Are Microsoft Products really that bad?

Most techy geeks slight microsoft for having shitty software. I disagree. I think Windows XP, Outlook and IE are all really nice programs that people dis a lot. You do have to set them up (not like you dont have to set linux up hehe) for optimal security but once you do there is no problem imo.

cany anyone convince me to stop using a MS product because of security or lack of features? or is there some underlying "i hate bill gates" or "i hate big corporations" thing going on? in general i dont like big corporations but it seems to me MS has actually done a lot of good things for the computing world

thoughts?

I think with a lot of computer things, as with a lot of things in life in general, there are people that use appliances intensely, and people that don't.

If you're a serious cook, I'd freak out if you told me you were getting some $50 store brand mixer, and tell you how you can't get less than kitchenaid. However, if you never really use it that often, and just for basic stuff, then why not just spend less and get the basic thing...

So I could totally understand a techy person almost having a heart attack over someone using a certain OS...but in reality they are going to push it a whole lot harder than the average person.

I'm not a computer person. I love computers, I spend a lot of time on them, but I don't use any of the features to the extent that I could use them. I don't network anything, I don't store anything important at home, and I don't operate any home-business sort of thing. IE seems easy to me, and is the path of least resistance, and so I'm fine with it. There are enough other programs in life that I have to learn to work with that are specialized things, that just my overall os isn't of *that* much concern to me.

i do use computers a lot.. a whole lot.. and i think ms makes pretty good products, especially office, windows and ie. i'd rather run apache as a web server as opposed to iis but thats just because i know it better

Microsoft products aren't bad. People don't like microsoft because of security problems, and bloat. XP is wonderful but it eventually bloats up to like 3gb. When MS makes a product they usually just build on top of their previous code. This makes the products crash and makes it hard to determine any problems.

Linux is a faster OS because it has a small footprint and can be streamlined and custimized. Most websites are run off linux machines using apache. Google is run of of a bunch of old pcs running linux.

MS could write an entirely new os and make it crash free and super fast.

I think IE sucks, i use opera and i like it. Mozilla is probably my second choice. The only reason i use IE is because it works with every page not 99.9% of them like opera. Some sites just don't like opera, its not opera's fault.
I use MS products because they have a monopoly on the technology and money, they use their money and programers to produce products that set standards. When they create a product others have to try to mimic it to compete.

In conclusion Microsoft is good but they do shitty half assed work... Sometimes

They're pretty Monopolized, which I think irritates a lot of people ... but I think their products are good, now at least ... previous OS were all terrible, but XP is nearly flawless for me ... hardly ever crashes, even with my hardcore usage of it.

yeah thats what i've found.. i leave it running for weeks at a time with no problems at all

There is nothing overly wrong with Microsoft products - they are just bloated with pointless crap. Also I think people despise Microsoft for the monopoly they have on the market - cause lets face it, what other OS options does the layman have?

windows 2000 is a very good operating system, and IE also works like a charm. you can throw horrid code at it, and it will still display a good looking page. every piece of software has flaws, microsoft products included. i never really had any major problems, and that's not because i only use two programs when i turn on the computer for 4 minutes a day, like some users.

galahan said:

People don't like microsoft because of security problems and bloat

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i think most of the security problems come from users who dont secure their systems. perhaps MS is at fault for not closing security holes by default but my winxp computer passes all internet security tests with no problem. i also have set my IE to be very secure but i have to do a bit of extra work that the average user wouldnt like

anyone willing and able to setup linux can setup thier windows puter to be secure is how i feel

the bloat is probably a good point though.


why dont you like IE? as a web designer i like it because it has some CSS goodies and it's easier to program the DOM imo too

When you are talking about the desktop environment windows is the best. But, on the server and workstation linux rules because of price, stability, scalability, and customizability.(not sure if thats a word or if it is a word the right spelling)

As an end-user, I absolutely despise IE, just for its look and feel. Having to go back to it after Mozilla makes me feel sick. Mozilla is far, far superior, and doesn't have security holes. Sure, some sites work in IE and not in other browsers. Why? Because they're not written properly, they're not standards compliant.

See here for a recent story on the security holes in IE.

Next issue I have with MS is, as others have said, the bloatware, and the fact that old software is now unusable. I can't run programmes that I bought a few years ago on my new PC - they won't run under Win2000. I've got to keep upgrading my Office products, because if I stick to the old versions, my files won't be compatible with anyone else's. Till I discovered I could just work in Open Office, and save my files in RTF. et voila, instant cross-platform and application compatibility.

MS makes corporate customers pay a fee for the right to upgrade their software in the future (this is non-trivial, something like a third of the original cost of the software over a couple of years). You pay this fee even if they don't release a software upgrade in that time period. If they do release an upgrade, you then have to pay for the upgrade.

That ranting aside, I don't think their products are actually bad per se. I think their business practices suck.

IE needs to get tab browsing for me to ever go back to it

I just hate the fact that Microsoft has really bloaty/bugy software that is riddled with security holes, which they charge huge amounts for their software.

They are trying to monopolize the market, by not allowing any 3rd party software on their OS in the future. Such as AOL, instead they will just have their own ISP on there.

Microsoft has only succeded imo because of its aggresiveness. For every single MS product there's either a freeware/cheaper version of software out there that can do the job alot better, without being riddled with holes.

People who say 'IE is great', well it's a sad and proven fact, that it's not, it doesnt follow standard coding complients as stated above, it's the most un-secure program that microsoft have released (excluding the os it's self).

Personaly, if my ISP supported linux, i wouldnt have this windows logo with 'start' in the corner.

there's nothing wrong with microsoft products.. they're simply inelegant and bloated.. but they get the job done and they don't lack in features.. microsoft software is like a spec-laden american SUV compared to a sleek italian sportscar.. they'll both get you where you want to go, but in a different way.. because i'm cheap and i'm familiar with them and there's lots of decent software for it, i use the ms operating system and the hardware that goes with it.. it works for me, but i always get the sense that anything worthwhile that arises from my machine is a result of the system and its software applying brute force, whereas with macs and older, now defunct computers, it seemed to be a product of finesse and grace and ingenuity on the part of the programmers and designers.. i guess there's only two options now, and while i don't particularly like using apple computers (due to lack of experience with them), i can definitely tell which one is the martial artist and which one is the school bully..

smoove. said:

Personaly, if my ISP supported linux, i wouldnt have this windows logo with 'start' in the corner.

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that's an interesting statement - what exactly would your ISP have to do to explicitly support linux?

surely, these days, things are standardised enough that you could install linux without your ISP even being aware?

i have cable at home and the cable company doesn't support OS X. that didn't stop me getting my room-mate's Mac online in about 15 seconds

alasdair

hehe yeah i saw that and wondered too. if they give you a specific dialer program or something you can probably get around it. my isp wanted me to use some weird dialer but i just setup a regular network connection in windows

I was always of the belief that the only thing stopping you from connecting to an ISP was finding a compatible linux modem - not the ISP itself.

hmm looks like IE has a lot more of holes but mozilla and opera also have critical flaws

some of this probably has to do with the fact so many more people use IE and also i think more people want to find problems with ie hehe

the problem with microsoft is, we dont know any other alternative. There is no competition in the market; we say these products are good because we simply dont know how they can be BEST. what if there were like 3 companies making different OSs? they would have to compete very heavily and lower their prices and make sure their products are secure as well as elegant and what not. I personally think computer technology (OS wise, not hardware) would definately be much cheaper and more efficient if they introducted more competitors.

Remember the old IBMs? i mean, the 386 or the 486? those were expensive because back then, IBM had the whole market. But then they sold their patent for chips, and now intel and other companies can sell computer chips which have made computer prices pullmet in the last decade. With this pullmeting, faster computers are being released at insane speeds, its nearly too fast for its own good!


But dont worry, i think in about 50 years or so, Microsoft will no longer exist, because countries are already switching to Linux. There is a recent agreement between korea, china and other asian countries to write their own OS for their government because of the security holes in Microsoft. It is stuff like this thats going to destroy the monopoly that is Microsoft.

haste said:

There is nothing overly wrong with Microsoft products - they are just bloated with pointless crap. Also I think people despise Microsoft for the monopoly they have on the market - cause lets face it, what other OS options does the layman have?

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Exactly! I despise Microsoft for the monopoly they have! And, being quite an advanced computer user, I don't like the whole 'wizard based' structure that Windows XP has. It is designed for the average user who doesnt have the technical knowledge to do things like networking and stuff (i mean no offense to these people at all). When you use these wizards to set things up, a computer techy like me has no idea what they are really doing, say, at system level - because it's all embedded and done automatically and hidden away from us.

I much prefer to play around with Linux, which, although it is a lot less user friendly, it is a better operating system for someone like me who wants to configure everything how they want it to be done, and not how Microsoft want it to be done. And I much prefer the idea of having an open-source' operating system, rather than one from a greedy company who hide the guts of their operating system so people cant play around with it that much.

Oh, and someone mentioned using Mozilla web browser earlier. I'm using Firebird. Its pretty neat. The problem with IE is the use of Active-X controls, which is where most of Microsofts vulnerabilities occur. Firebird doesnt have these...

And Linux does have its security problems too. I have to patch my system a fair bit. its just that people dont exploit the vulnerabilities because it wouldnt have any noticeable impact.