More Grand Theft Auto controversy

Haitians to Picket Over Computer Game
By REUTERS

Published: December 11, 2003



Filed at 1:04 p.m. ET

MIAMI (Reuters) - Haitian community leaders vowed to proceed with plans to picket retailers selling a video game in which players are exhorted to ``kill all the Haitians,'' saying the manufacturer's pledge to change future editions did not solve the problem with games on store shelves now.

After an outcry from the Haitian community over the game ``Grand Theft Auto: Vice City,'' and to a lesser extent from leaders of the Cuban American community that players of the game are also urged to kill, Rockstar Games this week announced it would remove references to Haitians from future copies.

``It's too little, too late,'' said Ringo Cayard of the Haitian American Foundation. ``They made the money, the message went through.''

``The presence of Grand Theft Auto: Vice City on the shelves of national distributors and retailers ... continues to constitute a clear and present danger for Haitian nationals in the United States. Residents of Little Haiti (in Miami) have become like a sitting duck,'' Jean-Robert Lafortune of the Haitian-American Grassroots Coalition told Reuters on Thursday.

Haitian groups decided at meetings on Wednesday night to continue with planned protests against retailers.

They aim to picket Wal-Mart (WMT.N) at the Florida seaside city of Boynton Beach on Dec. 13, retailers in New York on Dec. 15, and video chain Blockbuster Inc. (BBI.N) (VIAb.N)in Miami on Dec. 20. Cuban leaders have said they will join them.

Rockstar and its owners Take-Two Interactive Software Inc. (TTWO.O) apologized for unintentionally causing offense but said the phrases had been taken out of context, and would not encourage violence against ethnic groups.

Grand Theft Auto: Vice City simulates a ``glamorous, hedonistic metropolis of Vice City,'' a Miami-like seaside city teeming with Caribbean and Latin American immigrants.

In the game, an ex-convict has to recover stolen drug money and take on the Cuban and Haitian gangs that run the streets.

Anti-Defamation League national director Abraham Foxman praised the company for reacting so quickly and doing ``the responsible thing by showing sensitivity.''

Gepsie Metellus of the Haitian Neighborhood Center in Miami said she would not expect Take-Two to withdraw all copies of the game from the market place, ``But I'm certainly hoping they will also edit the lines with respect to other ethnic groups.''

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From New York Times' website.

Being an avid videogamer, I think this is a joke and these people are really dumb. Any comments?

okay . . .

Whine, Whine Whine.......SHUDUP

Yeah, it's not like they said Kill all the White People...

Gimme a break ! There are all kinds of "people" being offended in this game, so what, there are people offended daily for millions of reasons.

The game doesn't pretend to be PC, it's whole raison d'etre is to be an adult themed video game.

This kind of thing is more than acceptable in movies, so why not computer games?

--- G.

Exactly.
And why it has an 18+ age certificate for purchase.

Right. Adults have the right to "kill all the Haitians." Afterall, they are adults.

Its an adult video game... how dare they represent the real world.. how dare they not be PC.

Ya know.. i love howard stern, i love Grand theft auto, i love eminem and marilyn manson, i love the man show, know why? b/c they're not over sensitive little pricks and they say what they like regardless of what people's damned opiniions are..

the sticker on the game says MA for mature... if parents aren't paying attention to what their kids are doing/buying.. that's they're responsibility..

I don't condone racism, sexism or homophobia.. how many times have i caused a stink about it just on this board.

Being a bigot towards bigots and denying people a freedom to express themselves.. is still displaying the same fear, and does nothing but get people more pissed off at PC nazis.

As long as people continue to make little shit a big deal, instead of just not spending they're money on something they rather they're kids not have, see, hear, speak..the more you're just gonna fuel people putting shit out like this..

What good does banning something like this do? Nothing. It denies people a freedom of speech/expression, it pacifies you with a false sense of saftey and sugar coated reality. Whether its the Hitler wine, eminem saying he's going to kill the president, Lauren hill speaking out against the vatican, or this very video game, you either like it or don't, but quit raising a stink about it damn..

If a couple of teenagers can't learn to play a realistic offensive video game and get a laugh out of it together, how do you expect us to get along as a species? How many Hatian american kids do you think own this video game too? I promise you.. alot.

i'm sure rockstar loves it every time they piss off another group and get more free advertising

DigitalDuality said:

I don't condone racism, sexism or homophobia...

Click to expand...

Then why dance with it in a simulation? It isn't condoned, but our society is playing with it constantly in film and in video games. It becomes "comfortable" to interact with.

Where does it end? At what point does it over extend itself? How much do we want to simulate hell?

When the thrill is gone, and the last version of "carve up the raver chicks and make them bleed" is finally boring, what's next?

My personal take on it... Racism isn't going away in our lifetimes. Continually rallying against people's opinions doesn't accomplish shit except put them on the defensive and dually taking away they're right to expression or speech, regardless of how wrong it is.

Christians think homosexuality and abortion is offensive, people like you and me see this an equality issue, we see this as a moral issue concerning the fair treatment of women's choices and people who are in love..regardless of gender.. but its offensive, and in christian or neo-con faces everyday.

On the other side of the coin, people are bigots, or maybe --people such as myself-- enjoy stepping on toes of people who try to censor everything we think or say. There is a point where attempting to be PC grows to insanity, and frankly people are sick of it. People deserve the right to be bigoted in their opinions or expression as they see fit. If you ban bigotry today, then who's to say you can't utilize that same morality to ban homosexuality for good, make it a constitutional amendment about their marriages...teach and preach homophobia in sex ed classes, etc..


Do i wish a government or the job market or our legal system to condone such discrimination? NO.

People should be comfortable with a duality in this sense, If you don't like bigotry, quit being a bigot towards bigots, let them have their opinions, challenge them in discussion or debate. Bigotry is nothing more than a worldview or opinion...right? What's the difference between that ..and say.. a religion, a political affiliation, feminism, or special rights for the minority of your choice? Or affirmative action idealisms? You're discriminating on someone's world view. The KKK can't accept the plurality of ethnic backgrounds, the Rainbow coalition can't accept the plurality of a person's worldview for fear being labeled a bigot themselves.

Bigotry can only be conquered if people can be shown how ridiculous it is through our everyday actions, speech, ability to laugh..and not take everything oh so seriously. By attacking anything and everything they might take joy in, or laugh at, you're just insuring the bigotry stays. Let people live their lives in fucken peace...even if that means allowing them to play a violent video game.

As to shock value, it has no end, and it never will. Personally i like shock value, not in an over abundance "i'm desensitized to the world" type of way, Shock value makes alot of points about our society.. and it the work itself isn't making the point, the over sensitive reaction of the masses does. People need to quit being so uptight, its a game.. not reality. Its a song.. not reality, a movie.. not reality. Its entertainment, or its art, its the right to say what we want to say, how we want to say, and when we want to say it regardless of who disagrees with us. Shock value fights the battle of censorship for us. As long as their people like Marilyn Manson.. as long as there is movies like Fight Club..true censorship in america will never take hold in a F451 or 1984 type of way. The only way to ensure that censorship doesn't take over, is to quit pushing the envelope on it. B/c when it gets stagnant, when people no longer pay attention, get pissed off at it, .. its easy to make it all dissappear one bit at a time, and no one will really notice, and yeah it might not be oh so horrible if these video games, music, and movies dissapeared.. bigotry gets censored today.. marilyn manson/laurenhill/eminem gets censored tomorrow, Oscar Wilde gets pulled from student reading lists, then Edgar Allen Poe is deemed too morbid and depressing and banned from schools as well.. or even libraries.... then political opinion is censored.. and so on..

Slippery slope.

I can condone the right to be a bigot, and still not condone bigotry. Its not a hypocrisy, its called freedom..and my morality within that freedom.

About me dancing with it... I like jokes that make us laugh at our stereotypes (including a nice long list of white jokes, men jokes, homophobe jokes, christian, jew, black, mexican, you name it.), i love using racial slurs out of the modern racial context.
Franky i think the sting can be removed from words like "nig9er".. but that's a whole 'nother issue.. Words aren't inherently "bad".. they're just words, and lauging at all of our stereotypical differences..and the ability to laugh at yourself when you fit into them.. will do more to knock down the walls of bigotry than anything. But overall.. i just like pushing people who think they can control what i think and say. If its a christian thought cop.. i'll go on and on about the joys of homosexuality, abortion, and group sex. If its a PC nazi who thinks any thing that not only isn't PC, but fails to be PC "enough"....i have no problem making 10 tons of racial comments.. or playing on words with shit.

Black guy: "i don't think white people should be allowed to use the word nigga, nig9er, or any of its forms"
ME: "nigga please!"

if memory serves, the game also includes a mission where you must kill alot of french... has anyone pointed to this as discrimination?

^
it also has prostitution, explicit music, gun and hand to hand vilolence... umm .car theft..

Brian Oblivion said:

Then why dance with it in a simulation?

Click to expand...

Simulation isn't reality. Those who cannot distiguish the difference have severe intelligence/social problems.

If i got to go kill a bunch of drug peddling, child murdering Aussie's in that game I'd still be pissing my pants laughing.

Products for purchase with POTENTIALLY offensive material are rated and RESTRICTED to those who society deems fit to have a level of MATURITY to not take offence to the product or to not take it as reality and to go start shooting rockets into school buses.

That's true, the game is simply a simulation. But the "worldview" and the experience still exists within our brains.

You guys are talking about games, and being fed up with a collection of "do's" and "don't" which have been assembled since the civil rights movement. I'm talking a pathogenesis. A factor which our species is obsessed with.

There's nothing new here, and it isn't just limited to our present society or moral structure. "It" has been expressed in various ways throughout our history. The Colosseum, for example, is one way this has manifested itself where it becomes very real.

There are other ways that this pathogenesis expresses itself, and without separating the "experience" from the action in the "real world." We complain about the violence taking place in Iraq, but why do we turn around and entertain the same monster in play?

Step back for a minute. What is mankind's fascination with destroying others?

I don't play video games, so I can't give an informed opinion on GTA.

However, I am a graduate of a pre-law magnet program which happened to be in an inner-city high school in South Florida. Caucasians and Hispanics were the minority and most of us were bussed in from suburban schools to try and offset the racial balance, as is common in many major cities.

Approximately half of the 70% Black population at my school was of Haitian descent. The year before I started school there, there was a massive race riot between the African-Americans and the Haitians. The Haitians were stigmatized for being perceived as dirty, stupid and not speaking English.

On one hand, having lived in South Florida most of my life, I will say that this is a reflection of the culture there. Despite the substantial Haitian population- a substantial number of people think of Haitians as subhuman.

The interjection in Vice City of disparaging remarks regarding Haitians is in extremely poor taste. There is no way in hell I'd pay good money to play a game in which such ignorance and bigotry of a given culture is sanctioned.

I'd be right there picketing along with them if I still lived in Sofla.

Brian Oblivion said:

Step back for a minute. What is mankind's fascination with destroying others?

Click to expand...

That feeling of power and satisfaction of feeling 'big'???
I know that when i hunt rabbits and foxes on my friends properties i get a kind of primal 'rush' when I kill one...

The moaners are absolutely correct. I played GTA:VC for two hours before waking up and realising I'd slit the throats of the Cuban family next door. If I hadn't played that game it'd never have happened!

8(

I fucken hate PC losers. Im mean, i have no prejeduce's against anyone. But i don't pretend differences don't exist. And if the makers of a computer game observe Cuban and Haitian street gangs in a real city and decide to simulate it, fucken good on them. Fuck cencorship and fuck people pretending shit doesn't happen.

Where i used to live here in Melbourne was right near some commission flats that had a massieve gang of black people ( i dont know what decent) which often caused me trouble (ie; broke into my house, stole stuff, stabbed a mate, etc). Given the chance i would happily slit all their throats if their were no repercussions. But im not racist. But the fact was, they were a street gang and they were all black. I'd also happily make a computer game which depicted them as such. I don't see how showing the truth is any worse than any other shit that you see in computer games. But i dont hate black people. And i dont judge anyone on the actions of others. But i REALLY hate PC MotherF's who act like none of this shit goes on.

I understand how people can argue that portraying an ethnic community as such can further promote race hatred and fair enough MAYBE it could. But chances are it wouldn't change anyones opion on the ethnic community and especially not when all they are doing is imatating a real situation anyway. And MAYBE, those people involved in street gangs and such can see how fucken pathetic they are and can see how much they are damaging the image of their ethnicity and stop acting like such a bunch of fuckwits.

Makse me really laugh to, that most people i know that aren't PC and are down to earth and just tell it like it is, are far less racist then these fucken whitebread PC motherfuckers in White Suburban towns that blabber on about hwo fucken open-minded and non-prejudice they are and they are normally the most racist ones of the lot.

Im sure they'll be plenty of them that read this and think im racist or prejudice or whatever. LOL. FUCK YOU PC ASSHOLES