(SWEET VINDICATION) Why are they making anti-depressants that cause precipitated opi withdrawal "Lybalvi" and others? (I was right and you were wrong)

[Lil'LinaptkSix]

If you watch commercials to be edumacated ...

ermmmmm

All part of the background static.
Is why I stream cannot abide commercials. Too corny or just down right insulting to the general population.
Agreed negro has a great track record of information to be gleaned.
1

 

[smokeymcpot42088]

Part of the background static untill you hear "don't take on opiates as severe precipitated withdrawal will occur"; that popped my head up.

He certainly does; so much so that his opinion almost carried more weight than what I saw with my own eyes.

That being said; this time he was incorrect and this drug very much exists, very much will send you into precip, and is being advertised very agressively.

Somone besides me must have some thoughts on this? Why the samidorphan? I dont believe to combat weight gain as they state since weight gain is one of the first listed side effects still?

Cmon I am the only one slightly bothered by this?

 

[smokeymcpot42088]

But I don't think low dose naltrexone is ever marketed on TV due to the hot water it could get them in with the FDA for marketing naltrexone for off-label, non-FDA approved purposes.

This makes a TON of sense. Why would samidorphan not carry the same amount of heat? More specifically is it a direct analog structurally; I would love to shove this back up there arse. (delusions of grandeur, self diagnosed, doc I need xyz lol)

 

[smokeymcpot42088]

Naltrexone itself is being combined with Buprion for weight loss.

SO where is all the talk of this being illegal and a bunch of BS? For real, what are the laws?

Some dude told us his anti-depressant/psychotic SENT HIM INTO PRECIPITATED WITHDRAWAL.

And you all laughed at him, told him it wasn't possible, frankly insulted dudes intelligence. Well that dude was right (and not me)


Reallly you guys, you dont want opi antagonists in the anti-depressants?

 

[JackARoe]

Lybalvi is the name of the medication and it is indeed Olanzapine combined with a Naltrexone analog and opiate ANTAGONIST Samidorphan!

Just saw the commercial again. That is the drug. Lybalvi for bipolar. Not to be used by opioid dependent patients. May cause precip withdrawal.

Anyhoo I see more typing. Let me get the gist of the posts and catch up. But i said I would say when I see the commercial again. Crazy stuff.

 

[smokeymcpot42088]

I'll catch you up, other than you and I noone seems to be clicking the link or at least acknowledging it is valid.

Some guy posted not too long ago "my anti depressant/psychotic sent me into PWD" and that dude was laughed at ostricized and called an idiot basically.... He was right and it was a bit shameful seeing all these educated folks pounce on him

 

[JackARoe]

I'll catch you up, other than you and I noone seems to be clicking the link or at least acknowledging it is valid.

Yeah, well if anyone is an opioid addict I wouldn’t take lybalvi.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

It is real...

Olanzapine/Samidorphan: A New Combination Treatment for Schizophrenia and Bipolar I Disorder Intended to Reduce Weight Gain - PubMed

Olanzapine is a second-generation antipsychotic with established efficacy in several psychiatric disease states, but its use is limited because of weight gain and metabolic side effects. Samidorphan is a novel opioid antagonist that binds to mu-opioid, kappa-opioid, and delta-opioid receptors...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I heard about this a long ass time ago.
I've seen the commercial too.
Although I don't think it's intended for depression, but for schizo & bipolar. And it also says to "combat weight gain".


So no, negrogesic is incorrect that this doesn't exist.


I am guessing it's on the market, but I don't see any aggressive marketing behind it yet, as I saw the commercial only once & awhile back ago.
And I saw it on TV as well.

It took 2 seconds to see this was real - https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=Samidorphan


And yet Negrogesic acted so confident that no sort of thing existed. Seems like his ego allows him to make snap judgements at people he sees as "less than & less educated" (the average non-staff bluelighter), so they can't possibly be "saying the truth". Not a good look for a staff member of this site.


It may not be specifically for "depression", but as some one who's been in and out of the psyche system for almost 20 years, that doesn't mean doctors won't push it onto patients for their depression. I've been given seroquel, abilify & vraylar for depression (and of course none of it worked & made me feel sick & fucked up), so it's not out of the realm of possibility that depressed opioid addicts might be given this shit.


Love all the people taking negrogesics word for it & mocking OP too, even though OP is right. How juvenile.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Part of the background static untill you hear "don't take on opiates as severe precipitated withdrawal will occur"; that popped my head up.

He certainly does; so much so that his opinion almost carried more weight than what I saw with my own eyes.

That being said; this time he was incorrect and this drug very much exists, very much will send you into precip, and is being advertised very agressively.

Somone besides me must have some thoughts on this? Why the samidorphan? I dont believe to combat weight gain as they state since weight gain is one of the first listed side effects still?

Cmon I am the only one slightly bothered by this?

It's theorized that kappa-antagonism can help with dysphoria, stress & anxiety/depression. But I don't think there's much truth behind it.

I think it's pointless to block all 3 opioid receptors, unless they're trying to keep depressed people from being able to use opioids.,

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

They were also trying to make a buprenorphine / samidorphan combo for depression.

The samidorphan is suppose to block the mu agonism from the bupe, while keeping the kappa antagonism.


I don't think it has passed clinical trials yet though. And I think it's pretty fucking stupid because it's not just the kappa antagonism that makes buprenorphine helpful for depression, but it's partial mu-agonism also. So without the mu-agonism, you're basically just taking a damn opioid antagonist for depression, which is ridiculous. Why even add the bupe to begin with then? These fucks are so crooked.

Buprenorphine/samidorphan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"ALKS-5461 is a (1:1 ratio) combination of: (1) buprenorphine, a weak partial agonist of the μ-opioid receptor (MOR), antagonist/very weak partial agonist of the κ-opioid receptor (KOR), and, to a lesser extent, antagonist of the δ-opioid receptor (DOR) and weak partial agonist of the nociceptin receptor (NOP);[7][8][9][10] and (2) samidorphan, a preferential antagonist of the MOR (but also, to a slightly lesser extent, weak partial agonist of the KOR and DOR).[11][12][13][14] The combination of these two drugs putatively results in what is functionally a blockade of KORs with negligible activation of MORs.[9][12]"

"Through activation of the KOR, dynorphins, opioid peptides that are the endogenous ligands of the KOR and that can, in many regards, be figuratively thought of as functional inverses of the morphine-like, euphoric and stress-inhibiting endorphins,[17] induce dysphoria and stress-like responses in both animals and humans,[18] as well as psychotomimetic effects in humans,[19][20] and are thought to be essential for the mediation of the dysphoric aspects of stress.[21] In addition, dynorphins are believed to be critically involved in producing the changes in neuroplasticity evoked by chronic stress that lead to the development of depressive and anxiety disorders, increased drug-seeking behavior, and dysregulation of the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal (HPA) axis.[17][21][22]"
"


Although this wiki page is confusing because it says buprenorphine is a partial agonist at Kappa, but it's not. It's an antagonist at everything but mu, where it's a partial agonist. So Idk wtf they're talking about.

 

[smokeymcpot42088]

It's theorized that kappa-antagonism can help with dysphoria, stress & anxiety/depression. But I don't think there's much truth behind it.

I think it's pointless to block all 3 opioid receptors, unless they're trying to keep depressed people from being able to use opioids.,

Thank you for engaging!

My premise is that they are trying to get all 'depressed and overweight' people from being able to use opioids. What percent of the US is either overweight or self diagnosed depressed? (Buprion and Naltrexone is manufactured under 'concave' for weight loss)

Sounds like the biggest demographic you could reach? The conspiracy theorist in me is goin crazy

 

[smokeymcpot42088]

Love all the people taking negrogesics word for it & mocking OP too, even though OP is right. How juvenile.

Nah it isn't negrogesic; he was respectful although quite doubting.

Anybody who got a laughing face from me on this topic; it was you. People who responded with ish like "well if tv is where you get your education". Yea you specifically (noted you usually are corrected fire n water *I think and dont care much)

*edit, I have seen the commercial so much I thought it was more than one antidepressant/psychotic honestly.

 

[Skorpio]

I don't think it's a conspiracy. Deathindustrial is right about it being the kappa antagonism they are after. It just happens that samidorphan is effectively a mu antagonist (which is pretty garbo). However selective kappa antagonists are super rare, and many of them lack properties that make them pharmacologically good drugs.

I am pretty familiar with some kappa opioid-depression research, as there is a kappa group in my department. They focus on it meditating stress induced drug relapses, where they show that mice increase drug use after a stressful experience, but this effect can be blocked by a kappa antagonist.

It gets tricky, because there are a few ways to inactivate kappa receptors which lead to different outcomes. One way is through simple antagonism, which blocks temporarily, but compounds like JDtic can cause a long lasting blockade mediated by a c-Jun signal cascade that causes free radical generation and inhibits the receptor for much longer.

However, I don't think they really get how to best use kappa antagonism in humans. I think it's antidepressant properties are pretty specific to stress responses, and I'm not sure how to identify a population which would benefit from the drug (this is the big killer of a lot of antidepressants; depression is simply a constellation of symptoms, and many antidepressants only treat certain clusters of depression with certain causes).

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Thank you for engaging!

My premise is that they are trying to get all 'depressed and overweight' people from being able to use opioids. What percent of the US is either overweight or self diagnosed depressed? (Buprion and Naltrexone is manufactured under 'concave' for weight loss)

Sounds like the biggest demographic you could reach? The conspiracy theorist in me is goin crazy

They definitely are at war with wanting to remove opioids from the masses altogether.

Which is profound to me, because opioids DO help depression & can help people get back to work & be more active. So why are they taking them away from everyone all the sudden?

Nah it isn't negrogesic; he was respectful although quite doubting.

Anybody who got a laughing face from me on this topic; it was you. People who responded with ish like "well if tv is where you get your education". Yea you specifically (noted you usually are corrected fire n water *I think and dont care much)

*edit, I have seen the commercial so much I thought it was more than one antidepressant/psychotic honestly.

Negrogesic is a pretty smart dude, but I've tried talking with him on here numerous times & he seems a little dismissive & stand offish at times.
Just seemed condescending. Especially when it would have taken 2 seconds to google it & see that you were telling the truth.

And the subsequent comments after trying to make fun of you for watching tv is pretty condescending as well. ESPECIALLY since when I was reading this post, I knew exactly what you were talking about before I even googled it. I was like "how dare they tell this dude he's wrong!" lol I had to jump in.

I don't think it's a conspiracy. Deathindustrial is right about it being the kappa antagonism they are after. It just happens that samidorphan is effectively a mu antagonist (which is pretty garbo). However selective kappa antagonists are super rare, and many of them lack properties that make them pharmacologically good drugs.

I am pretty familiar with some kappa opioid-depression research, as there is a kappa group in my department. They focus on it meditating stress induced drug relapses, where they show that mice increase drug use after a stressful experience, but this effect can be blocked by a kappa antagonist.

It gets tricky, because there are a few ways to inactivate kappa receptors which lead to different outcomes. One way is through simple antagonism, which blocks temporarily, but compounds like JDtic can cause a long lasting blockade mediated by a c-Jun signal cascade that causes free radical generation and inhibits the receptor for much longer.

However, I don't think they really get how to best use kappa antagonism in humans. I think it's antidepressant properties are pretty specific to stress responses, and I'm not sure how to identify a population which would benefit from the drug (this is the big killer of a lot of antidepressants; depression is simply a constellation of symptoms, and many antidepressants only treat certain clusters of depression with certain causes).

Absolutely this.

I'm on the fence about kappa antagonism being good for depression. I suppose it could be in certain circumstances like you said, but depression is a complex problem. People can have depression for all kinds of reasons & I'm just not sure kappa antagonism alone would help most people. I think Suboxone helps depression because the bupe still retains some mu-agonist properties. And all opioids are antidepressants IMO.

I guess I've never taken a kappa-antagonist on it's own to really say for sure from experience.

I've always wondered if there's any sort of rebound/discontinuation syndrome from kappa antagonists & what that would entail (hallucinations, extreme anxiety, I'd assume).

 

[Jnowhere]

Olanzapine is Zyprexa, it is a Zombie drug. Antipyschotic and antidepressant are not the same.

JackARoe is right, but that med is for schizophrenia or possibly bipolar.
I am scared of that drug, I saw what it can do to a person without schizophrenia or bipolar. They were a zombie on it. No buzz, but a bib, would be a good idea, you might drool on yourself and blackout for weeks at a time.
They were given it because they were senile and violent, 4 point restraits and pulling out IV's and taking swings at the nurses.

Granted it is mixed with other shit, but still if you ain't schizo or possibly bipolar, I would ask your doctor if it is right for you, lol.

 

[smokeymcpot42088]

I don't think it's a conspiracy. Deathindustrial is right about it being the kappa antagonism they are after. It just happens that samidorphan is effectively a mu antagonist (which is pretty garbo). However selective kappa antagonists are super rare, and many of them lack properties that make them pharmacologically good drugs.

I am pretty familiar with some kappa opioid-depression research, as there is a kappa group in my department. They focus on it meditating stress induced drug relapses, where they show that mice increase drug use after a stressful experience, but this effect can be blocked by a kappa antagonist.

It gets tricky, because there are a few ways to inactivate kappa receptors which lead to different outcomes. One way is through simple antagonism, which blocks temporarily, but compounds like JDtic can cause a long lasting blockade mediated by a c-Jun signal cascade that causes free radical generation and inhibits the receptor for much longer.

However, I don't think they really get how to best use kappa antagonism in humans. I think it's antidepressant properties are pretty specific to stress responses, and I'm not sure how to identify a population which would benefit from the drug (this is the big killer of a lot of antidepressants; depression is simply a constellation of symptoms, and many antidepressants only treat certain clusters of depression with certain causes).

Thank you for what I would think is the most informed post we are going to get. (your certainly above my knowledge grade). If you don't think it is a conspiracy that is good news to me. It does beg some questions, like...

just happens that samidorphan is a mu antagonist.......Great point to kill the project and look elsewhere?

paraphrased for time, correct me if misqouted in meaninful way "there is a kappa group in my dpt.....they focus on it meditating stress INDUCED DRUG RELAPSES. " .... But this isn't about drug relapse at all; weight loss??

The reason they are touting the samidorphan being included has NOTHING to do with depression and it is listed to control the weight gain side effect of Olanzapine. Guess what the first side effect is, weight gain.

Yea once negrogesic weighs in people have a tendency to take his track record as a chance to pile on and laugh and talk about how such a thing could never be legal. Really this thread is totally fine. The poor dude that went into PWD and was attacked from all angles, that was a bit shameful

 

[smokeymcpot42088]

How about buprion and naltrexone for weight loss.

If they say the samidorphan is to curb weight gain, which is the sole reason they state putting it there; weight gain probably shouldn't be the first side effect. You are right this is a zombie drug and an antipsychotic and antidepressant are indeed not the same.

With commercials appealing like this I will bet alot of people looking to "add to their depression or bipolar medication" for additional relief. "is your antidepressant not cutting it?

Like I said none of these conditions apply to me so far; but again "overweight and depressed" is about the widest demographic you could swing for

 

[smokeymcpot42088]

Olanzapine is Zyprexa, it is a Zombie drug. Antipyschotic and antidepressant are not the same.

JackARoe is right, but that med is for schizophrenia or possibly bipolar.
I am scared of that drug, I saw what it can do to a person without schizophrenia or bipolar. They were a zombie on it. No buzz, but a bib, would be a good idea, you might drool on yourself and blackout for weeks at a time.
They were given it because they were senile and violent, 4 point restraits and pulling out IV's and taking swings at the nurses.

Granted it is mixed with other shit, but still if you ain't schizo or possibly bipolar, I would ask your doctor if it is right for you, lol.

Ok, of course I agree that antipsychotics are not the same as antidepressants.... This may be a slippery slope argument.

How about naltrexone and buprion for weight loss?

Depression and Obesity in America is about the widest demographic you can swing for. (and if you think there is a firm grasp in the medical community, well I got offered seroquil instead of kpin for anxiety. Freaked said it was a sister drug of thorazine and not in a million years.

The marketing is very agressive as well, "is your antidepressant/psychotic just not enough anymore" ...

For the record if I was schizo or bipolar and retained the braincells needed I would avoid anything with an opi antagonist immediately. Hell I shit can my antidepressants on the OFF CHANCE some good E is gunna be around.