Using salvia other than smoking (For a beginner)

[BrightDown77]

Hi this is my first post and my first thread. I was looking into taking salvia, however from the research I have done I am more interested in ingesting like the quid or mazatec methods (chewing it and/or ingesting) as the effects last longer. True they may not be as intense but I prefer the idea of ingesting and it is not convenient for me to smoke it and be in a perfect environment. So I was wondering if anyone had done either of these ways or knows any similar effective methods (besides smoking) and if it is worth it? If I were to buy it i would most likely buy just plain leaves and if anyone could recommend a dose? (How many grams or leaves). I have experience with other drugs and psychedelics and have an open mind about this drug despite people i know not enjoying it and would love your guys advice!

 

[Shaal]

I think you'll find most of your answers here

And here -> methods of use.

Brushing your teeths and mouth beforehand is a good idea.
Also check this out, people have been trying to potentiate buccal use by using menthol mouthwash, and more rarely chili peppers.

Interesting information btw: "Capsaicin does not actually cause a chemical burn, or indeed any direct tissue damage at all, when chili peppers are the source of exposure. The inflammation resulting from exposure to capsaicin is believed to be the result of the body's reaction to nerve excitement." (source).

 

[BrightDown77]

Thanks for the info! Im gonna do more research and hopefully over the summer try both methods and report back on what they were like

 

[Shaal]

Yes let us know, I want to try the buccal administration as well

 

[RhythmSpring]

You can make a tea, too. The idea is the same as the quid--it's still absorbed buccally. You just hold the water in your mouth a long time before swallowing each spoonful.

 

[Shaal]

I'm not sure water will extract the salvinorin A well enough... less polar solvents such as ethanol or acetone are usually used. I personnaly wouldn't go for the tea. But you could make an alcoholic tincture (the highest alcohol proof the best IMO).

Such as here.

 

[pupnik]

not sure if this link will show up... http://www.shroomery.org/forums/download.php?Number=17507542
which links into a document I created with Sphere, related to extraction and the creation of tiny smokable cigarette papers. each one equivalent to 20 leaves but way easier to chew.
but I only smoke them, chewing is such a waste, and in this form the material combusts in less than a second so you have very little smoke to process in your lungs.
lungs are way more efficient
also if just starting you may like to review http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/4098635

enjoy,
relax,
be informed,
play safely

 

[Shaal]

Pupnik I think I know what you're talking about! IIRC remember pictures were included, am I right?

 

[pupnik]

yes the first link is full of extraction and crystalization pix. IIRC, the extraction is ethanol but I had preferred acetone for efficiency.

 

[BrightDown77]

Wow information overload! What do you think about making the drink using milk? Do you think that would be more effective than water? From what ive read so far sublingual seems to be an appealing option.

 

[Shaal]

Wow information overload! What do you think about making the drink using milk? Do you think that would be more effective than water? From what ive read so far sublingual seems to be an appealing option.

I've thought about using milk, and I think it would be much more effective than water for extraction. You would extract the salv. A the same way you extract the THC when making weed milk. Cow milk has around 87% water, but extracts non-polar compounds thanks to the fatty acids it contains. Solipsis thinks it could also help with the buccal absorption.

Coming back on the water VS. ethanol / acetone for extraction: salvinorin A has a positive log P (1,82). Log P is an estimate of the non-polar to water solubility ratio. If an aqueous and non-polar organic phase are in contact, there is an equilibrium between the salv. A dissolved in each phase, although salv. A will favor the non-polar phase. So it will favor a less polar solvent (such as ethanol or acetone) VS. water. I wouldn't even try water.

So yes I think milk extraction followed by buccal absorption (30 minutes in mouth seems the common practice) could be a good idea, we have to try and see. It's in my list of experimentations, however I don't have the materials needed right now.

 

[pupnik]

the absorption surface of the gut is much less than of the lungs.
you need to absorb the salvinorin within 90 seconds. what was absorbed 90 seconds ago is already being metabolized off the receptors.
that is why a quid is ~30-50 times the quantity as a smoked dose.
it becomes a matter of consuming vast quantities of salvia in order to get off on an oral dose.
not so much what it is soluble in (even siebert's tincture - which is painfully strong alcohol, has massive amounts of salvinorin in a single dose)

the effect of this drug is totally dependent upon how much enters the blood in a short finite time (it takes 90 seconds till you are stoned when you smoke it which is the fastest ROI)

 

[Solipsis]

I'm curious if surfactants like HPBCD would work well... gonna need to grow a hell of a lot more salvia to yield a decent amount of salvinorin though

 

[BrightDown77]

So yes I think milk extraction followed by buccal absorption (30 minutes in mouth seems the common practice) could be a good idea, we have to try and see. It's in my list of experimentations, however I don't have the materials needed right now.

Yeah I have alot of experiences planned in the pipeline, which im really hoping to do in the coming months

 

[pupnik]

I'm curious if surfactants like HPBCD would work well... gonna need to grow a hell of a lot more salvia to yield a decent amount of salvinorin though

even dmso AND acetone were not that effective for tincture's unless you use 10mg Salvinorin which is more than 10 times the usual smoked dose.
again there just is no convenient way to get threashold absorption within 90 seconds using a moderate amount and oral/buccal absorption.
https://www.erowid.org/plants/salvia/salvia_article1.pdf

 

[moviefx]

Hi this is my first post and my first thread. I was looking into taking salvia, however from the research I have done I am more interested in ingesting like the quid or mazatec methods (chewing it and/or ingesting) as the effects last longer. True they may not be as intense but I prefer the idea of ingesting and it is not convenient for me to smoke it and be in a perfect environment. So I was wondering if anyone had done either of these ways or knows any similar effective methods (besides smoking) and if it is worth it? If I were to buy it i would most likely buy just plain leaves and if anyone could recommend a dose? (How many grams or leaves). I have experience with other drugs and psychedelics and have an open mind about this drug despite people i know not enjoying it and would love your guys advice!

I have experience with salvia quids. I took a fresh leaf or two from a plant I was growing and balled them up and put them in my mouth and held them next to my cheek. I laid down and drank the juices in my mouth. I kept the quid in my mouth until after a while I eventually chewed and swallowed the leaves. It was a light and calm experience. It was very relaxing and peaceful/spiritual. I had a great body high and a gentle reflective mind state. It felt really good. I also have experience smoking dried salvia leaves. I think the quid method gives a smoother body high. I hope you have fun.

 

[onetwocatpoo]

The problem with Salvia is the fact that it smells like shit though D: it isn't the nicest smelling/tasting substance

 

[BrightDown77]

I have experience with salvia quids. I took a fresh leaf or two from a plant I was growing and balled them up and put them in my mouth and held them next to my cheek. I laid down and drank the juices in my mouth. I kept the quid in my mouth until after a while I eventually chewed and swallowed the leaves. It was a light and calm experience. It was very relaxing and peaceful/spiritual. I had a great body high and a gentle reflective mind state. It felt really good. I also have experience smoking dried salvia leaves. I think the quid method gives a smoother body high. I hope you have fun.

Hi thanks for sharing your experience it gives good insight into what seems an much less popular method. I plan on using it as a light introspective/meditation tool and the high you described definitely sounds like what im looking for. I've been away recently and will be away for a couple more weeks but after i will be buying some dried leaves (All I can get) and try smoking it to see what it is like, then I will try various methods and hopefully report back sometime next month!

 

[moviefx]

Hi thanks for sharing your experience it gives good insight into what seems an much less popular method. I plan on using it as a light introspective/meditation tool and the high you described definitely sounds like what im looking for. I've been away recently and will be away for a couple more weeks but after i will be buying some dried leaves (All I can get) and try smoking it to see what it is like, then I will try various methods and hopefully report back sometime next month!

You're welcome. That sounds great. One time I was laying in bed calmly petting my dog in the evening and thinking slowly; it was very relaxing. I think you're gonna enjoy it.

From this webpage -> http://salvia-divinorum.com/salvia-faq-doses.html

Q. How many doses are in one ounce of dried Salvia leaves when using the quid method of ingestion?
A: A dose using the quid method is generally believed to be between 2-10 grams of dried leaf material, depending on the strength of effects you are after. It is best to rehydrate the leaves with a little water for 5-10 minutes before chewing them.


General Quid-Chewing Guidelines
1 ounce of dried leaf will give you:

• 14 light doses (each dose being 2g)
• 5 moderate doses (each dose being 6g)
• 3 strong doses (each dose being 10g)

 

[Bagseed]

^ how much would be a dose in fresh leaves? I recently purchased a Salvia clone, and I think about trying to chew some leaves, when the plant has become big enough to harvest some..