zyprexa + dissociatives question

[karrotx]

I've been prescribed 5mg zyprexa for about a year now and have recently started experimenting with dissociatives like 2f-dck and Dck. I have done some reading on how zyprexa impacts the brain and what receptors it interacts with. The main one I feel I must mention is 5ht2. My question is by taking zyprexa will it impact these substances? I've been reading about other people's experiences on 2f and Dck and it's nothing like what I'm experiencing at similar doses. Tbh I don't really feel much from 2f doses of about 150mg. Would it improve the quality of my experiences if I were to quit taking the zyprexa? Seeing as how it's an anti psychotic? Ive looked up the half life of zyprexa and it's 21-54 hours. So I would be interested to find out if even skipping a single dose or taking half(2.5mg) of zyprexa would help?

 

[dopamimetic]

Are you sure your 2f-dck is of good quality? In my experience, it was at least 2-4x the potency of ketamine and thus 150mg is a really huge dosage of which you absolutely should feel dissociation even while on an antipsychotic.

While I have had the theory that dissociative hallucinations and "psychedelic experiences" (!= psychotomimesis) arise from endogenous activation of 5-ht2a, as SSRIs abolish these effects as they inhibit tripping off e.g. mushrooms, it is interesting if antipsychotics do inhibit dissociation, Would support the theory of NMDAR hypofunction in psychosis (and indicate that your dosage is a bit higher than required??). Almost all (pleasurable) dissociatives are also dopaminergics but I don't think that is a necessary component for inducing dissociation?

 

[karrotx]

I was beginning to question the quality of my 2fdck myself because I saw some posts on Reddit yesterday of people saying that they too were experiencing lackluster experiences. Also that there was apparently a distributor selling to vendors that had bad product/ low quality product, and then they just up and left the scene altogether. so there is that possibility that I received some of that.

It's interesting that you mention SSRIs because I was also considering them as the culprit. I currently take mirtazepine and straterra daily. I see now that the anti depressants are at fault and not the zyprexa.

I did some experimenting last night with another 150mg and to my surprise it was quite profound, but nothing like what other people had described. I chose to go a different ROA, via IM. It proved to be quite potent, so I don't think it's the quality of my product in question

Thank you for the info! I really appreciate it

 

[dopamimetic]

Just note that the SSRIs (can only speak for venlafaxine, but 150mg of that completely fuck the ability to trip) don't interfere with dissociation and thus potency of dissos as well as the euphoria. I was on venla all the time when I used dissociatives and I would feel like 10mg of 2f or dck, yet I never ever got anything near the bright colourful visuals many report...
Guess strong SSRI plus antipsychotic will make the experience less profound and euphoric but I don't see how it would stop dissociation like the racetams do. It's different pathways.

Strattera shouldnt really interfere and mirtazapine isnt a true SSRI but a 5ht2a antagonist which is the relevant receptor here..

 

[karrotx]

Thats what I had been missing from my 2f experiences, the euphoria and colorful visuals. I can say after last night I did experience disassociation, but it was much different then what I had been expecting from something like say DXM. I've not used many disassociatives in general, just dxm and 2f so I think I was using dxm disassociation as a baseline for what I might expect from 2f. That is the error of my thinking because they are completely different substances. The only thing they have in common is their ability to induce disassociation. I need to adopt a new line of thinking that involves acknowledgement of the premise that 2f is not the same as dxm and that it has its own set of effects on the body

I've been on these anti depressants for at least 4 years and will admit they have helped me, but I think I'd like to see if I can live life without them. I plan to titrate off of them slowly. I have already been working on the mirtazepine and have reduced my daily dose by 15mg. Currently taking 45mg. Last night I also decided to reduce my zyprexa dose by half, from 5mg to 2.5mg and to my surprise there was no sleep disturbances. I think I will continue with the 2.5mg for a week and then either go off it entirely or split the 2.5mg in half for 1.25mg. i was also thinking of staying on the 2.5mg for a little bit and titrate the mirtazepine down another 15mg as I take them both in the evening and do not want any sleep disturbances

The 5HT2a seems to be the target for a lot of substances when it comes to serotonin induced pleasure/euphoria. My curiosity is one of the primary driving forces in all of this and cant help but wonder what I could experience if I didn't have that 5Ht2a antagonism. That goes for other thinngs besides disassociatives, like lysergamides etc

 

[dopamimetic]

Yeah, DXM is somewhat unique among the dissociatives and affects many different neurotransmitter systems (they all do, but DXM is maybe the most dirty one). I agree with you that its dissociation feels different from that of the arylcyclohexylamines, they share some beckground signature though, if you've done different ones you'll recognize it.

5HT2a is imho responsible for the visuals but the euphoria from dissociatives appears to be more of dopaminergic origin, and this the olanzapine will block. For serotonergic psychedelics it's the primary target, yes.
45mg mirtazapine is still a high dosage, 30mg is regular. If you get sleep problems from reducing it (which might well be), I'd recommend trying OTC drowsy antihistamines like doxylamine or diphenhydramine, they are mostly devoid of antidopaminergic-/antiserotonergic activity.

The 2F-/DCKs were very euphoric and "fluffy"/cuddly even when used along venlafaxine.

 

[karrotx]

Thats good to know about zyprexa. Gives me that much more reason to get off it. After a few days of taking the reduced amount of zyprexa I think I'll lower my mirtazepine dosage down to 30mg. That's one good thing to come of the quarantine shit. Time off work to get some of these meds outta my system and not have to worry about sleep routines getting disturbed.

Thank you for all the feedback! I really appreciate it

 

[d1nach]

Slow down there! Are you like me and possibly need the meds? For example im a high risk of suicide off meds. If its not you my bad. Just checking in. It be horrible to end up in the hospital when all this is going on. And im not sure about finding a doctor. It could be easy idk. But since mine will only call in things. I am guessing pretty hard and if you mess with the meds your current doctor might not want to. Again just a heads up.

 

[karrotx]

I appreciate your concern, I really do. That's why I'm taking things slowly when titrating down my doses. If I start to feel that there is too much negativity. I will take a few steps back and reassess the whole situation. For instance do the benefits outweigh the negatives? Am I making a mistake? Get other people's outside opinions as well. etc

 

[dopamimetic]

Did you have true psychosis (favorably not drug induced, these tend to respond poorly to antipsychotics and usually are transient. Olanzapine helps to relax but more as an acute aid, no daily regimen.. ) with auditory hallucinations, fixed beliefs or stuff alike? If no, tapering off the antipsych will be fine. Mirtazapine afaik has less prevalence of discontinuation syndrome than e.g. the SNRIs.

Caution is always good of course and guess you got the point