Two days off the bupe - will I feel heroine, or are benzos better?

[Båtmannen]

Hello

I have been shooting bupe. 20 mg, every day for more than a year. Last dose was friday morning, and now I am without. I'm starting to feel the withdrawal in my stomach now (sunday evening), and if I'm not able to get my hands om legal bupe tomorrow, I'll enter the seventh hell.

Since bupe blocks other opiates, I'm wondering whether to buy heroine or bensodiazepines tomorrow. Will I be able to feel H at all, or is it a waste of money? I'm considerig methadone, as well.

 

[Lorne???]

Buprenorphine has a t1/2 of 3-4 hours IV, so do whatever you want-dope/other opioids will work, although 29ng is silly

Sorry, man, doing bupe more than 8-12mg IV per day, is pretty much pointless, it is a partial agonist with a ceiling effect

So cut your dose, your just getting extra unwanted side effects and possibly kappa receptor antagonism-with no further Mu action

Remember IV may hold awhile(especially at those doses) though it is still eliminated exponentially faster than SL; of course, peak plasma levels are 10-15x higher-so days later full wd(worse than sublingual, IMHO) and other opioids work, often just fine-and Please don't mix opioids and benzodiazepines if at all possible or unless tolerant to bith
Seriously, less is more with bupe, you will feel better if you heed the advice of a Tanuki (probably)

 

[Båtmannen]

Buprenorphine has a t1/2 of 3-4 hours IV, so do whatever you want-dope/other opioids will work, although 29ng is silly

Sorry, man, doing bupe more than 8-12mg IV per day, is pretty much pointless, it is a partial agonist with a ceiling effect

So cut your dose, your just getting extra unwanted side effects and possibly kappa receptor antagonism-with no further Mu action

Remember IV may hold awhile(especially at those doses) though it is still eliminated exponentially faster than SL; of course, peak plasma levels are 10-15x higher-so days later full wd(worse than sublingual, IMHO) and other opioids work, often just fine-and Please don't mix opioids and benzodiazepines if at all possible or unless tolerant to bith
Seriously, less is more with bupe, you will feel better if you heed the advice of a Tanuki (probably)

I hear you, and I've read the study myself, showing quite short half-life for bupe IV.

BUT ... how is it possible that even today, I wasn't yet in a severe withdrawal? I had stomach pain, sweated like a pig, and was anxious, but nothing like what it could (would ...) have been. If the HL is only a few hours, one should barely be able to go one day without, and now I was still OK after 72 horus.

 

[Lorne???]

It's complicated. Buprenorphine had a receptor dissociation t1/2 of 3-4 minutes, morphine is. supposedly in th range of several seconds

Also, those are absurd doses; if you did <4mg per day wd would set in faster

Also buprenorphine is a partial agonist, everyone is different blah

Point is, you may not get severe wd symptoms from bupe I have from paranteral, however some have mild -moderate wd from buprenorphine, which is supposed to be partially be why it is used in ORT, and also the only strong opioid still used at Schedule 3(although personally think this is the ceiling effect; 300 micrograms/ml is the dose range for IV/Im Buprenex(pure injectable buprenorphine) and Sublingual forms are available in microgram doses, yet more than 8-12mg per day is kind of a cap off
Weird medication -effective though (Remember Valium has a Duration of 3-3 hours, despite t1/2 of 20-50 hours)

 

[Båtmannen]

Buprenorphine has a t1/2 of 3-4 hours IV, so do whatever you want-dope/other opioids will work, although 29ng is silly

Sorry, man, doing bupe more than 8-12mg IV per day, is pretty much pointless, it is a partial agonist with a ceiling effect

So cut your dose, your just getting extra unwanted side effects and possibly kappa receptor antagonism-with no further Mu action

Remember IV may hold awhile(especially at those doses) though it is still eliminated exponentially faster than SL; of course, peak plasma levels are 10-15x higher-so days later full wd(worse than sublingual, IMHO) and other opioids work, often just fine-and Please don't mix opioids and benzodiazepines if at all possible or unless tolerant to bith
Seriously, less is more with bupe, you will feel better if you heed the advice of a Tanuki (probably)

I hear you, and I've read the study myself, showing quite short half-life for bupe IV.

BUT ... how is it possible that even today, I wasn't yet in a severe withdrawal? I had stomach pain, sweated like a pig, and was anxious, but nothing like what it could (would ...) have been. If the HL is only a few hours, one should barely be able to go one day without, and now I was still more OK than dead after 72 horus.

 

[Lorne???]

^ It’s a partial agonist; it isn’t like coming off of H man-and those doses are literally 200x the recommended dose- it may not get much worse, or, if your injecting 20mg+ per day, maybe it saturated first pass to an extent, or maybe you are accidentally on an inhibitor?

A lot of variables, be confounded a bit, better yet surprised, yet thankful

 

[Båtmannen]

^ It’s a partial agonist; it isn’t like coming off of H man-and those doses are literally 200x the recommended dose- it may not get much worse, or, if your injecting 20mg+ per day, maybe it saturated first pass to an extent, or maybe you are accidentally on an inhibitor?

A lot of variables, be confounded a bit, better yet surprised, yet thankful

No inhibitor.

So what (the bolded) ... I could just go from IVing 20 mg of bupe (24 now) and just go cold turkey and be fine, not getting sick?

 

[Lorne???]

^ Yiu said you are having mild symptoms, they may not get much worse-yes, that was point

However, less is more with bupe, and if you were IV'ing say, ~7mg per day max, and cold turkey'ed, it would actually be worse, because instead of just suppressing wd, it gives some full agonist effects, with less Kappa antagonism

Remember that, buprenorphine is technically a mixed partial agonist/antagonist; and at lower doses it produces a semi-active metabolite, nor buprenorphine, which is a full agonist, though itt has CNS trouble anyway, and at large doses it is simply blocked; however at more modest doses, it may play a role; it used to be a big part of the less is more theory-though the relevance is that withdrawal from bupe and a low dose full agonist could be worse

And lower doses do not fully antagonize Kappa opioid receptors, which compounds the issue, and again, could make wd more intense with lower, and surprisingly more effective* doses-anyway, be thankful your not sick, I guess

 

[Båtmannen]

^ Yiu said you are having mild symptoms, they may not get much worse-yes, that was point

However, less is more with bupe, and if you were IV'ing say, ~7mg per day max, and cold turkey'ed, it would actually be worse, because instead of just suppressing wd, it gives some full agonist effects, with less Kappa antagonism

Remember that, buprenorphine is technically a mixed partial agonist/antagonist; and at lower doses it produces a semi-active metabolite, nor buprenorphine, which is a full agonist, though itt has CNS trouble anyway, and at large doses it is simply blocked; however at more modest doses, it may play a role; it used to be a big part of the less is more theory-though the relevance is that withdrawal from bupe and a low dose full agonist could be worse

And lower doses do not fully antagonize Kappa opioid receptors, which compounds the issue, and again, could make wd more intense with lower, and surprisingly more effective* doses-anyway, be thankful your not sick, I guess

Alot of people have told me bupe WD is worse than H. Mainly because of they duration, but I know people who have gotten seizures going off sub and others who have been bedridden for a month because of the severe WD.

And your post doesn't make 100 % sense. Yes, bupe blocks itself, but as the levels in the blody lowers, it will eventually hit the level one would be at with 7 mg / day, and should then go into that worse withdrawal at that time.


I think I'll make a thread about this on another forum. Obviously I wont give the source and obviously I won't quote word for word. I'm not saying you're lying - I know you're not. It justs sounds weird to me and I have to ask around. This is OK I preassume?