What amount of nitrous use should you worry about B12 deficiency?

[Hilopsilo]

I always knew this was a thing but never did that much nitrous really, maybe a few after a show or at a festival and only then would it ever be a lot in one night.

What I want to clarify, is it the frequency of use or how much you actually do?

For example, me and my roommate picked up a bunch of nitrous for a festival and got it for a very good deal so got some extra just to do whenever.

For the last 2 weeks I've been doing 1-3 balloons every day, missed a couple days here and there. but never more than like 3 in one day. Is that level of use really anything to worry about? I know there are people that go through literally a hundred of these suckers in a day. I thought maybe 1-3 each day would be pretty harmless?

A friend of mine brought this to my attention when i told him I was doing a couple each day for a week or so, but this is the same guy who claimed he got bladder issues from going through ~1gram of ketamine over a couple months lol. Somewhat alarmist.

One balloon when I wake up in the morning really refreshes me (Not concerned about habit forming, I've been doing drugs for ~8 years and know myself well enough.)

I'm not a scientist, so I really have no clue how the B12 deficiency works/builds up. Anyone want to explain this a bit?

 

[Cotcha Yankinov]

B12 deficiency is a concern even with only one balloon a day, the most common anecdotal report of nitrous related neuropathy is "I did 20 chargers a day for 2 weeks and now my extremities won't stop tingling" but even small amounts of nitrous may decimate the B12 stores over time

There are case reports of people who were already low on B12 who got neuropathy (that occasionally never quite healed, even with IV b12) after one session of nitrous anesthesia

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7304483 " Return of normal folate levels requires a dietary source of folate."

If you want to wake up with a balloon every morning I advise B12 + folate supplements and a multivitamin with folate, which are a good idea for health regardless of nitrous use

Watch out for pins and needles in the extremities that don't have to do with the acute use

 

[Hilopsilo]

Interesting, I often get crazy pins & needles in my extremities from MDMA on the harsh come up which goes away once thats over. Tried for years to find info on this but really never found much at all and I'm just chalking it up to my own reaction since at first it seems pretty scary but after so many times it ends up being so I've sort of learned to just tell myself its fine.

I know thats only an example anecdote, but that is 20 chargers a day, which I don't think I've ever done that many in a day before even at parties/festivals, but even 1 could be a concern? 20 chargers a day for 2 weeks is a TON, thats 280 balloons. I probably havent done half that in my entire life.

This weekend im going to a festival where I will probably be doing a lot of nitrous. I'm bringing 50 with me to do over 3 nights. Should I preload now with b12 or just take it afterward?

 

[Hexagon Sun]

What about other dissos as mxe, 3-meo-pcp, etc. Do you have to check you b12 levels as well?. What´s the depletion mechanism?

 

[Hodor]

What about other dissos as mxe, 3-meo-pcp, etc. Do you have to check you b12 levels as well?. What´s the depletion mechanism?

Unlike the arylcyclohexamines N2O is also a powerful oxidant; it oxidizes the cobalt ion in the center of the B12/cobalamine molecule, causing it to become inactive.

So while daily use of arylcyclohexamines is inadvisable for a number of reasons, this isn't one of them.

 

[Cotcha Yankinov]

A friend of mine brought this to my attention when i told him I was doing a couple each day for a week or so, but this is the same guy who claimed he got bladder issues from going through ~1gram of ketamine over a couple months lol. Somewhat alarmist.

Just saw this bit -

neurogenic bladder with ketamine/MXE use is no joke either but different people will be more or less susceptible. Its always good to assume that you are in the more susceptible category and play it safe because permanent bladder damage is no fun.

 

[Cotcha Yankinov]

Interesting, I often get crazy pins & needles in my extremities from MDMA on the harsh come up which goes away once thats over.

There can be other reasons for pins and needles, for example hyperventilation (respiratory alkalosis) can cause pins and needles

Should I preload now with b12 or just take it afterward?

Preload. It seems as though it can take a while to build up your stores while nitrous abuse can deplete your stores fairly quickly.

I'm not sure if the nitrous B12 depletion is 100% linear in the sense that 100 balloons in one day depletes the same amount as 1 balloon every day for a hundred days. I think doing a bit of nitrous every day is probably worse than doing it all in one day, even if its the same amount.

 

[spacejunk]

so arylcyclohexamines don't deplete b12?
i was under the impression that they did.

 

[Tranced]

I think its specific to the action of nitrous oxide within the body.

Despite being so necessary for operations and interventions, laughing gas is seen by the body as a toxin, that must be rendered harmless. This process happens when methylcobalamin or reduced cobalamin reacts with the nitrous oxide.

Through this, laughing gas molders into water and non-reactive nitrogen, and the central cobalt atom in vitamin B12 is oxidized.1 The resulting oxidized form of vitamin B12 is however biologically inactive and thus cannot fulfill its important enzyme functions in methionine synthesis and the reactivation of folic acid. This deactivation is irreversible: the oxidized cobalamin is converted into ineffective B12 analogs and thereafter excreted.

http://www.b12-vitamin.com/anesthesia/
Urgh, I hate the way they call it laughing gas there, but it was the best I could find on my phone.

 

[spacejunk]

interesting, thanks for that.

 

[copium7777]

. I think doing a bit of nitrous every day is probably worse than doing it all in one day, even if its the same amount.

Holy shit. Concerning

 

[copium7777]

B12 deficiency is a concern even with only one balloon a day, the most common anecdotal report of nitrous related neuropathy is "I did 20 chargers a day for 2 weeks and now my extremities won't stop tingling" but even small amounts of nitrous may decimate the B12 stores over time

There are case reports of people who were already low on B12 who got neuropathy (that occasionally never quite healed, even with IV b12) after one session of nitrous anesthesia

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7304483 " Return of normal folate levels requires a dietary source of folate."

If you want to wake up with a balloon every morning I advise B12 + folate supplements and a multivitamin with folate, which are a good idea for health regardless of nitrous use

Watch out for pins and needles in the extremities that don't have to do with the acute use

@sekio do you think this is alarmist or roughly correct ?

 

[Gary White]

I get my B-12 tested about once a year and it is always OK but I do take a 3500mg supplement every day. I also go through 600-800 carts a month.