WAY TOO MANY ecstasy pills recovery + question about muscle twitching (1.5 months after)

[Burkett]

Oh boy where to start about the fucking insanity that befell me.

To begin, small prolegomena and TL;DR: This is a female perspective. It will be relevant afterwards. It's been a month and a week of my giga binge. I've done copious amounts of research which I will be sharing here to some degree. I will make a final post once I've fully recovered, with all the SCIENCE that seems to be lacking in the recovery parts of the forum so much.

My question to the forum: Has anyone had these muscle twitches from too much molly and can tell me their experiences?

The night: Drunk, took 3 pills and my adderall medication. I don't remember everything that happened.

The first week:
- Muscle twitches / spasms / myoclonus at rest or while falling asleep.
- Tingles.
- Hypnic jerks sometimes.
- Dizziness.
- Covid-like symptoms, electric shocks / shivers.
- Anxiety. Liquid fear. Couldn't even move out of bed.
- Lots of thoughts of suicide and doom.
- OCD
- Brain fog
- My period gets triggered 2 weeks prematurely

The second week:
- Insomnia started. Waking up during the night, every 2-3 hours, struggling to fall asleep.
- Unable to nap - constant hypnic jerks if I tried.
- Panic attacks on top of the anxiety attacks now.
- Lots of thoughts of suicide and doom.
- Shivers, dizziness and brain fog went away for the most part.
- UNBEREABLE FUCKING TINGLE IN MY SPINE.
- My period gets triggered AGAIN!

Now:
- Muscle spasms and twitches at rest.
- Some insomnia.
- Everything else is gone. Thanks to SCIENCE!! 10 billion percent!!! (Only weebs will get it)


How I fixed most of my issues, other than giving it time?

First, it took me realising that my body was producing too much cortisol. There were a plethora of indicators for this: the first, that my body was triggering my period for no reason week after week. Cortisol is the precursor to progesterone, a hormone that participates in regulating the menstrual cycle; the second, that my insomnia consisted in difficulty staying asleep / waking up constantly - and cortisol is the hormone that is in charge of waking us up, and has a very important nocturnal cycle. I woke up most often during REM sleep, when serotonin, histamine and dopamine receptors turn off. Serotonin receptors also manage the stress response, creating thus an infinite cycle of dysregulated cortisol release. This is most often referred to in this forum as HPA axis dysregulation (... which is what it is).

I started taking magnesium* (common deficiency + stress hormones consume it), and relaxants throughout the day.
I ate RIGHT before bed so that it would act as "slow release" agent of the supplements that took before sleep. And also eat sugary foods which elevates insulin which is the ''counter'' to cortisol. This included (but now I have weaned off of) 0.15mg Xanax, 100mg L-theanine (which I already took throughout the day) 400mg of baccoppa monnieri and camomille tea. Running every morning right after I wake up. Waking up with sunlight. 2+- hour of flexibility but mostly same time every day. Fuck the no screens thing I want some anime and that's okay.

The baccoppa monnieri is more of a nootropic that I'm taking to stimulate neural connection regrowth (look up the studies yadda yadda rats yadda yadda). On top of cardio and healthy food.

 

[cosmosmariner]

Sounds awful, but many of your symptoms are common.

Melatonin is a good idea, but only at bedtime. If you want to slow the release, pick up an extended release form.
Ashwagandha has been shown to lower cortisol levels (you should take this in the afternoon, when you want cortisol levels to be low).
Love that you’re doing exercise in sunlight. Perfect.

Take care of yourself and avoid MDMA for a long while (and perhaps other drugs too).

 

[G_Chem]

I really appreciate your perspective on what has often been called “MDMA LTC” (long term comedown.)

Your theory does make some sense.. MDMA releases 800% normal cortisol levels on the comeup, then you’ve got the increased cortisol upon coming down from the alcohol.

I used to theorize LTC could possibly be caused by magnesium deficiency, and a couple people that I’ve interacted with over the years were able to cure theirs with magnesium supplements.

LTC could be a complex multi-factored syndrome for all we know..

Magnesium deficiency symptoms include muscle spasms, tics and shaking. Find yourself a good bioavailable magnesium supplement. Report back!

-GC

 

[Burkett]

Sounds awful, but many of your symptoms are common.

Melatonin is a good idea, but only at bedtime. If you want to slow the release, pick up an extended release form.
Ashwagandha has been shown to lower cortisol levels (you should take this in the afternoon, when you want cortisol levels to be low).
Love that you’re doing exercise in sunlight. Perfect.

Take care of yourself and avoid MDMA for a long while (and perhaps other drugs too).

Hey thanks

I actually meant magnesium (though I did take melatonin a few times, it helped).
I heard and read about Ashwagandha. Seems to be widely regarded as Good. I decided not to get it because the ones I'm taking do their job.

 

[Burkett]

I really appreciate your perspective on what has often been called “MDMA LTC” (long term comedown.)

Your theory does make some sense.. MDMA releases 800% normal cortisol levels on the comeup, then you’ve got the increased cortisol upon coming down from the alcohol.

I used to theorize LTC could possibly be caused by magnesium deficiency, and a couple people that I’ve interacted with over the years were able to cure theirs with magnesium supplements.

LTC could be a complex multi-factored syndrome for all we know..

Magnesium deficiency symptoms include muscle spasms, tics and shaking. Find yourself a good bioavailable magnesium supplement. Report back!

-GC

Thank you for your reply!

Magnesium depletion probably fuels the LTC. I agree with that, but I do not think it is the sole precursor. A hyperactive adrenal gland in response to a traumatic event, or stress, can spike cortisol. When this happens, you're kind of fucked, because it becomes a self feeding loop. High cortisol -> more anxiety over small and large events -> more cortisol -> more anxiety, etc. And high cortisol for a prolongued period of time has all sorts of side effects. (I.e I had weekly periods!!!).

I also do think overdosing on MDMA damages serotinin receptors, which also regulate stress responses. But I also do not think this is permanent or something you can't heal back from as shown in a multitude of studies about brain plasticity, recovery, regrowth, etc.

Apologies as I wrote melatonin instead of magnesium. I started taking magnesium about a week and a half in, and have been taking it ever since. Between 300-400 per day depending on how many bananas i eat, lol.

On the muscle spasms: Apparently they are *severe* when I sleep, as my boyfriend pointed out. Approximately one every couple of minutes.

The first time I noticed them was the next day, falling asleep on the train, both my arms flopped at the same time, to my horror. The twitches are not as potent now, I must say.

 

[cosmosmariner]

Plus one on the magnesium.

 

[Burkett]

I really appreciate your perspective on what has often been called “MDMA LTC” (long term comedown.)

Your theory does make some sense.. MDMA releases 800% normal cortisol levels on the comeup, then you’ve got the increased cortisol upon coming down from the alcohol.

I used to theorize LTC could possibly be caused by magnesium deficiency, and a couple people that I’ve interacted with over the years were able to cure theirs with magnesium supplements.

LTC could be a complex multi-factored syndrome for all we know..

Magnesium deficiency symptoms include muscle spasms, tics and shaking. Find yourself a good bioavailable magnesium supplement. Report back!

-GC

Also I do have a way of testing the hypothesis of whether or not the muscle twitches are from damaged/misfiring neurons.

5-HT1D are the serotonin receptors that deal with locomotion. There's an antagonist drug to this receptor that is used to treat migraines. It's like a couple hundred bucks though.

I'm also not a chemist, this is all self taught in the span of a week or so thanks to my magical ADHD hyperfixation abilities. So any drug wizards please feel free to correct or add to this.

 

[negrogesic]

First, it took me realising that my body was producing too much cortisol. There were a plethora of indicators for this: the first, that my body was triggering my period for no reason week after week. Cortisol is the precursor to progesterone, a hormone that participates in regulating the hormonal cycle

As a minor note, with regard to cortisol and progesterone, it's the other way around (i.e., cortisol isn't a precursor to progesterone, but rather progesterone is a precursor to cortisol). High levels of stress accelerate the conversion of progesterone to cortisol, which in turn causes the uterine lining to thin, thus triggering a period.

 

[Burkett]

As a minor note, with regard to cortisol and progesterone, it's the other way around (i.e., cortisol isn't a precursor to progesterone, but rather progesterone is a precursor to cortisol). High levels of stress accelerate the conversion of progesterone to cortisol, which in turn causes the uterine lining to thin, thus triggering a period.

Good to know thank you

 

[snmfmy]

Oh boy where to start about the fucking insanity that befell me.

To begin, small prolegomena and TL;DR: This is a female perspective. It will be relevant afterwards. It's been a month and a week of my giga binge. I've done copious amounts of research which I will be sharing here to some degree. I will make a final post once I've fully recovered, with all the SCIENCE that seems to be lacking in the recovery parts of the forum so much.

My question to the forum: Has anyone had these muscle twitches from too much molly and can tell me their experiences?

The night: Drunk, took 3 pills and my adderall medication. I don't remember everything that happened.

The first week:
- Muscle twitches / spasms / myoclonus at rest or while falling asleep.
- Tingles.
- Hypnic jerks sometimes.
- Dizziness.
- Covid-like symptoms, electric shocks / shivers.
- Anxiety. Liquid fear. Couldn't even move out of bed.
- Lots of thoughts of suicide and doom.
- OCD
- Brain fog
- My period gets triggered 2 weeks prematurely

The second week:
- Insomnia started. Waking up during the night, every 2-3 hours, struggling to fall asleep.
- Unable to nap - constant hypnic jerks if I tried.
- Panic attacks on top of the anxiety attacks now.
- Lots of thoughts of suicide and doom.
- Shivers, dizziness and brain fog went away for the most part.
- UNBEREABLE FUCKING TINGLE IN MY SPINE.
- My period gets triggered AGAIN!

Now:
- Muscle spasms and twitches at rest.
- Some insomnia.
- Everything else is gone. Thanks to SCIENCE!! 10 billion percent!!! (Only weebs will get it)


How I fixed most of my issues, other than giving it time?

First, it took me realising that my body was producing too much cortisol. There were a plethora of indicators for this: the first, that my body was triggering my period for no reason week after week. Cortisol is the precursor to progesterone, a hormone that participates in regulating the menstrual cycle; the second, that my insomnia consisted in difficulty staying asleep / waking up constantly - and cortisol is the hormone that is in charge of waking us up, and has a very important nocturnal cycle. I woke up most often during REM sleep, when serotonin, histamine and dopamine receptors turn off. Serotonin receptors also manage the stress response, creating thus an infinite cycle of dysregulated cortisol release. This is most often referred to in this forum as HPA axis dysregulation (... which is what it is).

I started taking magnesium* (common deficiency + stress hormones consume it), and relaxants throughout the day.
I ate RIGHT before bed so that it would act as "slow release" agent of the supplements that took before sleep. And also eat sugary foods which elevates insulin which is the ''counter'' to cortisol. This included (but now I have weaned off of) 0.15mg Xanax, 100mg L-theanine (which I already took throughout the day) 400mg of baccoppa monnieri and camomille tea. Running every morning right after I wake up. Waking up with sunlight. 2+- hour of flexibility but mostly same time every day. Fuck the no screens thing I want some anime and that's okay.

The baccoppa monnieri is more of a nootropic that I'm taking to stimulate neural connection regrowth (look up the studies yadda yadda rats yadda yadda). On top of cardio and healthy food.

I just have a few questions.

Did you have the pills tested?
What were the results of the test?

If you didn't have them tested, you do realize you can't be sure that it was MDMA, don't you?

I've done lots of multi-pill nights. I've done lots of multiple multi-pill nights in a row.

I am not going to discount your experience nor am I going to say that MDMA won't give you muscle, twitches etc.

What I will say is that assuming that the dose was 125 mg per pill, 375 mg of MDMA usually does not cause that.

However, many of the substituted methcathinones pyrovalarones and pyrrolidines do cause muscle twitching, myoclonus, jerks and zaps and so on when the dose is 375 mg because the normal dosing is 40 or 50 mg a couple times during the night. And that class of compounds has a significantly extended sympathomimetic action, is known to induce multiple days of insomnia as well as psychosis even from low doses, one would not expect.

Your report is almost exactly what would be expected from an event that consisted of synthetic cathinone/ pyrovalerone/ pyrrolidines (the class of compounds that contain mephedrone, MDPV(flakka) and alpha-php) intoxication with a moderately large dose.

You should research recovery reports regarding the class of drugs that I'm talking about and see if your experience matches more closely to people that had become intoxicated with flakka, alpha PHP, etc.

Then again if you have a GCMS test that says it was MDMA, or used at least Marquis, Mandelin, mecke, Liebermann, Simon's, and Froehde at least to differentiate MDMA from analogs and brother and sister compounds, Then you'd have confidence it was MDMA otherwise could be anything.