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N&PD Moderators: Skorpio | thegreenhand
Vice - 5.02 of interest in over 24 hours of 'drug chemistry'
- Thread starter Fertile
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porkstock
Bluelighter
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I think that working in a chemistry lab, having a bachelor's degree in interdisciplinary science, and publishing at least 7 papers qualifies one as a scientist.
I didn't know that he had joined COMPASS as a consultant. Maybe he will have some positive influence on their decisions. Easier to change things from the "inside," although I get your line of thinking - it's probably easier for him to become a part of it, get paid nicely and not rock the boat too much.
Any way to watch or listen to this interview?
fastandbulbous
Bluelight Crew
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I don't know. If it did, it would only be an audio recording, as it was a telephone interview.I think that working in a chemistry lab, having a bachelor's degree in interdisciplinary science, and publishing at least 7 papers qualifies one as a scientist.
I didn't know that he had joined COMPASS as a consultant. Maybe he will have some positive influence on their decisions. Easier to change things from the "inside," although I get your line of thinking - it's probably easier for him to become a part of it, get paid nicely and not rock the boat too much.
Any way to watch or listen to this interview?
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I think that working in a chemistry lab, having a bachelor's degree in interdisciplinary science, and publishing at least 7 papers qualifies one as a scientist.
Getting attached to a few publications written by others doesn't qualify him as a scientist (particularly since the only reason that said situation came about was due to his high profile status as a media figure). This is the same reason he was hired as a "consultant" for Compass, which inevitability was driven by their desire to capitalize on his celebrity (ie, to attract investment and media attention) rather than any real interest in his scientific contributions. And certainly anyone solely with an academic background consisting of an undergraduate degree couldn't really be thought of as a scientist (at least these days).
While it appeals to the unsophisticated and the hipster crowd, the "scientist" act sort of insults the intelligence of those who know better.
You could certainly call him a researcher, or one who conducts research of a scientific nature I suppose. But to call him a scientist is a big stretch and an insult to those who spent countless hours in the classroom and as an RA in a lab doing monotonous tasks (myself not included -- my academic background is in a soft science, of a quantitative nature).
porkstock
Bluelighter
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I managed to earn a PhD in biochem, and have ever since worked in a lab setting. I've only got my name attached to two publications, so I'm not much of a scientist myself, but I still consider myself one. I can see how one might think of Mr. Morris more as someone "playing" scientist rather than actually being a one. I guess I've never thought about the line in the sand between scientist and non
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I've been told by a friend who work with him that Hamilton would like to interview me for his podcast. I presume due to some of my experiments/trip reports on virtually unheard of drugs, like 2C-N, and the fact that I was the first to explore and write up a report on a workup of DOF from 1mg to 22mg in 7 experiments. I haven't been contacted yet, though. I hope I do, it would be interesting.
I remember him from bac when he was BLer, we were both PD posters in the same community. Never thought little hammy would end up where he did. He got a lot of hate on here when he started getting fame, but it always struck me as jealousy.
I remember him from bac when he was BLer, we were both PD posters in the same community. Never thought little hammy would end up where he did. He got a lot of hate on here when he started getting fame, but it always struck me as jealousy.
Fertile
Bluelighter
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Do it if he pays and/or YOU have something to sell. If you have a stack of trip reports - compile them into a book and point out to the publisher that you will shortly be interviewed by HM.
Let's face it - He's doing it for the money.
HOOH
Bluelighter
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Holy shit all of the hate on him is totally unnecessary, this is just the very same cancel culture everyone is bitching about...
Everyone who has ever been a major figure in the psychedelic community has been 10x worse than him, whose worst crime is being mean to someone once or scuffing at some fucking doll.
Y'all acting like Shulgin himself wasn't a Bohemian Grove member that worked with the DEA and helped to testify against manufacturers
Everyone who has ever been a major figure in the psychedelic community has been 10x worse than him, whose worst crime is being mean to someone once or scuffing at some fucking doll.
Y'all acting like Shulgin himself wasn't a Bohemian Grove member that worked with the DEA and helped to testify against manufacturers
Fertile
Bluelighter
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While other may have faults - but they were at least qualified chemists.
As I have said - as a journalist, he's OK. He writes to the style vice wants and I presume is paid.
So if he wished to interview someone (for money), is it unreasonable to suggest that the person being interviewed prints up his HUGE wad of trip reports and sells them or otherwise profits from them? You act like HM is doing the interviewee a favour.
If you weren't aware - journalists het paid.
It's also not that 1 person is making a point, but that again and again he distorts the truth which is the crime of crime for a journalist.
I hardly think a handful of people on a board 99.%% of internet won't even have heard of let alone seen equate to cancel culture. Nobody is attempting to place the information somewhere that his readers are likely to visit. Or is criticism cancelled? We ALL know he doesn't know even the basics of chemistry - find for a journalist but it seems like he infers that HE did all of the calculations, That's clearly misrepresentation.
But as I said - nobody is attempting to spread this so NO, it isn't cancel culture. We are not asking those would are incapable of seeing the information and making their own opinion is seeing it.
BTW his seeming AMAZING calculation of how methaqualone is produced vi thermal dehydrstion isn't some new and genius move - or indeed a genius calculation:
Sittig & Marshal, Pharmaceutical Manufacturing Encyclopedia, Vol 2, p 969, 2nd Ed.
Brit. Pat. 843,073 - example 2
The exact procedures are listed above. Now I admit I missed it, but then I'm not in a labe wirh Reaxys.
Someone else CLEARLY worked out the likely mechanism which is fine - but unless you were familiar with his style, it WOULD misrepresent min as the person who did the hard work and make no mistake, work went into that.
So once again - find as a journalist, not totally honest about who did what.
As I have said - as a journalist, he's OK. He writes to the style vice wants and I presume is paid.
So if he wished to interview someone (for money), is it unreasonable to suggest that the person being interviewed prints up his HUGE wad of trip reports and sells them or otherwise profits from them? You act like HM is doing the interviewee a favour.
If you weren't aware - journalists het paid.
It's also not that 1 person is making a point, but that again and again he distorts the truth which is the crime of crime for a journalist.
I hardly think a handful of people on a board 99.%% of internet won't even have heard of let alone seen equate to cancel culture. Nobody is attempting to place the information somewhere that his readers are likely to visit. Or is criticism cancelled? We ALL know he doesn't know even the basics of chemistry - find for a journalist but it seems like he infers that HE did all of the calculations, That's clearly misrepresentation.
But as I said - nobody is attempting to spread this so NO, it isn't cancel culture. We are not asking those would are incapable of seeing the information and making their own opinion is seeing it.
BTW his seeming AMAZING calculation of how methaqualone is produced vi thermal dehydrstion isn't some new and genius move - or indeed a genius calculation:
Sittig & Marshal, Pharmaceutical Manufacturing Encyclopedia, Vol 2, p 969, 2nd Ed.
Brit. Pat. 843,073 - example 2
The exact procedures are listed above. Now I admit I missed it, but then I'm not in a labe wirh Reaxys.
Someone else CLEARLY worked out the likely mechanism which is fine - but unless you were familiar with his style, it WOULD misrepresent min as the person who did the hard work and make no mistake, work went into that.
So once again - find as a journalist, not totally honest about who did what.
Imaginarium
Bluelighter
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Thanks for sharing.
An additional point of interest is that methaqualone is locally called "mandrax", which is also the trade name ("Mandrax") of a formulation containing methaqualone (250 mg) and diphenhydramine hydrochloride (25 mg) that was sold in the country up until 1971. Is diphenhydramine being added to currently available methaqualone tablets in South Africa's unregulated market? The jury is still out on this. There is some research that suggests a it could be (Van Zyl, 2001), because of diphenhydramine's inhibitory action on methaqualone metabolism (Hindmarsh, 1978). In 1993, Sher identified diazepam at 2 and 3 mg in two out of nine samples analysed (methaqualone quantified: 181 and 413 mg). Grove (2006)'s thesis was centered around method validation - but quantification of methaqualone and diphenhydramine (identified in 3 out of 4 samples from the unregulated market) should considerable variation in their concentrations.. The SAP Forensic Science Laboratory has some data (not publicly available) from analyses (using FTIR, UPLC and GC-MS) on seized samples, but more research is needed.
In South Africa, several local names are used to describe heroin, specifically Unga (Swahili for n: flour; v: to sprinkle) and the derivative "Whoonga", and "Nyaope" (Swahili for ‘be afraid’). They all refer to heroin.
In 2009, the Scientific American published a story claiming that efivarenz was being crushed and smoked by South African youth - without any credible evidence to support the claim. Reports point to a new drug called "whoonga", that contains ARVs.
This idea was then perpetuated in the academic literature, originating with Grelotti et al. (2013). In their study three (of 22) interviewees spontaneously mentioned ARVs as a component of a smoked drug "cocktail", though none reported personal use. In Rough et al. (2013), another qualitative study, eight (of 43) participants spontaneously discussed ARV use and diversion, though none reported personal use or explicit witnessing of others’ use. Larken et al. (2010) report that healthcare workers have heard that people are using ARVs, but again, no first-hand accounts. To date, only one scientific report explicitly contains a second-hand description of ARV use. No qualitative studies contain first-hand, researcher observed accounts of this.
Khine and Mokwena (2015), in their analysis of 40 samples in a specific geographic location identified trace amounts of either efavirenz or zidovudine, in 3 samples. But this study and all subsequent research is extremely poor, with weak and inappropriate methods used. In Durban, eight "whoonga" samples were chemically analyzed, six by a rehabilitation center director and two by an academic at a local university. Efavirenz was not identified in any of the eight samples. I haven't seen the details of these analyses, but again small sample size to make a confident claim. In a radio interview, and in the Vice documentary, the academic makes a claim that they identified "strychnine" - another unfounded claim.
The misinformation above has real harms for people who use drugs in the country.
In South Africa, most N-acetyl anthranilic acid is sourced from India. Synthesis of methaqualone occurs within our borders and beyond, with sources identified in southern Africa, the middle-east, south and central Asia.
An additional point of interest is that methaqualone is locally called "mandrax", which is also the trade name ("Mandrax") of a formulation containing methaqualone (250 mg) and diphenhydramine hydrochloride (25 mg) that was sold in the country up until 1971. Is diphenhydramine being added to currently available methaqualone tablets in South Africa's unregulated market? The jury is still out on this. There is some research that suggests a it could be (Van Zyl, 2001), because of diphenhydramine's inhibitory action on methaqualone metabolism (Hindmarsh, 1978). In 1993, Sher identified diazepam at 2 and 3 mg in two out of nine samples analysed (methaqualone quantified: 181 and 413 mg). Grove (2006)'s thesis was centered around method validation - but quantification of methaqualone and diphenhydramine (identified in 3 out of 4 samples from the unregulated market) should considerable variation in their concentrations.. The SAP Forensic Science Laboratory has some data (not publicly available) from analyses (using FTIR, UPLC and GC-MS) on seized samples, but more research is needed.
Antiretrovirals (ARVs), in particular efavirenz and zidovudine, are not consistently being used to adulterate heroin in South Africa. Media articles and research published in academic journals have generated public fear and misinformation. This has had real-life consequences for people who use drugs in South Africa. I'll briefly explain how this came about, below.
In South Africa, several local names are used to describe heroin, specifically Unga (Swahili for n: flour; v: to sprinkle) and the derivative "Whoonga", and "Nyaope" (Swahili for ‘be afraid’). They all refer to heroin.
In 2009, the Scientific American published a story claiming that efivarenz was being crushed and smoked by South African youth - without any credible evidence to support the claim. Reports point to a new drug called "whoonga", that contains ARVs.
This idea was then perpetuated in the academic literature, originating with Grelotti et al. (2013). In their study three (of 22) interviewees spontaneously mentioned ARVs as a component of a smoked drug "cocktail", though none reported personal use. In Rough et al. (2013), another qualitative study, eight (of 43) participants spontaneously discussed ARV use and diversion, though none reported personal use or explicit witnessing of others’ use. Larken et al. (2010) report that healthcare workers have heard that people are using ARVs, but again, no first-hand accounts. To date, only one scientific report explicitly contains a second-hand description of ARV use. No qualitative studies contain first-hand, researcher observed accounts of this.
Khine and Mokwena (2015), in their analysis of 40 samples in a specific geographic location identified trace amounts of either efavirenz or zidovudine, in 3 samples. But this study and all subsequent research is extremely poor, with weak and inappropriate methods used. In Durban, eight "whoonga" samples were chemically analyzed, six by a rehabilitation center director and two by an academic at a local university. Efavirenz was not identified in any of the eight samples. I haven't seen the details of these analyses, but again small sample size to make a confident claim. In a radio interview, and in the Vice documentary, the academic makes a claim that they identified "strychnine" - another unfounded claim.
The misinformation above has real harms for people who use drugs in the country.
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AlsoTapered
Bluelighter
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Yeah - people don't KNOW so they still add the 25mg of diphenhydramine. I don't know if it makes any difference. But that the makers STILL add it suggests it has an effect. No in any reference... but these people KNOW.
I totally get people who have so few skills to get a job doing this. As long as the users KNOW this is how it's made (and I think they do) then it's informed choice.
That the west finds is AWEFUL is of no import. HM found a rich vein of uncharted chemistry. Job done.
I totally get people who have so few skills to get a job doing this. As long as the users KNOW this is how it's made (and I think they do) then it's informed choice.
That the west finds is AWEFUL is of no import. HM found a rich vein of uncharted chemistry. Job done.