Misc Why does benzodiazepines "kill" an LSD (or MDMA) trip?

[Båtmannen]

Hello,

I can get why antidepressants or antipsychotics, who bind to the same receptors as MDMA or LSD, stop their effects. Benzodiazepines, however, do not bind to the same receptors as MDMA or LSD, and yet they (benzodiazepines) "kill"/stop a trip from either of these two drugs. Or so people say, at least. Why is this?

 

[Kaden_Nite]

They don't. Sometimes the sedative, calming effect of benzos can ease or dull the stimulating, anxiogenic effect of psychedelics but it never really counteracts the hallucinations.

I hear people talk about having benzos on hand when preparing for strong trips, as if benzos are a cancel button and they can be used to just opt-out of a psychedelic experience. Good luck with that.

Benzos can definitely help to make heavy trips much more manageable though.


I actually found benzos, in small amounts, had a nice synergy with MDMA too.

Edit: Just my personal experience of course. Perhaps a large dose of a benzo can mute a trip more than I know - I am quite accustomed to benzos. I'd be interested to hear if anyone has actually been able to completely end a trip that way.

 

[Båtmannen]

They don't. Sometimes the sedative, calming effect of benzos can ease or dull the stimulating, anxiogenic effect of psychedelics but it never really counteracts the hallucinations.

I hear people talk about having benzos on hand when preparing for strong trips, as if benzos are a cancel button and they can be used to just opt-out of a psychedelic experience. Good luck with that.

Benzos can definitely help to make heavy trips much more manageable though.


I actually found benzos, in small amounts, had a nice synergy with MDMA too.

That seems more reasonable, to me. Like when using benzos + amphetamine - the benzos might make the rush a bit softer, and make you somewhat less alert and bat-shit crazy, but benzos don't interfere with dopamine. Anti-psychotics are sort of a cancel button....for the high at least, not for the side effects (like muscle rigidity).

Thank you, but I would still like an answer from one of these people who use benzos to quit psychedelic trips.


My brother (not an addict, but was for a short time, years ago) has ordered LSD and we are taking them together (he has this crazy idea that this will stop me from using other drugs), and the only problem is he used stimulants and psychedelelelics until he went bat-shit crazy and i've been...hearing voices and seeing ghosts lately (although not right now, as I haven't used amphetamine for a week or so), but this has more been a problem for people around me than for me. I know he's at risk but I'm not saying anything about it, instead I'm keeping 12 mg alprazolam for us to split. I chose alprazolam instead of clonazepam as I don't think convulsions or heart-bouncing-out-of-chest are as large problems as freaking out.

I was really really delirious when I thought I was done tapering down from benzos, and it was horrible (and I even said "yes" when the guards asked me if they should call the police, as I couldn't explain and I told them "cerebral haemorrhage" but I guess they didn't take me very seriously...but I was positive I was going to die from the cold and usually when going really numb on drugs or having 210/190 in blood pressure I have no problem with the idea of dying, but for some reason I was so scared I [blushing]cried a bit, albeit just for a few seconds, for the first time in like..idk, 15 years[/blushing]...and the reason for telling this is I don't want to experience anything like that ever again...although sooner or later I suppose I will. It went away when the doc immediately put me on diazepam and olanzapine.

I'm not sure if this episode counts as a real state of psychosis, as opposed to hearing voices and seeing ghosts (when I asked my bupe-doc for anti-psychotics, he told me that I didn't need any because I wasn't psychotic...I guess because I always know what I hear might not be for real, but I still act as if they were - because the voices are mostly the police shouting and banging on my door, and now, being completely sober, I can still see that happening...and while I'm super tense and somewhat anxious, it's not anywhere near benzo-withdrawal-induced-psychosis.

Who's at a higher risk for freaking out, me or my brother? And I suppose the answers will be "don't trip", but if the sentence "don't do drugs, they're dangerous" actually worked, this forum would not exist. Even having the benzo in my pocket will have a calming effect, and should anything go wrong we can take 6 mg alprazolam each and then split my aripiprazole and take 30 mg each.... but I mostly want to know if the episode I wrote about above puts me in the danger zone, the same way my brother's stimulant-abuse does? I've never gone crazy for real while using uppers. And the voices I mentioned (while using amphetamine) often are real voices, but just people talking or shouting as people do, and the banging on my door are often cars bumping.

 

[Jaredborgetti]

I dont know how it is for others, but for me, even a small dosage of benzos kill all recreational effects of psychedelics and MDMA, a very very low dose, like 5mg of diazepam, will lower the hallucinations to about 50% but not be really anxiety relieving, a strong dose will absolutely kill the trip in 95% of its intensity, I wish benzos just lessened the anxiety and you could retain all recreational effects since I am prone to anxiety and I have tried this several times with different benzos (midazolam, diazepam, clonazepam, alprazolam) in various dosages as well as several hallucinogens in different dosages LSD, shrooms, mescaline, MDMA etc, the anxiety relieving effect is proportional to the lowered intensity of the trip, I disagree strongly with the statement benzos dont kill a trip. The best luck ive ever had was taking a medium high dosage of clonazepam, I believe it was about 2mg, and then waiting after the peak of the clonazepam and then taking shrooms, and I got some decent visuals but way lower than I would have had sober with the same dosage and I had 0% psychedelic headspace or reflectiveness.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Benzodiazepines tend to kill visuals. Can’t say why.

Also you take a large dose, fall asleep, and are hopefully alright in the morning.

 

[rave23]

Benzos never killed any LSD trips for me. Changed the nature of, sure, but never stopped anything. Back when I was taking 4 to 6 mg of Xanax a day, I used to trip quite frequently. Sure, I had a good tolerance at that point, and if a sober person took that much xanax they would probably go to sleep pretty quickly, but I can say that I've had full and complete trips while on benzos. When I compare them to my sober LSD trips I would say that without the benzos they're much more stimulating, sensitive and intense from an emotional perspective.

 

[Jaredborgetti]

Benzos never killed any LSD trips for me. Changed the nature of, sure, but never stopped anything. Back when I was taking 4 to 6 mg of Xanax a day, I used to trip quite frequently. Sure, I had a good tolerance at that point, and if a sober person took that much xanax they would probably go to sleep pretty quickly, but I can say that I've had full and complete trips while on benzos. When I compare them to my sober LSD trips I would say that without the benzos they're much more stimulating, sensitive and intense from an emotional perspective.

if you take the benzos and wait after they have peaked and then take the psychedelic you will get half assed visuals but no psychedelic headspace or reflectiveness, and you will need about double the dosage for the same visual effects.

 

[cj]

They don't. Sometimes the sedative, calming effect of benzos can ease or dull the stimulating, anxiogenic effect of psychedelics but it never really counteracts the hallucinations.

I hear people talk about having benzos on hand when preparing for strong trips, as if benzos are a cancel button and they can be used to just opt-out of a psychedelic experience. Good luck with that.

Benzos can definitely help to make heavy trips much more manageable though.


I actually found benzos, in small amounts, had a nice synergy with MDMA too.

Edit: Just my personal experience of course. Perhaps a large dose of a benzo can mute a trip more than I know - I am quite accustomed to benzos. I'd be interested to hear if anyone has actually been able to completely end a trip that way.

That was my experience. It just made it easier to handle the trip from a body load feeling. Mentally it was confusing to say the least. I wouldn't try to fix a difficult experience like that with xanax again. It did more harm then good and I never integrated the experience completely

 

[FuckinAcidMan]

Because they blunt brain activity in a similar but more selective way than alcohol, which I have noticed seriously calms trips down. I've only used a benzo once ever, and it was while I was coming up on LSD and I gotta say it was a very smooth easy come up compared to what I usually experience with the "pre flight jitters" on acid. I personally dislike benzos and think they contribute to less than desireable changes in the brain but that's just from observing my mother's behavior as she has continued to use various GABA drugs in an effort to shut her mind off to be "happy." I've also heard that they contribute to the potential of getting Alzheimer's disease later in life, not that it's like guaranteed or anything but still, kinda scary. I mean I know my beer could give me cancer and liver failure so whatever, I'm sure anything that shuts you down so effectively can't exactly be healthy. The best way to live is to be on, not off, lol.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Benzos never killed any LSD trips for me. Changed the nature of, sure, but never stopped anything. Back when I was taking 4 to 6 mg of Xanax a day, I used to trip quite frequently. Sure, I had a good tolerance at that point, and if a sober person took that much xanax they would probably go to sleep pretty quickly, but I can say that I've had full and complete trips while on benzos. When I compare them to my sober LSD trips I would say that without the benzos they're much more stimulating, sensitive and intense from an emotional perspective.

Uhhh.... you take 4 to 6 milligrams a day, so, you're obviously addicted to the drug. You can't have any tolerance to them for them to terminate a trip.

they blunt brain activity

That's a vast overstatement. That might even apply to some or a lot of people, but that is still an over-generalization.

There's enough people who are just more normal or better on them than off them.

I've also heard that they contribute to the potential of getting Alzheimer's disease later in life, not that it's like guaranteed or anything but still, kinda scary.

Not scary at all. The correlation was not strong enough to indicate a contribution. Alzheimer's is a life-long disease progression, and the first symptoms you will notice are anxiety, insomnia, irritability and other personality issues. The more advanced and noticeable issues come in later in life. It is a life-long disease. I probably will succumb to it from what I understand. I'm trying to live a good while before I lose any sense of self forever. KTHX.

A LOT of people have used benzodiazepines; the numbers of people developing Alzheimer's does not support benzos contributing to Alzheimer's later in life.

I know my beer could give me cancer and liver failure

A singular beer? Definitely not. Alcoholism or life-long abuse of alcohol will be strongly correlated and contribute to those potentials, but most alcoholics suffer heart attacks. Less get liver cancer or hepatitis. Even less get cancer of the stomach lining from drinking undiluted liquor in high volumes for prolonged periods of time (yes this can happen to alcoholics, though it is exceedingly rare).

 

[JK25]

My grandmother takes her wig off when she takes Ativan.

 

[Jaredborgetti]

Im completely with Captain Heroin on this one, maybe if someone is addicted to benzos and is taking them just to feel normal, they wont impact the trip as much, or you might not even have a reference since you have been addicted to benzos for so long, but I can guarantee that on a non dependant person any anxiety relieving dose will hinder the trip severely and in sufficiently high dosages terminate it completely.

 

[Kaden_Nite]

Some people really aren't that responsive to benzodiazepines. Some people are prone to paradoxical effects. You can't guarantee that benzos will put a full stop on a strong psychedelic experience. In some situations, it might not be the best idea to use a drug which can cause memory loss, disinhibited and sometimes irrational behaviour on top of a powerful hallucinogen.

I know that benzos are used in hospitals in cases of psychedelic-induced panic or psychosis, but that's more of a controlled setting than your tripping mate's living room at 2am.

It's subjective, like adding alcohol or marijuana to psychedelics, it could go either way. Personally, I've always found weed to work wonders when I'm tripping intensely (I know this is not the case for most people) alcohol tends to just add further instability and benzos have actually seemed to prolong certain psilocybe trips, while easing others.

In a lot of cases, yes, benzos will at least bring a heavy trip down to a more manageable place, maybe even nullify the trip for some people, but I wouldn't suggest anyone rely on, or expect that outcome.

 

[FuckinAcidMan]

Not scary at all. The correlation was not strong enough to indicate a contribution. Alzheimer's is a life-long disease progression, and the first symptoms you will notice are anxiety, insomnia, irritability and other personality issues. The more advanced and noticeable issues come in later in life. It is a life-long disease. I probably will succumb to it from what I understand. I'm trying to live a good while before I lose any sense of self forever. KTHX.

A LOT of people have used benzodiazepines; the numbers of people developing Alzheimer's does not support benzos contributing to Alzheimer's later in life.



A singular beer? Definitely not. Alcoholism or life-long abuse of alcohol will be strongly correlated and contribute to those potentials, but most alcoholics suffer heart attacks. Less get liver cancer or hepatitis. Even less get cancer of the stomach lining from drinking undiluted liquor in high volumes for prolonged periods of time (yes this can happen to alcoholics, though it is exceedingly rare).

That's all actually rather relieving to hear, I suppose I just fear what I don't understand or that I understand poorly at least it seems. GABA drugs are the least intuitive of all substances to me and for some reason invoke distrust and disregard on some weird deep level. Though I try my best to not be prejudiced towards inanimate substances that happen to alter brain activity, but I guess it still happens sometimes.