the ideas of others and instead, listen to anything and everything that seems like a crazy theory or science fiction, only THEN will we as a race begin to truely evolve, mentally or physically.

And as far as physical evolution is concerned...it will have almost everything to do with how our mental states evolve. If we continue as we are then our defense systems and such as that will build themselves more and more, striking the weak and ugly from the gene pool. However, if we do somehow reach enlightenment one day, our physical evolution could be more concentrated on imagination and creativity. Maybe even millions of years from now, a complete lack of need for hands or feet. Why have hands when you only need your mind?

mmm...thats such a happy though...Imma go smoke a bowl and meditate on that for while