Stimulants ~Unsolved Mystery: A love/hate relationship w/ Adderall~ All input welcome! Plz Help!

[xXMorphineXx]

Where to begin...

When I was in college about 4 years ago I was introduced to Adderall, at that time the only drugs I did were smoking weed and dropping acid. Adderall was the first "hard drug" I ever tried and as it does to most people, it make me feel on top of the world. Like I was the f***ing man. Very talkative and felt empathy towards people. I knew a girl that would give me the brand name 25mg XR's and I would crush up the beads and snort the whole thing. I used it for many months, sometimes for weeks not skipping a day. It never lost its magic. When I was kicked out of school obviously my use of it stopped completely.

Fast forward till now, I will fill in all drug experiences to give as much detail so maybe I can finally figure this out.

After I got kicked out I got heavy into opiates and ended up a IV heroin addict, only recently have I been sober (I am currently and have been totally clean and on a LEGITIMATE prescription of sub for about a month). I was a fiend, to briefly describe my habit.

Over this summer I had met someone I could get Adderall off of, and knowing how it use to make me feel I jumped at the opportunity. This person had the same exact pill that I knew and loved, the brand name 25mg XR. I purchased 5 of them, which I thought would last me for a decent amount of time. I crushed up the beads and railed a whole capsule...30 minutes later...nothing, maybe a slight increase in heart rate but none of the effects I was seeking. After railing all 5 of them for a grand total of 125mg (Over a period of what would be equal to about half a day) I was so disappointed. I could not understand why it had no effect. I had been on suboxone at this time, just thought I'd include that, I do not believe that Suboxone would affect any action of the amphetamine's in Adderall.

Someone who was with me knew that I was very aggravated that I did not feel a thing and she was spun off 1 of them. So the next day she brought me some generic 10mg Ritalin, I crushed up 4 of them at first and railed the line. BAAMMMMMM!!!! I was experiencing all the effects that I was looking for in the Adderall. I was so very confused. As I am very well educated in the chemistry and pharmacology of a lot of recreational prescription drugs, knowing that Methylphenidate although having a different mechanism of action, was far less potent than Adderall. I ended up getting pretty hooked on the Ritalin as my source had a huge supply from a childhood of not taking them. I ended up at the very end IV'ing them, which is a whole trip report on its own...

Today I am diagnosed ADHD (Let me describe exactly what I mean so there is no confusion, I pretty much told my doctor I thought I had it) and was prescribed 2, 30mg Adderall (Generic) IR's a day. The first time I took it I got some desired effects but nothing close to how it use to make me feel, and a HUGE NUMBER of bad effects. Rapid heartbeat, insomnia, decreased libido, fidgety. Everything you would expect from a stimulant with none of the positive effects. I have gotten my prescription filled twice now and have gotten different brands each time. The first time I received Barr Laboratories generic and this most recent time I received Sandoz generic. I have done plenty of research on Adderall and its generic counterparts and know that different generic's of the same exact prescription can cause vastly different effects in different people. And through my research have gained a general consensus that the two different kinds of generic I received are the most desired (Favorite) of all the generics, supposedly having the least side effects and most positive effect.

My whole point to this post is to ask a question that has been literally eating away at me for some time now:

What would cause such a drastic change in the way Adderall effects me from being the best high I had ever experienced to not even wanting to take my RX in fear of the side effects. I tried to supply as much information about what has changed/happened between the different experiences. I do not know if any substances I abused would cause a change in the way Adderall works. Does heroin have anything to do with it? Could it possible rewire my brain to where it and only it would ever give me such an amazing feeling? I do not know, that is why I am HOPING someone on here has had a similar experience or knows something that I do not and could shed some light...

Thank you in advance...yea I'm on my prescription right now. This is how I am feeling:

Hands are very cold (Common vasoconstriction)
My chest kinda feels tight (Common, I do not worry about it as much as I first did)
Mouth is very dry
I cannot stop bouncing in my chair, I am definitely stimulated but...Not in the way I want.

Also if you could provide any tips for me to say to my doctor about maybe trying a different medication?
I was thinking about asking to try dexedrine as it only include the CNS Stimulant dextro-amphetamine, with confidence I can say that the negative effects I am experiencing for the most part are because of the PNS Stimulant levo-amphetamine. Any input would be much appreciated!

Also if you have any general comments feel free to ask! Maybe you wanna ask why my doctor prescribed the highest mg of a schedule 2 drug to a patient whose never been treated for ADHD thus 'never" (legally at least) been on a strong Stimulant. I have a hard time believing it myself lol...

I really hope with the help of the community I can figure this mystery out.

Thanks again, I hope this wasn't too difficult to read or understand.

 

[i are spectre]

I know that when I am not properly hydrated or well-fed, adderall's side effects are much more prominent.

It may be tolerance as well, but I am willing to bet something else is affecting you as well. You said for months there was no issues at all and suddenly these come about.

What has changed...? Dose? You are now taking buprenorphine which has side effects of its own which may be amplified by the adderall. Also mark your eating/drinking habits. Drink plenty of fluids and electrolytes hours and hours before dosing adderall. I make it a point to eat very large and healthy meals before dosing, not to mention a gallon of water prior and spread out through the day.

Id say more water, better food, better sleep, lower the bupe dose, and a lot of those negative feelings may go away or at least not be as severe.

Oh yes, and exercise. Exercise will boost the neurotransmitters than you are burning through on adderall.

Good luck mate, tell me how it goes...

 

[xXMorphineXx]

I really appreciate the response. You have a very good point, my eating habits have become terrible, so has my sleeping schedule. Which, your right, is probably contributing to the nasty side effects I am experiencing. I try to eat before I dose because after I do food is the last thing on my mind. I try to drink a lot of water during the day and Gatorade or powerade when I have it for the electrolytes.
I do appreciate the response and I will speak more in depth to my doctor about what is happening. I have done a lot of research that suggests I would be better suited for dexedrine or some other form of just the d isomer of amphetamine.

Although what you have answered is important to me, the big mystery for me is why Adderall has "lost its magic" so to say. Since starting my Adderall prescription I have yet to get any of the effects I use to get back in 2007 when I was abusing it, not even the first dose I took.

I will try and explain my situation again but with fewer more direct words:

Back in 2007 I abused Adderall heavily and got the euphoric, talkative, on top of the world feelings every time that I would use it. There was never a time I would take it and not feel anything.

There was a gap where I didn't touch it, from about the end of 2007 till summer of 2011 where I was reintroduced to it by a friend who had the same exact pills I use to abuse.

When I did them this time though (summer of 2011) I did not get any effects, none whatsoever. So I do not believe tolerance could be the culprit because, that's almost 4 years without touching it or anything related to it.

The only thing that was different from when I first used it in 2007 (When it worked really well) to recently in the summer of 2011 (Did not work at all) and now being RX'd it was I have gone through a 4 year heroin addiction. And I was taking Suboxone during the summer of 2011.

It doesn't make sense to me that Suboxone would cause what I am experiencing, and I've been on Suboxone on and off for almost a year now and have never had any sort of side effect to it. Currently I take 2, 8mg Films a day and do not use any other psychoactive substance besides obviously what I am RX'd.

My first thought was that my frequent use of heroin somehow changed my brain chemistry and the Adderall is not able to work as it should because of destroyed neural pathways and perhaps depleted amounts of dopamine in my brain. It to me sounds like a solid theory but I do not know enough about the effects of heroin on brain chemistry or exactly how Adderall works in the brain to be certain that is the cause. And although it has a different mode of action, I'm sure Methylphenidate (Ritalin) works with the same neurotransmitters in the brain as Amphetamines do, which would make this theory invalid because as I mentioned in the OP the Ritalin I used gave me the effects that the Adderall use to give me, the euphoria and being talkative and all that good stuff.

To make it a plain and simple question though: Why doesn't Adderall work the way it use to, it is not tolerance because I hadn't touched it in years before I was reintroduced this past summer (2011). And why does Ritalin work if Adderall does not, Adderall is a lot stronger than Ritalin.

Hope this makes a little more sense.

 

[Tommyboy]

You hit the tri-fecta with me. I used to get positive effects from adderall in college, but no longer do, I have been prescribed suboxone while taking it, and I am now prescribed d-amp.

Right off the bat I think you can rule out that suboxone is messing with the effects. Switching to dexedrine didn't make that much of a difference to me. I did get less jaw clenching and other minor side effects, but even though the high is "cleaner" I think I may prefer the adderall, but that is completely subjective, and many people favor dexedrine over adderall.

I used to use adderall very randomly, and never used more than 12 20mg pills in a semester, so my tolerance wasn't high. After graduating I got an adderall prescription, then after a month I got it switched to dexedrine due to supply issues. I went from thinking that it was such a great drug in college, to actually not getting my prescription filled recently, and giving away half of another script. I attribute it to the overall mindset we are in when we take the drug. When I was carefree and didn't have many worries in college, adderall was awesome. Senior year was full of stress so when I took it I didn't enjoy it as much. Now, things aren't so great, so I barely get anything from the drug. It's a drug that makes you concentrate more, so if there isn't much good stuff to concentrate on, it's kinda shitty.

 

[xXMorphineXx]

Well even though it did not answer my question, I am so happy that you posted! Knowing that at least someone else knows what I am saying and more, they have been through the same thing. Isn't it a mind boggling mystery!?!?! It doesn't make a bit of sense to me ha. And its been tormenting me for months and months. Its really quite a let down, how did switching to Dexedrine affect you? I feel that most of the side effects I am experiencing are from the levo isomer of amphetamine as they seem to lean towards the PNS. I wanted to talk to my doctor about switching to pure d-amphetamine but am nervous now because if the dextro isomer isn't having much effect on me in the Adderall than it would lead me to believe that Dexedrine would not produce any effects whatsoever. I am thinking of trying to get switched to Ritalin or Focalin which seem to have a better effect on me than Adderall.

I have really gotten to the point where I don't even want to take my Adderall anymore because the side effects far outweigh any benefit (If any) from it.

Its just absolutely crazy to me, how something could work so damn well and then just stop. I have never experienced this anomaly with any other psychoactive.

I really wanted to try to get a script for Desoxyn as it has just recently went generic and my insurance covers it, I am planning on bringing it up at my next visit but am kind of nervous as I don't want to mess up my good relationship with my doctor. He is a psychiatrist and a sub doctor so I get both of my scripts from him. It was very very easy to get a prescription for Adderall though so in the back of my head I think there is a chance I could get it.

Its just so annoying that people my age absolutely love Adderall and get all the good effects but cannot get prescribed it, and I'm lucky enough to be able to get it but it makes me feel like crap.

I wonder if there is anything I (we) could try to maybe try and restore some of the lost neurotransmitters as someone comments about earlier. I have also read that dopamine is replenished during sleep, something that I have been getting very little of lately, and obviously dopamine is the transmitter that induces the euphoria.

I am going to try a little experiment and post back with the results. I am going to try and lay off the Adderall for a couple days and then see what that may do. Its worth a shot at this point because its sad but really the only reason I continue to take the Adderall is because I do not want to go through the awful withdrawal that comes with it. It be cool to figure out exactly why this is happening to us though. I'd like to keep this thread alive and hopefully it will be answered by someone who has some advanced drug chemistry knowledge.

Again thank you so much for posting, its good to know that its not just me.

 

[Ohayou]

I noticed that when I took Adderall (and everything else too, including ethanol) while on buprenorphine, the effects were never the same, always worse. I feel that buprenorphine blocks the euphoric effects from all drugs, as that seemed to be the case for me. It could be something else causing this entirely, but I think the bupe may be related.

 

[jshmut]

Dude I read most of your post and then skimmed to the bottom.(no offense) but I was prescribed aderall for 6 years before all my other drug habits started up quite similar to yours actually. I currently go on opiate binges (IVed)... but long story short, I think its like any kind of drug. The first time you do it will always be the best and you can never achieve the same effect you first experienced because of the simple fact that you had never felt anything like it the first time you did it.

 

[GOM]

I would recommend a low-dose benzodiazepine in parallel to the Adderall. I have taken the duo for almost 5 years. The Clonazepam knocks out many side-effects and also allows me to eat after I crash.

I would love to post more, and I hope to do so soon. I'm out of the house right now. I'll subscribe to this thread and return.

 

[xXMorphineXx]

You think that would really help with the side effects?? I know of a couple people who also take a benzodiazepine with there stimulant medication. My only worry though is I have been prescribed klonopin before for my bad anxiety and when I started seeing this particular doctor he didn't make me, but suggested that I try and totally get off the klonopin as he does not like to mix benzo's with suboxone. I was taken off my klonopin when I told my PCP that I was starting a suboxone program, she pretty much just told me she is not a psychiatrist and wants to leave the prescribing to the suboxone doctor because she does not know much about suboxone and its different interactions.

I have an appointment every two weeks with my sub doctor, my next one is 15th of this month (Suboxone can only be prescribed for a max of 30 days and in my clinic you have to work your way up to that by passing your piss tests taken every week, lets just say I haven't had a good track record with that. But ever since starting the Adderall I have had ABSOLUTELY no cravings for anything else, it even makes me not wanna smoke cigarettes which is weird). I will talk to my doctor about what I can possibly do about either switching stimulants or adding another medication to counteract some of the side effects. I also want to bring up Desoxyn to him, I have been doing a TON of research on all different types of stimulant ADHD medications and have found that although there is a terrible stigma attached to Desoxyn, those who take it say that it has changed there life. There are a couple things I have found to really like about it, it does not have a high affinity for norepinephrine so it wont have all the bad PNS effects like Adderall, and unlike almost all other stimulant medications it also releases Serotonin which I think would benefit me greatly because along with my ADHD I have been diagnosed with depression. I will also point out to him that people that have abused both Adderall and Desoxyn say that Adderall BY FAR is more recreational and "fun", as Desoxyn only comes in 5mg tablets.

I appreciate all of the responses greatly! If ya'll are interested I will definitely update this thread as often as I can. And will for sure update after my appointment on Wednesday!

Again, thank you all so much for the input!!! It has really helped and has made me feel more normal lol that I'm not alone in all this!

THANKS!!!

 

[FreshPerspective]

I've taken Adderall on and off for 5 years. I don't want it anymore. I would at first feel great. But after a while I lost the speedy motivation after doing the same tasks over and over. I think that might be due to the fact that I wasn't doing what I really wanted to do, which was socialize normally with my peers (I had BAD social anxiety), so my attitude would get really screwed up. I think Adderall is an evil drug. There are days I wish I never took that first orange pill.

 

[xXMorphineXx]

I know what you mean, I'm 100% positive I suffer from social anxiety...Its one of the biggest reasons I turned to drugs in the first place, because when I'm high I can talk to people and have a good time. It's one of the reasons I wanted to try Adderall, among others. But it seems it actually does the complete opposite, it makes me really "on-edge" and irritable and just makes me want to hide in my room and not talk to anyone. It sucks...And now I feel I'm caught in an evil cycle because I don't wanna feel like this anymore but if I stop taking it I feel even worse and all I want to do is sleep which is just not an option.

I am really eager to get back to my doctor and hopefully work towards a solution. I haven't done anything social since new years eve...

 

[Keweanna]

Ok I'm new here but I was on suboxone for three years , opiates for five , I took an adderall once while on the suboxone not too long ago and loved it and only needed a tiny dose and then never did it again after that and five weeks ago stopped taking suboxone for the sake of my sanity ( that's a whole thee story and suboxone is bad in my opinion ) but the try and fight the fatigue and loss of happiness from stopping thought hey maybe adderall would work and tried it and I kept taking more and more because I wouldn't feel anything except the annoying sweaty hands and a little body fuzz lol and but after getting to really high doses my anxiety was way to much to handle and have been searching and searching on the Internet as to why this is happenening and it's beyond frustrating because I have tried Ritalin which put me to sleep and vyvanse which barely did anything and adderall xr and ir . I'm beyond frustrated and know its not the suboxone that makes it ineffective cause I was starting to think it made it work better. Oh and before that one experience I never touched adderall . Sorry if this message is confusing its on my phone , but I'm glad I found someone like me after people thought I was nuts , I was starting to think maybe my brain was seriously damaged and maybe that is the case .

 

[Keweanna]

I don't know how this forum works but I think this is an old thread sorry ..

 

[Morphine Analyst]

Does anyone know anything about Vivan, I think it's spelled... get you high?