Xanax vs. Valium Halflife?? lemme explain

[ThatOneDude!]

I used to take xanax, and i could take one football, first time use, awesome. yah we all get that.

I was prescribed bars, and i would take one bar, and feel awesome loosy goosy feelings. I understand how tolerance works.
next day I take another bar, similar feelings, slightly less. so more insentive to take maybe bar and half, why not 2 bars..... Whew what a good time.

Now i'm aware Xanax has very short half life compared to the very long half life of Valium.

Same experience, first few times doing valium. I'd take just a 5 first time in many months, nice subtle very relaxing, i can notice muscle relaxant properties.

months later, i got a hold of say 3 valium 10mgs and took one, very nice loosy goosy feeling, i like that kinda euphoria. expecially being relaxed like that. I think few days later i'd take another one and about same effects, maybe slightly less with tolerance.

Now i am prescribed 10mg twice a day of valium. first time i took only 5, felt good, few days later i took like 10 or 15 cant remember, i could feel it nicely. anyways fast forward a bit, Last night i took 40mgs all at once to get subtle but very noticable benzo effects. i like the relaxing properties that valium has over xanax, even tho xanax seems to have more of a punch to it.
Now i'm aware if took 10mgs of valium every day due to its half life, that it will build up in my system substantially over the week.
SO: my Question!
Is that build up of valium metabolite going to directly effect the main subjective/recreational (4-6hour duration) effects? Because to me, it seems like valium tolerance builds up like 20x faster than xanax tolerance. However i chalk it all up to hard to notice the [main 4-6 hour effects] if i have a build up of say 60-80mgs of diazepam metabolites in me due to insane half life.

Does that make sense what i'm asking? Basically Xanax has short half life, maybe thats why the main effects were easier to acquire in the consecutive days (disregarding tolerance). Where as Valiums half life is tremendous, when i do it the following day, i still have lots in my system, does taht effective the main 4-6 hour duration post consumption?

Is the Half life directly affecting subjective effects i would consider recreational? ....and confusing me with diazepam tolerance?

 

[ThatOneDude!]

Just an update, I had taken only aprox almost 2 hours ago 35mgs (which according to most people, is a lot. where my tolerance is in confusion with if half life has any noticeable effects, i dont know) then just took an additonal 25mgs right now, so I imagine i am at total of 60mgs to notice subjective effects, i will report back, I do feel relaxed, and I think definitely at a state of no anxiety, as well as no of this weird spinning hyperness / restlessness that i get sometimes, that feels different than anxiety. I sincerely look forward to that nice loosy goosy benzo euphoria, or that pronounced muscle relaxation that valium tends to provide.

I know that from what various websites of stated, the time for onset of action seems to be the same between the vals and the xanex, seems some sites suggest valium kicks in faster, which suggests to me a rush type effect? I understand how tolerance with all substances work, and if the long half life with valium is creating a buffer on the subjective/noticeable effects, during that short 4-6 hour period, I would greatly appreciate clarification on such, what i know is the withdrawals form valium are not as bad from the long half life, I just dont want to accelerate my tolerance to insanely unrealistic levels.

Obviously!... This is abuse! If i get a descent effect form the 60mgs today, thats probably comparable to the 40mg effects last night, WHERE the build up of active metabolite is in me i have no clue. But this as anyone can see is a very UNSAFE way to take valium. I have plans with kratom and phenibut to aid in any possible withdrawal effects, as i think i am lucky this is one of the benefits of long half life anyways. I just wish some wisdom and knowledge about benzos could be given to me so i know how to best get the noticeable effects that something like valium would give, without chasing a tolerance to ungodly levels.

Despite my recreational endeavors, any "harm reduction" advice to guide me would be GREATLY APPRECAITED!!! I have been taken to the ER from grand maul seizure based xanax withdrawals and have much more respect for benzos. I know of the imperative nature of being careful. I just want to enjoy valium without chasing a tolerance to unhealthy levels with side effects and withdrawals.

 

[sekio]

The long half life of diazepam is actually unrelated to the duration of effects; from what I recall diazepam is so incredibly fat soluble that it doesn't really stay in blood for very long, making the peak effects when taken e.g. orally only something like 4-6 hours - after that the diazepam migrates to fat cells and stays there until it is slowly released/metabolized (sort of like THC). So the occasional dose of Valium will only last a couple hours but chronic usage will eventually result in it building up so that you have benzos in your system 24/7.

Any benzo taken regularly will build tolerance though, especially if you are pushing the does higher looking for euphoria. Xanax can produce dependency just as easily as diazepam can, you just have to take it frequently enough. I think the thing with alprazolam is it is metabolized/eliminated much more quickly than diazepam is so it is shorter-lasting, and it is higher efficacy as a benzodiazepine so it is more potent per mg. It would actually be worse for tolerance development than diazepam would be.

If you want to get the best effects out of your benzos you should restrict their use to real emergencies only, if possible, and don't make them a daily thing. Regular usage is going to produce tolerance and tachyphylaxis (need more drug to produce the same effects) no matter which benzo you take. And don't ever take more than the minimum dose that resolves your symptoms - if you can survive on 10mg of valium then take that instead of taking a dose that will make you feel wobbly.

Be careful, diazepam abuse can lead to some nasty places. People do find it a fun drug but if you get carried away you will regret it for years. BZD misuse can turn a mild anxiety disorder into a real problem (agoraphobia and shit)

 

[elvis_wears_nikes]

I have struggled with problems to benzo's for a while. I think what has been particular dangerous for me is the amnesia and short-term memory loss as I often used to keep redosing and forgetting how much I have already done. This would be more of an issue with particularly potent benzodiazepine with shorter half-lives such as alprazolam (Xanax) and lorazepam (Ativan) so if you find that is a problem too then, in terms of harm reduction, it might be wise not to buy too many at a time. The forgetfulness and clumsiness could be dangerous sometimes such as leaving the gas turned on or falling asleep with a lit cigarette.

Also Xanax used to make me particularly aggressive so I had to really battle myself to try and stop because that was a horrible trait that I did not want to have I have generally had less negative experiences with longer-acting benzos such as diazepam (Valium) and clonazepam (K-pins) but it is unwise to combine benzos with alcohol or othr CNS depressants such as opiates. But just a word of caution benzodiazepine addiction is particularly unpleasant and the withdrawal is very prolonged and has consumed a great deal my mental health.

 

[ThatOneDude!]

Thanks sekio! Big help, makes sense, i do prefer to use on rare cases more like kinda has as first aid kit, ready if need, but limit the amount of use enough to keep levels low in my system with diazepam, i suppose that will increase the subjective/noticable effects (er, euphoria) for when I do take it.

I got bad on xanax so i am much more carfeul with this diazapem. Grand Maul seizures are not fun.

EDIT: I have noticed when i take valium every day, it does kinda start to act a little similar in function to an SSRI? In the strict sense of just how it builds up in your system, and eventually once build up to high enough levels can be felt often/continuous or overlapping. Making less noticible change when i take a new dose of valium (1st time in day for example)? if there is already a subtle buzz from months continued use of diazepam, i imagine a sorta constant buzz from the levels?
Anyway....

So i.e. Diazepam 10mg twice daily. (20mg of day of Diazepam with its outrageous half life.) I wonder after taking every day 20mg diazepam, what the levels in system would be after a month? probly enough to sustain sufficient buzz i'd imagine?

 

[sekio]

Eventually you'd reach a nonzero steady state concentration, it'd depend on your personal physiology how much that'd be. I'd expect you probably wouldn't feel very buzzed though, tolerance to GABAergics does factor in here.

 

[musique]

Thanks sekio! Big help, makes sense, i do prefer to use on rare cases more like kinda has as first aid kit, ready if need, but limit the amount of use enough to keep levels low in my system with diazepam, i suppose that will increase the subjective/noticable effects (er, euphoria) for when I do take it.

I got bad on xanax so i am much more carfeul with this diazapem. Grand Maul seizures are not fun.

EDIT: I have noticed when i take valium every day, it does kinda start to act a little similar in function to an SSRI? In the strict sense of just how it builds up in your system, and eventually once build up to high enough levels can be felt often/continuous or overlapping. Making less noticible change when i take a new dose of valium (1st time in day for example)? if there is already a subtle buzz from months continued use of diazepam, i imagine a sorta constant buzz from the levels?
Anyway....

So i.e. Diazepam 10mg twice daily. (20mg of day of Diazepam with its outrageous half life.) I wonder after taking every day 20mg diazepam, what the levels in system would be after a month? probly enough to sustain sufficient buzz i'd imagine?

It has an elimination half-life of 50-200 hours, so after 4-10 days you could not take any for 2 days and experience zero to very little withdrawal effects.

 

[asecin]

I have struggled with problems to benzo's for a while. I think what has been particular dangerous for me is the amnesia and short-term memory loss as I often used to keep redosing and forgetting how much I have already done. This would be more of an issue with particularly potent benzodiazepine with shorter half-lives such as alprazolam (Xanax) and lorazepam (Ativan) so if you find that is a problem too then, in terms of harm reduction, it might be wise not to buy too many at a time. The forgetfulness and clumsiness could be dangerous sometimes such as leaving the gas turned on or falling asleep with a lit cigarette.

Also Xanax used to make me particularly aggressive so I had to really battle myself to try and stop because that was a horrible trait that I did not want to have I have generally had less negative experiences with longer-acting benzos such as diazepam (Valium) and clonazepam (K-pins) but it is unwise to combine benzos with alcohol or othr CNS depressants such as opiates. But just a word of caution benzodiazepine addiction is particularly unpleasant and the withdrawal is very prolonged and has consumed a great deal my mental health.

what happens when combo with alcohol? i never did benzos without alcohol...