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News: South Aus, PMA Warning

phase_dancer

Bluelight Crew
Joined
Mar 12, 2001
Messages
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I heard on JJJ yesterday that SA police had announced a quantity of PMA has been seized in recent drug raids [labs?]. They said they hadn't seen it on the street yet, but obviously felt warnings should be issued.


On doing a search of AUS/ SA news this is all I came across:

Hospital drug alert

03oct03
HOSPITAL emergency departments have been placed on high alert after police warnings of a resurgence of a potentially fatal drug on Adelaide streets.

Yesterday's warning follows two seizures by Drug and Organised Crime detectives of paramethoxyamphetamine (PMA), also known as `death', `Dr death' or `blue caps', in separate raids in June and August.

Police believe the second seizure indicates the drug is again being manufactured and distributed in Adelaide.

From: The Advertiser

I'm rather amazed how such an important police statement is virtually ignored by mainstream media. Perhaps more will come out over the next few days.

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anyway to the sense of SA police for releasing this ahead of time.
 
Thanks for the warning! Thats valuable information! .... Remember TEST TEST TEST! ... Cheers!
 
phase_dancer said:
I'm rather amazed how such an important police statement is virtually ignored by mainstream media. .


it was on chn9 news last night in adelaide, but it was easy to miss
 
There was a tiny paragraph on this in MX (Melbourne's free newspaper) today. It said:

South Australia

Dr Death Drug Bust

Police suspect a designer drug is being made in Adelaide after seizing 500g of the substance known as Dr Death.

The drud, paramethoxymethamphetamine, was being sold to users who believed thet were buying the moer common drug ecstasy, police said.

Police seized 500g of PMA, and chemicals used to make the tablets, yesterday.

Royal Adelaide Hospital exert Dr David Caldicott siad PMA was extremely dangerous when taken in large amounts.

I'm gald it was mentioned, but it as very low key, and could have been easily overlooked. It's interesting to hear that PMA is being made here though...
 
I'd suggest the vast majority of PMA is made here.

For two reasons:

As discussed many times PMA or PMMA can be made exactly the same way as MDA or MDMA except all that is changed is the main precursor chemical you begin with. Its just so happens that PMAs chemical is far easier to obtain than that for the MDXX drugs. Not only is it in Australia in large quantities, it has more uses than safrole/sassfras (for MDXX) and possessing it is of course far less suspicious.


The other reason is it is pointless in importing PMA. If you are going to go to the trouble of importing something, you are going to import what the market actually wants - MDXX or more specifically MDMA.

There is the possibility that some imported MDMA pills do contain some added PMA - but they would be extremely rare - and thank God that is the case.
 
Just remember, it's all good to test, but if they come up bunk don't take the chance on eating it, not worth it, even if you paid money for it. Throw it out or get your money back and tell the dealer to get his shit together.
 
Yes Biscuit I agree most if not all PMA would be made in Australia.

While in the Uni lab last month I spotted both the aldehyde and the propylene benzene just sitting around. Anybody could have snapped them up and because they are not regarded as highly suspicious chemicals, the substance/s would probably just be replaced with no questions asked.

If someone has the starting material for PMA (the propylene benzene) all the other chems are available over the counter. The same applies for MDA & MDMA, but as Biscuit mentioned, this starting material is not as easy to obtain (although I discovered an Aus distributor who sells 25kg lots, no questions asked - or so they say ;))


The biggest problem is still distinguishing between a mixture MDA and PMA, which is impossible with kits currently available. The best you can do is to get an EZ X-treme kit. A mixture of MDMA and PMA should be identifiable using marquis followed by primary and secondary amine tests. But has anyone ever seen a distinctive colour change with Robadope? I've often wondered if it's worth suggesting another primary amine test. Most tests I can think of, at the very least require heat or other awkward procedures. But someone may consider it worthwhile if PMA be the thing in question.

A final word on why PMA is intentionally made. While there have been those who in the past praised PMA as a drug [R.I.P. Ianhard] the main reason it is made is the cost of the starting material. It is as cheap as chips , which means big profits at the end. In contrast the usual starting material for MDMA sells for $1-2K on the black market. So, while availability is undoubtedly part of the reason people set out to intentionally produce PMA, the principle reason lying behind such a decision is money. I don't believe that someone with enough intent wouldn't be able to find a black market source of the MDMA material. It's everywhere and ears are to the ground for anyone interested in purchasing. From a discovery in the lab I'm pretty sure I've worked out how the MDXX raw material is being diverted to the black market without any unexplained loss of product or sus records.

So, IMO the bottom line is that PMA producers are without conscience, yet fully understand the implications of making a potentially lethal drug.

Just another example where The $Dollar$ KILLS
 
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phase_dancer said:

The biggest problem is still distinguishing between a mixture MDA and PMA, which is impossible with kits currently available. The best you can do is to get an EZ X-treme kit. A mixture of MDMA and PMA should be identifiable using marquis followed by primary and secondary amine tests.
An MDMA/PMA mix cannot be differentiatied from an MDMA/MDA mix though.
I'm sure anyone who got a purple on marquis and a positive for both primary and secondary amine tests would presume it was an MDMA/MDA combo, especially considering they are far more common than MDMA/PMA combo pills.
Imagine we all threw out those great white hearts because we thought they may have had MDMA/PMA in them rather than MDMA/MDA....
 
Imagine we all threw out those great white hearts because we thought they may have had MDMA/PMA in them rather than MDMA/MDA....

...and therein lies the concern.
 
On the EZ-test site it says that the Mandelin can detect PMA. (It doesn't show what colour it goes when it does though, weird..)
http://www.eztest.com/en/mandelin.htm

I am led to believe that Marquis is a mixture of chemicals, the chem that reacts goes purple when it reacts with a methylenedioxy functional group is not the chem that turns orange when it reacts to amphetamines. They just chuck both in the same bottle because it's more practical than selling them separately.
If this is right, then is it possible that Mandelin has a specific ingredient to detect paramethoxy groups, and that we could perhaps urge them to market it on its own?
 
Unfortunately the kits aren't that sophisticated. Basically, its the sulphuric acid (H2SO4) in Marquis and Mandelin that initiates the reactions. It's important to remember that even reactions of pure substances with these reagents will more often than not result in several compounds being formed, some of which may be coloured and some of which may not.

Marquis also has formaldehyde & methanol, the later added to slow down polymerisation of the formaldehyde.

Mandelin is a mixture of ammonium vanadate & H2SO4.

The reactions of Marquis involve the formation of Ar-CH2-Ar bonds or Ar-CH2-O-CH2-Ar (ref: 2001, Bee Osmium, Ar = aromatic ring). Concentrated Sulphuric acid will cause breakage of the methylenedioxy ring and I would think, most ring substituted methoxy groups and some aromatic rings as well, with the result being a mixture of further (still) reacting compounds, some of which undoubtedly contain sulphur. These sulphur containing compounds are likely to form the colours. Formaldehyde is quite a reactive substance, especially when in an acid catalysed environment and so would extend the number of expected reaction products. The amine of the molecule plays some part, as although not easily distinguishable, MDA, MDMA & MDEA, all produce subtle variations in the reaction colours/ time.


Mandelin is a bit different although most initial reactions are likely to be the same as with Marquis. As mentioned, Mandelin also contains a Vanadium compound. Vanadium forms what's known as complexes where bonds between Vanadium and other groups (e.g. amines, cyanide, broken -O-CH2-O- or CH3-O bonds, aromatic ring etc) can produce bright colours. The bonds formed are quite a bit more complex (pardon the pun) than normal covalent or ionic bonds, and in many ways are similar to the way drugs bind with receptors using orbital overlaps influenced by subtle Van der Waals forces. Drugs as well as groups attached in some metal complexes are termed Ligands. Molecular orbital theory gives an insight into this marvellous world.

Although these mechanisms are likely to play some role - at least in the initial reactions - it is possible that Marquis doesn't show colour with PMA because the para methoxy group of PMA doesn't react with sulphuric acid. It would tend to explain the absence of colour with Marquis. However, even if this is so with Maquis, the H2SO4 in the Mandelin would definitely play a part in the PMA-Mandelin reactions.

What I'm interested in knowing is whether pure PMA, like pure MDA will cause a violent reaction with Marquis. I know there's no colour, but is there any noticeable reaction?


The number of possible compounds formed by reaction with Mandelin is considerable. As many metal complexes have distinctive colours, it's understandable that Mandelin should test for a diverse range of compounds, producing distinctive reactions and colours for many amines and ring substituted variations. Isolating and analyzing these compounds would be tricky as several would be formed with any one substance, so attempting to isolate and work backwards from a single PMA-Vanadate compound would be pointless, even if attainable. However, there are things which can promote formation of certain complexes, so it's possible mandelin could be improved.




The problem with any of these tests is that they are not specific enough, nor can they account for the endless possible combinations of both active and non-active things which may also react. Combinations of things - as we know - can fool the test or mask another reaction colour. This is of course what happens when a mixture of PMA and MDXX are tested with Mandelin. PMA on it's own would show a distinctive colour change, but the darker colours from the MDXX reaction conceal the lighter colours of the PMA reaction.

It would be fantastic to have a methoxy only reagent test. One that would not react with anything else, particularly the methylenedioxy group. There are several compounds I'm aware of that are specific to methylenedioxy groups. i.e. methoxy won't cause a colour change. But that doesn't help things much. Trouble is, the methoxy group is more stable than the methylendioxy group, and both are similar structurally and reaction-wise.

I've spent countless hours pursuing this goal. I have some interesting leads and possibilities, but they will have to wait until I finish another part of my project and see whether the department is fed up with me or not. Smooth sailing will hopefully see me being able to test a few of these reagents I have in mind.

Another area I hope to pursue further (money being the limiting factor at present) is that of UV fluorescence. Small detectors are becoming attractively priced, but separation of compound is usually first required. Methoxy and methylenedioxy groups are easily distinguished between in this spectrum. However, it may be possible to distinguish the presence of a methoxy group in a mixture. To be sure of results, this of course needs to be researched thoroughly, using various ratios of PMA and say MDA, as well as different excipient and binder mixes. It should work, and there's always the possibility of making derivatives if it doesn't. Derivatives can often produce a very distinctive emission spectra.

Yet another approach which looks promising (if you can afford to do the research) is immunolabeling. I've spent hours scanning databases looking for the right antibodies. I believe this can be done, although many of the most suitable antibodies must be stored at -20 degC and so don't lend themselves to the flexibility required for a user based test. However, many companies offer to produce specific antibodies to order.

IMO, the most ideal test may be antibody based (employing Europium as a long decay fluorescence element) used with a simple fluorescence detector. Specific antibodies would be used against a range of substances, enabling a quantitative accuracy far greater than what's required.
 
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Thanks for the reply, the stuff about complexes strikes me as interesting, unfortunately my year 12 chem education means I'm completely lost on the subject. Good luck on your efforts to find a solution though, maybe one day we'll have won the war against the war on drugs(tm) and such efforts will not have to be made to achieve an end that could be so easily obtained were society to get the proverbial carrot out of it's arse.
 
As this happened some time ago, I realised there are probably quite a few BL'ers who are unaware that PMA took one of our own in Adelaide in 2001.

RIP Ian Hard

Adelaide PMA death
 
a bit off track but phase_dancer im just interested in some of your findings
i was just wondering what u study and how long you have been at it cheers
 
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