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Hamedo
16-11-2003, 02:47
Ok, my dd told me he had some new good 'base' in and it was very good. I have never tried/seen base before but was up to try it. I got 0.5g of it in a satty and it was sorta like a mix of a clear/foamy white liquidy substance, probably more like a gel (it was dark and couldnt really see it that good),. Now I was under the impression that base should be either brown/yellow in colour??

Anyways the night went on and me and my mate had this 'base' (we were told to just put a bit on our finger and put it on your tongue, when it was on the tongue it felt like it just spread everywhere in my mouth in like half a second, but the taste was really bad) and it was friggin awesome ... couldnt stop talking all night, so much energy, so awake it was unbelievable, better than any biccy I have ever had and I have had quite a few. The best thing about it was that you only needed to tiniest little bit and it kept you going for hours, i was still revving off my nut 12 hours later. The only side effects I had was a bit of dizzyness the next day and the inability to eat (which I assume happens with all amphetamine's?).

Ok, that was 2 weeks ago, now last week I got some more of this 'base', this time however it looked totally different. The satty looked a bit more full than last time, but the substance inside also looked different. This time the substance looked like little white crystals, really small ones (I did also notice that there looked like a few little water droplets that formed on the inside of the satty too) I was a bit worried by this so I asked him why it was different, he said it was the same as last time from same source however just a week older. So I tried some of it, it tasted the same as the first time however when I did put it on my tongue it didnt have the same "spreading" effect on my tongue like it did last time, all I really noticed was the really bad taste. It seemed to get me off like the first time however I did need to take a bit more of it (it could have also been the atmoshphere or a number of other things that needed me to take more I have no idea, it could also be me being paranoid).

Now what I want to know is it possible for a substance to change form in about a week (from a foamy/liquidy/gel to tiny crystals)?

Does it sound like he has cut it the second time round? (it didnt look like there was any glucose in the bag, but I know other things can be used)

From my research that I have done (which I am not very good at :p ) would I be correct in saying this is meth? because the effects it had on me sound very similar to what I have read.

If I was allowed I would tell you how much I paid for it as it may assist in helping you guys tell me what you think it is but I think that is against the guidlines, if anyone wants more info please pm me :)

pill_jockey
16-11-2003, 07:24
I'm guessing you don't buy speed that often. From my experience my Dealer gets different stuff every week sometimes it is white sometimes yellow, brown, red. It has been a solid block, liquid, crystally and everythign in between. All i can say is you bought speed and thats that. 8)

Hamedo
16-11-2003, 07:27
From the effects I got off it would you say it was amphetamine or methamphetamine?

pill_jockey
16-11-2003, 07:42
I woould say Methamphetamine you might want to check out this link My nanna can't tell an amphetamine from a methamphetamine! (http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=55873) it is very informative and well give you most of the answers you are looking for. Hope it helps

Trillian
16-11-2003, 08:35
From the effects you describe, it sounds like methylamphetamine (http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/meth/meth.shtml) both times.

The appearance of meth can be down to anything from the type of production process, the integrity or experience of the chemist, or simply the crap that's been cut into it somewhere along the line.

BTW, Runner, sorry to violate your intellectual property like this, but:


[Runner's] quick guide to detecting common cutting agents:

Glucose: the gear is sweet tasting of various degrees. Good meth is as far from sweet as as it could be. It is probably the most bitter thing I have ever tasted. When smoked, you can taste burned sugar.

MSM: This is very slightly bitter tasting stuff. It can be in a form of tiny crystals straight out of a jar that can be mixed with gluggy speed variety to make it actually look even better. When melted and recrystalised, it forms crystals almost identical to meth rocks. This stuff will burn aboslutelly clear unlike most meth. Try tasting it. Wipe possible meth powder of a crystal and put on your tongue. If it makes a somewhat cold sensation, its MSM. It should hardly be bitter. When MSM is melted together with meth at around 175C (meth melts at 175C and MSM at 115 or both around those figures)and then recrystalised, it will form whats known as frosty rocks. This will be non transparent off-white rocks with majority of MSM on the outside.
When MSM is smoked, you will hardly breathe out any smoke. When meth is pulled hard, you'll feel like a fire dragon. Raaa.

Niacinamide (Vitamin B3): This is rare but the properties resemble that of MSM. Its melting point is however somewhere around 50C, so if you have some gear and its solid, and after carrying it in a pocket for a while it becomes gluggy, this could be the culprit.

Epsom Salts: This is Magnesium Sulphate used as a laxative. It has an appearance of small transparent perfect rectangles when hydrated - which is the form it comes in when bought. It can be fried in an oven for an hour to de-hydrate it and form white powder. The hydrate form is usually used to cut gear because many mistake the perfect rectangles for metn crystals. It has a mild bitter taste. Epy salts will not burn in a pipe but the hydrated form will crackle leaving a chalky residue in the pipe - that's the dehydrated form. When injected, epy salts will give one a pleasant rush as described above. [Edit in light of a new idea] Minerals play a great role in our bodies. A sudden hit of magnesium may throw off the natural balance inside the body and cause unpredictable consequences (bum rush being the only noticable one More evidence on this is needed but the warning is there. See Biscuits post below for more on this.

Rock Salt: This is used sometimes to cut meth rocks. Rock salt closelly resembles meth rocks. It is obviously salty and will crackle in the pipe as it dehydrates.

Ephedrine/Dexies/Any other pills out of the cubboard: Some idiots use these to cut speed. These will not smoke up properly and will present problems when injected which is one of the reasons why injecting street speed is highly discouraged by me.

Any other chemical that a dealer has excess to can be used to cut gear. This ranges from Ajax to cockroach spray. This is not because the dealer wants to kill his clients, but because the dealer genuinly believes that the chemical won't do that much damage. Sorry dfi, you line of reasoning is flawed.

The safest way to consume speed is to eat it, because this way the stomach is given a chance to take care of some of the nasties. If you are certain your meth is pretty clean of really dodgy stuff, by all means snort or smoke. I personally discourage injecting street speed altogether, because even if it appears to be clean, certain impurities can prove to be in the worst case scenario deadly.

I am yet to encounter speed cut with glass powder. I have only heard rumours along the lines of light bulbs being crushed to cut speed. These are ONLY rumours, but nonetheless, be VERY careful.

pilfered from this thread (http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=99409)
(Thanks Runner :) )

Hamedo
16-11-2003, 08:47
The safest way to consume speed is to eat it, because this way the stomach is given a chance to take care of some of the nasties. If you are certain your meth is pretty clean of really dodgy stuff, by all means snort or smoke.

One thing I did notice, is that I had a sore stomach all night and way into the next day that I was always complaining to my friends about, it felt like I was going to spew (but I didnt).

So by the sounds of it, it has been cut the second time with something, as I didnt have the same sore gut the first time? Would I be correct in saying that?

At the end of the day I was still happy that it gave me the 'buzz' I was hoping for :)

SteveElektro
16-11-2003, 09:01
Meth always gives me a seedy stomach when taken orally. Just one of the reasons I don't eat it.

MOTOMAN
17-11-2003, 11:07
Sounds a bit weird to me. The spreading in your mouth (as you say) effect would normally be from what it has been cut with I would think. Normally glucose kinda has that feeling in your mouth, a cold melting sensation?

Look dealers could do anything. He may have mixed it with something the first week and not the next, or the other way around. I would just give a few questions on why it's like that and then judge for yourself. Best is to try to always get it in rock for that way you know it's as pure as it can get. Anything mixed I am always suss on.

TrickmA
17-11-2003, 13:47
You bought speed in its base form.. it can vary in appearance

Runner
19-11-2003, 07:09
Many dealers will try to sell poorly manufactured speed that can't even crystalise, as base. Without going into the chemistry side of things (i'll leave this for phase_dancer :), base is technically a purer form of "speed". ie. a gram of pure base has about 20% more methamphetamine molecules than a gram of speed everyone is used to. Base is an oil so it is easy to confuse it with just really oily pasty speed. The only way would be to dissolve in water. Base will NOT dissolve. Do this next time you are about to consume your gear. Put it in a glass of water, observe, then drink either way.

Also, note that you can't inject base as it is not water soluable.

Hamedo
19-11-2003, 07:16
Would it be possible to smoke 'base' through a glass pipe?

BigTrancer
19-11-2003, 07:43
Yes, but if there's much cutting agent in there it will make an unpleasant smoke. Try heating some on a piece of foil or glass first to see if it leaves heaps of black residue.

BigTrancer :)

Dancing_Princess
19-11-2003, 07:45
Put it this way sweet, put some in your pipe, and light it, if it lights black, forget it, the shit has been cut and you can't smoke it, if it is meth, it should burn clear as cystal!!!!

Runner
19-11-2003, 07:57
Yep, you sure could, but its a lot harsher - I wouldn't do it if unsure you have base because smoking dodgy speed can be very harmful. eg. Phosphorus acid which can be used in the manufacture decomposes at 180C and releases a gas called phosphine, a puff of which is fatal. Imagine if your speed had a little of that on it and you smoked it up? Only smoke white clear/opaque odourless crystal rocks obtained from a reliable source.

MOTOMAN
19-11-2003, 09:53
I would say to never smoke anything that's not in crystal form.

Biscuit
20-11-2003, 06:45
Remember unless the dealer is the manufacturer or is literally in bed with him or her its unlikely you will ever have seen "base" as in FREEBASE.

The term "base" derived from that beigy, waxy paste that is the product of the more common synthesis and is left unchanged --> its the "base" product or first product if you like - it could then be recrystallised and dried for a purer product (very unlikely) or cut down with whatever to produce a whiter, powdered street "speed".

Freebase is a very different thing - as Runner said it is a water insoluble oil, the potency of which is so potent 1ml of it is just over 1 GRAM of methamphetamine powder. The purity of the actual oil is anyone's guess but it would be above 50% from the RP/I method unless it has been poorly produced. If the oil was distilled first, which is what should happen but very rarely except for batches of very pure crystal methamphetamine/"ice", it would be closer to 90-100% pure. Mere drops of this would have you flying into the middle of next week.

The oil is what is produced first - it is not as stable as the crystal (hydrochloride salt) form and thus is unlikely to be moved about for distribution. If someone has gone to the trouble to make methamphetamine, then they would be able, and imo would, convert their oil into the salt as soon as is practicable after the production. It is easier to handle, divide and far far less dense. We all know how big 1 gram of powder is - 1 millilitre of liquid is tiny - you can see the logistics of dealing with something on that scale.

Water insoluble solvents such as toluene or ether would dissolve those little plastic baggies very quickly. You always read not to use condoms with anything other than water based lubrication - that is why. I am not sure of the dissolving capacities of methamphetamine freebase, but it would not suprise me if it made some effort at eating through that baggie.
Another reason for me why this was very unlikely to be freebase.

Solvents and moisture left behind during recrystallisation could essentially make a product become a gluggy, clear mess.

Many people discuss the red phosphorus/iodine method - this is clearly the cause of more yellow/reddish/brown products which may be referred to as "base".
But there is another method - one involving chemicals that are arguably easier to procure, that is done in no more than an HOUR reaction time and will produce a product 80% pure if done properly. ADDITIONALLY even an impure product is white because unlike the RP/I method all the reagents are white or clear and i doubt any impurities produced would exhibit any wild colours.

I have seen very sticky, gluggy but WHITE products before - these well could fit the descriptor of "base" and they are just as good - they too are the methamphetamine salt, not the freebase and have a characteristic smell - very ammonia like which is not suprising since ammonia is crucial to the reaction.

It could be that you got methamphetamine produced this way - which was not effectively crystallised and very potent. As i said the purity is greater on average from this reaction than RP/I so pound for pound "base" from this method is stronger than "base" derived from RP/I - which is surely that which produces the beige/brown/yellow ones.

Remember it is in a dealer's interest to have wetter, more gluggy products. One only has to see what happens when these are left out on a plate over night to dry. A lot of weight that you paid for is LOST because it was never methamphetamine. That is the price you pay for demanding "base" rather than a cut down product that is dry.


As a side bar: methamphetamine out on the street is anything from 5% to 80%. Clearly the lower amounts are due to cutting by street dealers. Only crystal meth or "ice" is above 80. Very large amounts have been seized (thus unlikely to have been significantly cut - maybe up to 20% by the manufacturer) and they hover around 30-60%. Which means the other chemicals making up that product is anyone's guess.

Biscuit
20-11-2003, 06:49
Many dealers will try to sell poorly manufactured speed that can't even crystalise, as base

Actually that is possibility - but certainly any freebase worth its weight is going to be able to be crystallised.
As the freebase-->salt conversion process would assist in removing many impurities from the reaction i would be EXTREMELY wary of ingesting poorly produced, unable to be turned into a salt, "freebase".

God knows whats in it.

Hamedo
20-11-2003, 13:55
So in english (sorry Biscuit I aint as technically minded as you :p ) what your saying is the stuff I got sounds like base?

I read your long post biscuit but could only decipher about 1/4 of it, lol

Runner
21-11-2003, 02:11
hehe, what Biscuit was saying is that you had gluggy poorly produced speed but perhaps with little cut in it and hence the strength. In street terminology it might be called "base" as it may come straight or close to the cook. You didn't however have the real FREEBASE which I believe where the street term "base" came from initially.

[Edit]
Hint: if you ever get your hands on some potent gluggy speed, just call it "base" - it sounds better and your mates will love you for it :)

killarava2day
21-11-2003, 02:21
I know this stuff, yeah its meth, it is almost like some of the "ice" that was getting around for awhile but hasn't been dried properly and the crystals haven't formed as successfully. If you get it unadulterated it smokes up fine, in fact I found it got me higher than the "ice" did, more euphoric.

Hamedo
21-11-2003, 03:33
I found I was very euphoric on this stuff even though I only swallowed it.

killarava2day
22-11-2003, 04:04
Yeah I found it extremely euphoric, and for much longer than the previous stuff I tried.

Biscuit
22-11-2003, 07:54
Sorry, i sort of lanuched into the topic without really ever answering the question.

In truth i cannot know what you had - if i had a sample of it i could certainly do some tests on it to determine if it was truly FREEBASE. (the oil form of methamphetamine, amphetamine or MDMA before it is converted into a water soluble salt that 99% of people would be consuming.)


What you had was not necessarily an impure product. It may have not been crystallised and dried properly - but doesnt mean it was poorly synthesised, rather just poorly crystallised.
What i did say was that gluggy, white product COULD be the product of a higher yielding synthesis that would NOT produce a beige/brown product like the other more common synthesis produces - and is so often seen in other samples also described as "base" - or beige waxy rock. See thread recently.

What i also said is that i very much doubt you had ACTUAL FREEBASE - for the reasons already stated.
"Base" is a street term and has to be given the sort of credence street terms deserve. Chemically it is likely that both products on each occasion were the same chemical, just in differing forms.

Anything that is dense - e.g. the FREEBASE oil (the densest) to very gluggy poor dried SALTS, is easy to consume a lot of at once. Less dense powder is harder to consume a lot of at once.


Ok, that was 2 weeks ago, now last week I got some more of this 'base', this time however it looked totally different. The satty looked a bit more full than last time, but the substance inside also looked different

So on the first occasion the "little" bit that you had on your finger may have contained, by mass, quite a bit more than you would have thought. The reason it was more full the second time is because there was more crystallisation dropping the density and upping the volume for the same MASS of product you were paying for. U may find that the second stuff is actually PURER because moisture and other liquid impurities has decreased. Its just that the first occasion you really did have an overly decent hit.


On euphoria - some people have stated that orally ingested methamphetamine has a more euphoric effect. I have no opinion on that but clearly 20-30mg of very high quality meth down the hatch will produce a long-lasting very enjoyable high.

Hamedo
22-11-2003, 13:00
You seem to know your stuff Biscuit :)

Thanks heaps for clearing that up dude.

BigTrancer
22-11-2003, 22:25
"seem"... Heh.