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Will the King and Queen ever be dethroned? (MDA and MDMA)

S

Section813

Bluelighter
Joined
May 13, 2012
Messages
231
When I first ever felt that initial rush of mdxx I knew my life had changed forever. I can still remember the moment with vivid clarity. Wharehouse party. I knew the lives of many others would also be changed. I wanted the entire world to have that feeling of peace and clarity.

So began a great interest in chemicals and human biology. Where does the physical organism end and the spirit begin? Is there a ghost in the machine?

Most importantly I truly believed it wouldnt be long before something else came along that would be even more effective at reducing the barriers that put social and emotional differences between us humans. Its been 20 years and this still hasnt happened. Sure we have had a couple close calls (methylone and mephedrone) but they pale in the glory of the original royalty of the empathogen class. The benzofurans were close but still not as good as the two aforementioned cathinones.

I must say I am both surprised and disappointed that a usurper has not arrived.

So this question is both technical and theoretical. I would love to here feedback from the well studied and the experienced. Will the King and Queen rule forever? What possibilities do we have left? Phenmetrazines possibly? How would such a new chemical change the new generations lucky enough to be in the thick of its birth as we were in the late 80s n early 90s?
 
I think it's something akin to LSD. We had that since the second world war and it still hasn't been surpassed, in my opinion. Many drugs can come close or have their unique qualities, but both MDMA and LSD have such complete effects with a high safety profile you almost kind of have to ask yourself.. "What more could I want?"
 
I think it has more to do with availability and use than anything else. MDMA and LSD are just much more well known. I have certainly come across chemicals over the years that beat MDMA and LSD but they were never as readily available nor socially acceptable in the same circles the other two were. I prefer aMT to MDMA and mescaline to LSD but they're both extremely rare while MDMA and LSD wouldn't take me but a phone call.
 
MagickalKat777 said:
I think it has more to do with availability and use than anything else. MDMA and LSD are just much more well known. I have certainly come across chemicals over the years that beat MDMA and LSD but they were never as readily available nor socially acceptable in the same circles the other two were. I prefer aMT to MDMA and mescaline to LSD but they're both extremely rare while MDMA and LSD wouldn't take me but a phone call.
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If you are ever in the UK, i believe AMT is legal there.
 
LuGoJ said:
If you are ever in the UK, i believe AMT is legal there.
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Its almost all freebase though. I've had a few UK batches of aMT and only one of them was a clean high and it was hydrochloride. aMT freebase degrades quickly, especially when its being transported around in plastic baggies in an envelope across the pond in who knows what conditions in the shipping vessels. It makes no sense for them to sell it as a freebase if you ask me.

But that still brings the point that it isn't socially acceptable in the same circles that MDMA and LSD are. I've done research chems around that crowd before and when I'm higher than everybody else, it tends to get negative attention. Especially when I'm "rolling" on aMT for 12 hours and they are crashing from MDMA and heading into cracked out territory from redosing at the 7 hour mark or earlier.
 
2c-b is new mdma,its getting BIG in my city,while pills are just pile of piperazine and meth with three actual molecules of mdma,2c-b is pure and cheap easily avaliable trough internet

there is no comedown,and its overall very easy on body and mind,u act pretty sober,but that feeling is so so close to mdma
 
2c-b was the first psychedelic i tried years ago and also only time. Have to give it another go when i get the chance :)
 
I never found 2C-B to be that amazing. It's fun to take when you're looking for a little buzz, but for a full blown empathogenic or psychedelic experience I'd much prefer MDMA or LSD, respectively.

I haven't been immersed very deeply in the world of research chemicals, however, I personally find mescaline to have the benefits of LSD + more. I just wish mescaline was more available. The universal love from and for MDMA for those who've tried it seems insurmountable currently, however. The only thing that could make a drug better than MDMA is if it had the same effects without the neurotoxicity.
 
I think they are the most common and fit shows and raves perfectly.
I love the closeness and love of mdma and the complete mind.fuck mda gives you.
lsd at edc chi town was a life changing experience and I thinknitngoes awesome woth the plur scene and shows.

Im yet to try 2 cb but ive heard it hangs with the big dogs. Ive also.been.wanting to get down on some ketamine but havent had and opportunity.

For the most part I think mdma and mda are the two best candidates and I have fairly easy access too.
theres been recent increase in clean pressed pills that looks very promising.
 
I`ve had these thoughts about many drugs before,how can they be improved? Or even surpassed by something new? But what i guess is that all the archetypal drugs do is manipulate brain chemistry,so if a drug has been invented to manipulate a brian chemical in a certain way and does the job to the best of it`s ability then how can it be surpassed? Obviously you can get spin off`s that mimic but they will never be as good as the genus.

I dream of a day when new ideas and technology come along and change the status quo,at this moment it`s inconceivable,but it must happen...Maybe it will be like a movie i saw many years ago where an alien comes to earth to harvest human endorphins as a drug of their choice,harvested from live subjects. Human growth hormone was origanally harvested from cadavers but now is synthesized,so maybe some other unknkown human brian chemical can be synthesized or tweaked or manipulated...The search MUST go on in the pursuit of understanding.
 
Most importantly I truly believed it wouldnt be long before something else came along that would be even more effective at reducing the barriers that put social and emotional differences between us humans. Its been 20 years and this still hasnt happened.
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Not twenty years... one hundred and two years!

MDMA was synthesized and studied as early as 1912. It certainly wasn't popular as a recreational drug then, but I'd be surprised if NOBODY ever took MDMA during the early, or at least mid 20'th century. Amphetamine was synthesized even earlier and saw pharmaceutical use beginning in the 1930's.

I'm not a chemist, but as far as I know there was nothing to stop chemists from synthesizing and studying a wide range of amphetamines and lysergamides over the past hundred years or so. Consider Sasha Shulgin, who started using psychedelics as early as the 1950's. This means that many such chemicals were known and studied decades before they became popular among clubbers and ravers. That's plenty of time for the "best" examples to float to the top.

So recreational drugs are not new, and "classical" examples like MDMA and LSD are not popular because they were the first to be discovered, but because there has been plenty of time to study alternatives and determine which are the "best." It's possible that legality is the only reason for the increased popularity of analogues in recent years.
 
MDMA was an accident. Merck scientists discovered it but shelved it. It was just seen as a precursor to another drug that they were making and they never conducted human trials with it so they never knew what it did in humans.

Shulgin really was the one who realized that it would likely be psychoactive and began experimentation with it.

I think if all drugs were made legal and unfiltered harm reduction information along with scientific studies was disseminated about all of them along with strictly enforced quality control, we would see a huge shift in the drugs that people use. I don't think that MDMA is going anywhere though. Responsible usage negates most of its downsides and with a ban lifted on scientific study of these drugs, we would inevitably see huge strides in reducing or eliminating toxicity of it entirely. Really if it wasn't for the neurotoxicity, MDMA would be a likely candidate for the "perfect" recreational drug. It has a far more acceptable side effect profile than most other things out there, LSD itself included.
 
Shulgin really was the one who realized that it would likely be psychoactive and began experimentation with it.
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Well, Shulgin (and Nichols, apparently) was the first to publish about MDMA's psychoactive effects in humans, but he certainly wasn't the first to hypothesize about it nor the first to use it.

From wikipedia

Merck records indicate that its researchers returned to the compound sporadically. In 1927, Max Oberlin studied the pharmacology of MDMA and observed that its effects on blood sugar and smooth muscles were similar to ephedrine's. Researchers at Merck conducted experiments with MDMA in 1952 and 1959.[133] In 1953 and 1954, the United States Army commissioned a study of toxicity and behavioral effects in animals of injected mescaline and several analogues, including MDMA. The Army experimented with MDMA as an interrogation tool in Project MKUltra.[136] These originally classified investigations were declassified and published in 1973.[137] MDMA was being used recreationally in the United States by 1970.[138] In the mid-1970s, Alexander Shulgin, then at University of California, Berkeley, heard from his students about unusual effects of MDMA; among others, the drug had helped one of them to overcome his stutter. Intrigued, Shulgin synthesized MDMA and tried it himself in 1976.[139] Two years later, he and David E. Nichols published the first report on the drug's psychotropic effect in humans. They described "altered state of consciousness with emotional and sensual overtones" that can be compared "to marijuana, and to psilocybin devoid of the hallucinatory component".[140]
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