which isomer of ketamine is which?

[Tranced]

There are two distinctly different types of ketamine; racemic and stereo-isomer.

Before the clamp down in India/2008 the UK was flooded with pure, pharm grade ketamine.

People would buy ounces in liquid and dry it out into these beautiful crystals/shards.

After the clamp-down our ketamine came from elsewhere; possibly China if certain media sources are correct. It was tiny little balls, and somewhat different.

I like the old stuff but I want to be certain that I'm interested in the correct isomer.

One isomer is very heavy and drunk feeling. Speech impediment is more likely, as are kind of static red OEV's. It's got a bit more of a comedown, and whilst it may potentially be more psychedelic, I'm unsure because I can never remember the hole, although I ways come out knowing I've been some place deep. This is the post 2008 stuff (generally). Im not aware of any CEV's.

The other kind is light and floaty. When you hole it can be more gradual. You get CEV's which generally consist of matte landscapes, coupled with feelings of moving in alternating directions. I've felt like I was just casually sliding down a darkened, colourless version of my street before. If you do this over the course of an hour or two, then you enter a very lucid dream like state, and you have a certain control over your CEV's.

I find this simply impossible with the former. The hole is too sudden, too heavy.

I'm hoping this doesn't count as a substance ID thread; I'm just interested. Am I right in thinking that the the first ketamine I mentioned is probably stereo-isomer, and the second racemic? Or is it the other way round?

 

[Solipsis]

There are three types: the R-isomer (arketamine), the S-isomer (esketamine) and racemic ketamine which is 50% R-isomer and 50% S-isomer.

Actually for chiral drugs (some do not have isomers and just exist as one possible form), if nothing is mentioned about it you can assume it is the racemic form. If you don't do anything special in most cases racemic is what you end up with if you try to make a chiral drug... The term stereo-isomer refers to the kind of isomer, in this case it means not a real rearrangement of atoms but a different chirality. What that means is that the isomers are a bit like your hands: they are the same but mirror images of each other.

Anyway, there is a central thread on K isomers if you just follow the PD index and go to the Ketamine Big & Dandy and look in the OP of that thread.

I have experience with the separate isomers and plenty of experience with the racemic form, but even though I have had different batches from different sources I have read reports from people who seem to have them switched compared to my descriptions... so thats confusing.

The heavy drunk and immobilizing isomer was the S-isomer for me. Pure R-isomer was not immobilizing at all at reasonable doses and instead makes me schizo long before having to lie down from any heaviness, I will try using objects like a TV remote thinking it is a completely different object etc, just very cognitively disturbing. But yeah before that point its quite psychedelic.
The S-isomer is anaesthetic but more 'even' feeling - warm and glowy and yes more of an amnesia potential.

If you had one form that was heavy and immobilizing I'd say it was probably the S-isomer (it is no surprise this is the one sometimes used in pure isomer form for anaesthesia like iirc the ketanest brand). If the other one was racemic I guess it was the less immobilizing one. If the other one was not pure R then I guess it was the racemic form - so rest assured there is yet another one (pure R) that is even more light and stimulating, and the hole is not gradual, its not really there at all (an anaesthetic hole at least) because there is no S present. Instead dosing high will just completely meltdown your cognition. In my experience.

However R is reported to be more relaxing, the opposite of what I would say - and S is said to be a DRI while to me it felt much more like R was.. so I'm still a little confused..

 

[Xorkoth]

^^ I have only had racemic ketamine, but I swear that most people describe the s-isomer as light and less dissociating, and racemic as heavier.

 

[Solipsis]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Drugs/comments/2pmg3v/sisomer_ketamine_vs_normal_racemic_ketamine/

In response to that thread:

- Roi says that R is the monoamine reuptaking one, which agrees much more with my findings
- I too feel more active on R, which is not surprising if it is a DRI and lacks most of the anaesthetic effects (dissociative is a more vague term, sorry, I find both isomers dissociative in their own unique but different ways)
- Yes racemic is definitely most common, not only when comparing brands of veterinary K, but just in general most drugs are as racemate.