Bupe Why do all Bupe Drs knowingly lie about bupe having little to no side effects and having "no withdrawal"

[DeathIndustrial88]

What the heck man? I agree with you on most things you post here, but you're WAY off the mark with this. The guy studied pharmacology, so now in your mind he's a member of some greedy money-making cabal only interested in screwing people over for money? Seriously what. the. fuck.

Yes money unfortunately rules everything in this world we live in. And nobody rational denies drug companies make a shit ton of it, nor denies they push some pretty useless medications on the public for the sake of money.

But if you wanna get rich in this field you either become the shareholder of one of said companies or a prestigious specialist in an area like neurosurgery or cardiac surgery. (which at any rate SAVES LIVES, that's why it's prestigious).

And no, you don't need a science degree to make a valid contribution, but what your doing here is just denigrating the whole profession for no reason other than some personal ideology. Yes there are plenty of government-funded research institutes. This does NOT mean all the scientists are somehow beholden to the government in the research they publish.

Because there's this thing called peer review. Any CREDITABLE study has to stand up to peer review, and let me tell you those who are working in the scientific field will ABSOLUTELY tear one another down whenever anything looks like the data has been faked or skewed, or there was a bias in the whole premise, the sample was insufficient (ie not statistically relevant) or the results don't pan out. There's no imaginary united front trying to cover 'the government's' arse. By far the majority of scientific frauds in history have been called out by other scientists, not laymen. That should tell you something.

LOL Hey remember when you flipped out on me 2 years ago cause I didn't get the vaccine? Still glad I didn't.
Remember, you told me I was putting "so many lives in danger" by doing so, when I rarely even leave my own town due to being poor, while you're over there traveling internationally every other week? But yeah it's me putting lives in danger. lol Never had covid, never given another person covid, etc.. That wasn't "out of line" at all to you either huh? It's more out of line for me to claim there's corruption & incompetence in the healthcare industry? LOL

Shaming me for not taking a product that injured & even killed several people I know. How lovely. Doesn't even stop tranmission, but it puts money in Big Pharma's pocket!

And who made sure to purchase all those doses & then threaten Americans liveli-hoods if they didn't take it!? Well, the government did!

"This does NOT mean all the scientists are somehow beholden to the government in the research they publish"

Gee, the only people saying that are YOU & "someguy..." Obviously there's good doctors. I've met plenty of great doctors & even those doctors were prone to error & greed & I still consider them my favorite doctors. My sub doc is great actually.


Your guy's rebuttal is simply "yeah there's corruption & malpractice" and then you rant on & on about how I claim it's every single doctor and scientist. There we go again putting words in my mouth to make your unhinged attack make sense. Do you guys get THAT triggered over the fact that some one mentions the corruption & incompetence in the American healthcare system? Why?

Yeah I do find it suspicious that so many people here are bootlickers of Big Pharma. Why so much vested interested in defending them? So much vested interest that, that's two people now twisting my words to fit their own argument (that I didn't even say).

Yeah you agree with me so much that you've been slyly liking all of "someasshole's" comments & then choose to flip out on me because I post some malpractice numbers? lol Your argument is not in good faith & never has been. You think I've never noticed how two-faced & condescending you actually are?

Fuck off with your hyperbole & bullshit. Nowhere have I said ALL science or doctors are corrupt, but you and your butt buddy can go ahead & keep saying that to make yourselves feel better.

I find it hilarious that you would even defend the US healthcare system, especially since you don't even live here! So yeah, please tell me what my own country is like... you know because I'm so just uneducated & stupid and all. You've obviously been privileged enough to never have been injured or suffered or lost somebody, thanks to these industries. Must be nice!

 

[TheUltimateFixx]

The false premise of serotonin and its relation to depression having been disproven

Yes and no. Serotonin very clearly does play a major role in mood regulation ; it's just simply not that cut-and-dried. It's not a mere matter of 'tweak serotonin levels and you cure the patient', but humans have the unfortunate tendency to crave simplistic, catch-all, black and white solutions to problems.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

"Because there's this thing called peer review. Any CREDITABLE study has to stand up to peer review, and let me tell you those who are working in the scientific field will ABSOLUTELY tear one another down whenever anything looks like the data has been faked or skewed, or there was a bias in the whole premise, the sample was insufficient (ie not statistically relevant) or the results don't pan out. There's no imaginary united front trying to cover 'the government's' arse. By far the majority of scientific frauds in history have been called out by other scientists, not laymen. That should tell you something."


Yeah, that's how it's' supposed to be done. Which clearly doesn't always happen or tons of drugs would have never made it to market & then pulled. Where was all the "peer reviews" then? The American government & pharmaceutical companies aren't BEHOLDEN to whatever is being said in other countries literature.

I point out that system is flawed (which everyone even admits) & then you all flock here like flies on shit to be like "wELL AcTUaLly, yoU're JusT noT sMarT eNoUgH hurr durr." And then claim I said this or that or whatever. lol

If ya'll wanna kiss Big Pharma & the American governments ass, be my guest. But i'm entitled to my own fucking opinion & maybe I should make it a habit to jump on everything you guys say & be all "well no you're wronnggggg reeeeeeeeh". You're just making bluelight a fucking annoying place to hangout, so maybe I should make it a shitty experience for you to come here too & see how you like it.


Some seriously fragile egos. I don't give a fuck about "being right" or "looking smart". Absolutely nothing I said was false anyway & everyone's even admitted so. But yeah let's just keep attacking me & claim I said this or that. Hope you feel "smarter" by doing so.

 

[someguyontheinternet]

When it comes to serotonin and depression it basically ends up with an increase in BDNF, neurogenesis, and increased dendritic arborization. So its not necessarily serotonin that's directly responsible

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

So why don't you go to medical school then

I know this question isn't even in good faith, but I'd love to go to medical school.

Unfortunately health issues prevent me from doing a lot of things & I suck at math.

I never claimed to know everything. But I'm also very aware that just because somebody went to school, doesn't always mean they're smarter or even necessarily more educated. I've known plenty of stupid people that went to school (and they're having fun paying back those student loans) and I've known people who have nothing to do with academia whatsoever who are intelligent.

I don't even think you're stupid, you're quite intelligent, which is why I find you coming at me for bringing up corruption & incompetence rather weird. Especially since I never said EVERY doctor is corrupt. I never speak in definitives like that. I'm not dumb enough to say "all" of anything is anything because that would be completely exclude any nuance.

So rather it makes little sense why everyone's jumping on my throat in this thread. Every single person has stated that there is corruption & incompentence, which is exactly what I said. And then everyone's like "well, it's not in ALL blah blah"... Yeah, no shit, nobody ever said it was, so why be so triggered about somebody mentioning that it even exists? Unless some one wants to quote me where I said "all doctors, pharmacists, scientists, etc..."... Which nobody will do, because it was never actually said.

So basically everyone's being an asshole toward me, while even acknowledging what I said to be true. lol And then trying to say I said "this" or "that" in order to save face, instead of saying "yeah there is corruption & incompetence" and moving the fuck on.

 

[Burnt Offerings]

This kind of argumentation reminds me strongly of all those soldiers who tried to deflect their own responsibility and contribution to war crimes by saying the age old excuse "but we were only following orders".
I'm sorry but doctors most definitely DO have contributed to the way the system is by silent and cowardly compliance. The only innocent people I see here are the patients who always end up on the receiving end.

Excusing greed and corruption among doctors because "they are humans too" is the perfect get out of jail free card. I mean where do we draw the line? Can I found a bank holding company and rob an entire nation's pension fund? Will you excuse this morally despicable act too, because I happen to be human? This is the type of argumentation that someone uses when he doesn't want to change anything about himself because -> hey I'm just human so leave me and my faults alone.

This is exactly what Friedrich Nietzsche criticized about western culture when he was talking about slave morality. You have the mental attitude of a slave who excuses the abuse of his "master" in a stockholm fashion. It's the sign of a psychologically broken individual.

Well the individual doctor doesn’t have much ability to change the US healthcare system. Individual doctors, or groups of doctors, have advocated for systems I find preferable to the current system, like a single payer system for example, but other medical associations both in the United States and Canada have advocated, at one time or another, for healthcare systems or policies I find to be counterproductive and harmful.

But I’m not gonna bring things back to Nuremberg when discussing the issue. I’m sorry but I just don’t see it like that, I’m not about to just “doctors bad cuz they’re just intrinsically fucked up somehow” and leave it at that. I wouldn’t even use that explanation to describe events which everyone agrees are extremely fucked up, has nothing to do with “slave morality” and everything to do with some humility, self reflection and not just coming off as holier-than-thou asshole, imo anyway

You can construct all kinds of narratives in which someone is a villain and worthy of some kind of punishment…if you know someone well enough you can paint that picture for just about anybody. Sure it probably won’t be as glaring as, oh you wouldn’t cut the same slack to genocidal, mass murdering soldiers would you? But you really can make anyone look like shit by selectively focusing on their faults (hell you don’t even need to know em personally, you can just lump em into whatever profession, nation, institution or other grouping you don’t like that they’re a part of!) and doctors especially cuz they deal with human health, a sensitive topic. So where to draw the line indeed

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Oh look the government protecting that corruption again as recently as today...





Even though I'm all for legal opioids, this company intentionally lied & then peddled those lies to the doctors & then made an enormous profit off of it. And now they'll be protected by the government & anyone who needs opioids can get fucked. Their stupidity could also be traced back to why we have so much opioid-phobia in the US currently.

Meanwhile, I can't even afford to use my fuckin' "medical marijuana" card with how much they're extorting people for that right now.


"holier than thou" is several pages of bullshit comments & sticking words in my mouth in order to protect everyone's egos.

This is literally a post about some one asking about their own corrupt doctors & everyone here is acting like this stuff never happens or that when it does, hey it's okay! They're just human bro! Even though greed & corruption exists! You just haven't worked in a lab bro!

Sorry if I wanted to relate to OP's experience rather than invalidate it like you all are doing.

No doctor worth their weight in salt would have thought "oh a thebaine derivative is non-narcotic". And those that did, either did so out of complete ignorance or with malicious intent to get that $$$. Or perhaps they were presented with false scientific research? All of these things which all of ya'll claim doesn't happen.
Fucking stupid.

Yeah no doctors or scientists or politicians or pharma companies have EVER been corrupt or dishonest. Is that what you mother fuckers want to hear? lol Get bent.

With how fake & dishonest all of you are, maybe you should get jobs in big pharma! You'd fit right in & could help keep peddling those lies! Maybe push some of those good ol' vaccines on people too.

Just because there's some honest doctors here or there doesn't mean the entire system is perfect either, like you flakes are suggesting.

 

[Hexenstahl]

@Burnt Offerings
Incredible what great lengths of mental gymnastics you perform, just so you don't have to answer the question I was asking you, so let me repeat it again: where do you draw the line?
If you make an argument you should be able to either substantiate that argument and defend it, or admit that it has flaws instead of coming here and trying to distract by writing some wannabe words of wisdom about "humility" and "self-reflection", philosophical concepts you probably haven't thought about until just now where you see an opportunity to put yourself on a perceived moral highground.
And don't lecture me about slave morality and Nietzsche. I can tell you have only heard but never read of that guy judging by the way you have addressed my words on that concept.

holier-than-thou asshole

Oh now we're using ad hominem attacks? I'm not sure if the mods consider calling others assholes as within the limits of free speech in this forum.

Meanwhile, while I report you, here is something for you to read (something tells me you won't read this though): https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

Btw, you can't fool me dude. Someone who calls others asshole can hide behind a fake exterior of calmness all he wants, but his choice of words betrays that he is very likely seething behind his keyboard...

 

[Hexenstahl]

This is literally a post about some one asking about their own corrupt doctors & everyone here is acting like this stuff never happens or that when it does, hey it's okay! They're just human bro! Even though greed & corruption exists! You just haven't worked in a lab bro!

Couldn't have said this better honestly. It's pretty disgusting behaviour actually if you think about it. Imagine you look for help and advice in all your desperation and nobody takes you serious. That's pretty depressing...

 

[Keif' Richards]

If a prescriber really told you that Buprenorphine has no side effects, no drawbacks and no dependence, yea, that's pretty fucked up. I'm not sure what did or didn't happen. That's not what I'm here to talk about.

Doctors, like teachers, police officers and others in position of authority are just as capable of bad action as any other person. The mistake people make is treating these individuals as not capable of the same vices we all deal with.

Our culture in the West has taught us for years that "they know, you don't and could never". We are supposed to trust these people. What time has told us is that we as patients need to have more agency in our own medical decisions. The Opioid Epidemic is just the latest in a series of innumerable drug epidemics stretching back to before drug prohibition ever started. If you're looking for an interesting read, check out the "Chlorodyne Epidemic". It was a patent medicine containing Chloroform, Morphine, Cannabis and sometimes more. You can imagine how popular that shit must have been.

We have to learn our collective lessons. You can't simply take a doctor's word for anything. If a medication is suggested, information regarding that medication is freely available to anyone who wants to check it out. Doesn't a decision as serious as taking a medication for months or years warrant a few solid hours of research? Even a cursory knowledge of Buprenorphine is going to tell you what it's about.

I'm not saying it's your responsibility. We are supposed to have absolute trust for physicians. It's not necessarily fair, but if you want security in this world, you need knowledge. I'm not chastising you for not knowing. This is for everyone here reading this. You cannot trust anyone point blank in this world.

Doctors who knowingly get patients addicted or otherwise violate their oaths for their own ends will have to answer for that when ol' Anubis puts their heart on the scales.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

If a prescriber really told you that Buprenorphine has no side effects, no drawbacks and no dependence, yea, that's pretty fucked up. I'm not sure what did or didn't happen. That's not what I'm here to talk about.

Doctors, like teachers, police officers and others in position of authority are just as capable of bad action as any other person. The mistake people make is treating these individuals as not capable of the same vices we all deal with.

Our culture in the West has taught us for years that "they know, you don't and could never". We are supposed to trust these people. What time has told us is that we as patients need to have more agency in our own medical decisions. The Opioid Epidemic is just the latest in a series of innumerable drug epidemics stretching back to before drug prohibition ever started. If you're looking for an interesting read, check out the "Chlorodyne Epidemic". It was a patent medicine containing Chloroform, Morphine, Cannabis and sometimes more. You can imagine how popular that shit must have been.

We have to learn our collective lessons. You can't simply take a doctor's word for anything. If a medication is suggested, information regarding that medication is freely available to anyone who wants to check it out. Doesn't a decision as serious as taking a medication for months or years warrant a few solid hours of research? Even a cursory knowledge of Buprenorphine is going to tell you what it's about.

I'm not saying it's your responsibility. We are supposed to have absolute trust for physicians. It's not necessarily fair, but if you want security in this world, you need knowledge. I'm not chastising you for not knowing. This is for everyone here reading this. You cannot trust anyone point blank in this world.

Doctors who knowingly get patients addicted or otherwise violate their oaths for their own ends will have to answer for that when ol' Anubis puts their heart on the scales.

I agree with you here honestly.

I tell everyone to do their research whenever a doctor puts them on something.

My doctor tells me not to do my own research, but I ain't gonna listen. lol Cause half the time I discover whatever they gave me is toxic or has some serious possible side effects like "acute blindness" (topamax). People definitely have to advocate for themselves.

 

[Skorpio]

When it comes to serotonin and depression it basically ends up with an increase in BDNF, neurogenesis, and increased dendritic arborization. So its not necessarily serotonin that's directly responsible

I thought so too, but this dropped recently.

https://www.cell.com/cell-chemical-biology/fulltext/S2451-9456(23)00370-7#%20

One thing about drug development. Once a drug goes into clinical development 90% of drugs fail at each phase I-III, and this is after rounds of animal tox studies and screens against known dangerous targets. If you work in drug design, you are very lucky to have any drug go to market.

Many of the severe side effects that result in drugs being pulled (other than the non-addictive opioid thing; that's just perfidy) are side effects that show up only in huge populations where rate genetic varients show up leading to altered metabolism/effects. Humans share a huge range of different genotypes, and its fiendishly hard to predict how things go wrong before they do.