tripping after serotonin toxicity?

[headfuck123]

So in August I had an episode of serotonin toxicity. I had all the symptoms of serotonin syndrome without the seizures which is why im not claiming to have had full on serotonin syndrome. I suffered quite a bit the following few months with the lingering symptoms like anxiety, feelings of impending doom, strange head pressure and general uncomfortable feelings throughout my nervous system. My symptoms have gradually started to fade after I started eating better and exercising, Im able to smoke weed without problems now where as before it would bring back all the horrible sensations of serotonin syndrome.

Anyway my question is are there any psychs that would be less risky for me? I understand that any serotonin releaser are probably out of the question but what about the lysergimides? Are there any psychs that are a complete no no?

I will probably continue to stay away from any psychs for another couple months however i'm just wondering which psych would be best to reintroduce myself back into the beautiful world of psychedelia.

I understand that it is against the rules to make "what should i take?" threads but i'm just asking which psychs dont mess with the serotonin system as much. Also if anyone has first hand experience of tripping after serotonin sydrome/toxicity Id love to hear your story!

 

[Si Dread]

I understand that it is against the rules to make "what should i take?" threads but i'm just asking which psychs dont mess with the serotonin system as much. Also if anyone has first hand experience of tripping after serotonin sydrome/toxicity Id love to hear your story!

Perhaps a slight edit to ask which group of psyches might be less likely to further damage your serotonin system, but I suspect the mods will look kindly upon the thread under the circumstances.

I fucked up my serotonin system very badly by injudiciously using 5-mapb when it first appeared early in 2013. Everyone here has heard this story so, just the basics this time. I did not suffer Serotonin Syndrome but I was made very unwell for a week (bedridden by unbearable continuous brain zaps, nauseas, vertigo, vomitting, insomnia, depression, anxiety etc etc etc) & have taken pretty much 2 years to recover. I'm not certain I am entirely recovered & as such I have gradually moved away from all stims, particularly serotonergic stims.

But I have continued to take psychedelics from both the tryptamine & phenethylamine group, as well as Al-Lad & LSz without any due cause for concern. I am a layman, so if some clever bugger wants to tidy this up a bit, fine. The impression I get is that serotonergic psychedelics use the serotonin system to "piggy-back" into the brain rather than directly affecting it in the way that, say, MDMA or 5-mapb might. Obviously, it's considerably more compicated than that, but as a layman, that's accuarte enough for me. Clever folks can add detail to this or tear it to bits if they like. Layman, remember

I used 4-ho-met for a mild, 20mg-in-two-doses trip only a week or two after I recovered from the most acute symptoms of what I came to term as my ABzC event (Acute Brain zaps Crisis! lol). The trip was excellent &, somehow, 4-ho-met brought a week-long uplift to what had been some pretty depressed moods following my ABzC. The trip was exactly as expected, same duration, same effects which I'm extremely used to. Nothing about the damage I'd done to my serotonin system appeared to have any effect on the quality of my trip & it certainly had no effect on the usual antidepressant effects I feel after using a 4-subs tryptamine. I felt that tripping helped, to be honest.

In the last 24 months I have used Al-Lad & LSz on many occasions, I've had 2c-t-2, DOC & 4-ho-mipt/4-ho-met/4-ho-dmt, again without any obvious affect on my trips & with no lingering, unpleasant comedowns. The odd go in the first year or so on Methylone, 4-fa, MPA & any other stimulant brought lasting, dreadfully unpleasant comedown symtoms lastings weeks at least, & after a couple of those I knocked all stims on the head about 6 months ago. Their use definitely put my recovery back by weeks if not months.

So, in brief, you should be fine tripping & I recomend the 4 subs series as an excellent starting point.

Best of luck

 

[headfuck123]

Thanks for the reply Si Ingwe, its very reassuring! I had already decided I'll no longer partake in stims especially serotonergic ones like you said. Iv had years of fun with them and it doesnt bother me much to see them go. Im glad i will most likely be able to enjoy psychs again as they were my doc in the last few years. I was thinking of trying good ole LSD to reintroduce myself but now im thinking it might be too stimulating and long lasting. Glad you mentioned 4 subs as i have some 4aco-dmt which i love but i thought it would be more serotonergic then LSD (dont know the science of that, just a guess) but now that you mention it I can imagine it being a nicer intro back to psychs as it doesnt last as long and is less stimulating than lsd. As I said though in the name of good HR I'll wait another month or 2 before trying psychs again and il start with a low dose with the right setting etc.

And sorry to hear you had such a rough time of it with 5-mapb, brain zaps are fucking horrible!

 

[Si Dread]

Thanks for the reply Si Ingwe, its very reassuring!

And sorry to hear you had such a rough time of it with 5-mapb, brain zaps are fucking horrible!

No problem, & thanks very much I havent read of many brain zap experiences that sound worse than mine. They were un-fucking-bearable. Still, you live & learn (with any luck) & I have no-one to blame but myself after all.

4-ho-dmt is the 4-sub with which I have the least experience. I got a kindly 100mg free sample a few years ago & never used it all up. But I cannot see it having anything more serotonergic an action than 4-ho-met & in fact, the met might be more likely to have a serotonergic effect because it has a distinctly more recreational effect.

You should be fine but it's wise to go easy, accept a light trip the first time just in case & then you know you can let your hair down a bit the next time.

 

[Xorkoth]

I once abused MDMA quite heavily for a week and a half... coming out of it I also had brain zaps, I had clearly thrown my serotonin system off quite heavily (though serotonin syndrome was not a concern). The very next day after I started getting brain zaps, I decided to take a DOC trip, and it actually seemed to fix the issue somehow, I was left with a clear, beautiful peaceful euphoria for days and the brain zaps stopped. It really seemed to interrupt the negative side effects. I can't say I recommend that in your case as it sounds like you had a more severe issue, but I do think it illustrates how regular psychedelics (not releasers) are generally pretty safe to take.

 

[Si Dread]

I once abused MDMA quite heavily for a week and a half... coming out of it I also had brain zaps, I had clearly thrown my serotonin system off quite heavily (though serotonin syndrome was not a concern). The very next day after I started getting brain zaps, I decided to take a DOC trip, and it actually seemed to fix the issue somehow, I was left with a clear, beautiful peaceful euphoria for days and the brain zaps stopped. It really seemed to interrupt the negative side effects. I can't say I recommend that in your case as it sounds like you had a more severe issue, but I do think it illustrates how regular psychedelics (not releasers) are generally pretty safe to take.

Fascinating, but not that surprising really.

Think about folk with PTSD, Depression etc. If psychedelic drugs (& MDMA itself for that matter) can help rewire or reorganise the brain in people with these problems, then it's perfectly feasable that the same drugs can ease or even cure similar problems that have a differing cause but the same symptoms. For all we know, the damage for which brain zaps are one of the symptoms might be little different for someone with a psychological source for similar symptoms.

Obviously, huge caution must be displayed when recomending this sort of thing to others, over the internet, but we're not recomending anything, simply recounting our own experience. As usual, everyone elses milage may well vary, sometimes considerably. Never assume anything from other peoples experiences, take your time & work shit out for yourself. This applies to anyone reading this, not just Mr. fuck123

 

[Xorkoth]

I really found it fascinating too. I took it just out of desperation/compulsion almost (I was heavily abusing psychedelics in general at that time), and it really completely cleared it up... the depression, fatigue, and brain zaps all completely stopped and stayed gone. Since then I use DOC sometimes if I am experiencing a prolonged and stubborn depressive period for the same emotional clearing up effect.

 

[headfuck123]

Thanks for the input guys, some interesting points made. I think i'll make sure im in good shape physically and mentally before I decide to trip again. In that time il decide weather to take lysergimides or 4aco-dmt. Looking forward to it however I will proceed with caution!

 

[Solipsis]

Not sure if warranted but to be extra careful you might wanna stay away from 2C-T's since they seem to act a little more complex, and the serotonergic system seems to be involved in that complex action.
Until the actions of bk-2C-B and other bk-2C's are cleared up I would also be careful or stay away from those.
And all 5-MeO-tryptamines are also less than ideal if you ask me.
AMT is also in the 'better not department', but that one is not strictly in the psychedelics category.

Anyone is welcome to add to or contest the compounds I mentioned, personally I'd say that it leaves you with a lot of options and I'm not sure why you'd want to take any chances with this.

I've abused MDMA a few years ago (among other things) and while I have not had episodes that include surprising similarities with serotonin syndrome, but have suffered from problems that you can consider associated with functioning of the serotonergic system, I decided to just not take drugs like that again and I am still (perhaps overly) concerned that one time of taking MDMA might give me an unusual amount of problems, while I can't really afford things like depression to have on my plate these days.
I expect that I will be taking something like MDMA again on very special occasions, but am wary of MDA since it is a lot more toxic (I really want to try my sample of MDA once in my life though!). I don't particularly avoid the compounds I told you to steer clear of, but my situation doesn't appear to be too similar.

 

[headfuck123]

thanks for clearing that up, so in theory Lsd, Al-ad, Lsz and 4aco-dmt would be in the "safer but not really recommended in my case" camp?

 

[Si Dread]

thanks for clearing that up, so in theory Lsd, Al-ad, Lsz and 4aco-dmt would be in the "safer but not really recommended in my case" camp?

no, I think they're in the "recomended in your case provided you're cautious at first" area. I think it's the phenethylamines such as 2c-t-2 that Xorkoth is referring to as having a slightly more obvious serotonergic action & that, as such, they may possibly bring a recurrance of your symptoms. Also, avoid any ill-researched drugs such at the psychedelic BK's, & any obviously stimulating psyches like aMT.

I should add that, although DOC is sadly not a drug I find alot of time for (love the stuff but the duration makes it a special occassion trip) on one of the occassions I used in post-ABcZ I suffered a return of my Brain Zaps the next night. However, Benzo's bring a return of my zaps & I may well have used a Benzo during the tail-off period, to get to sleep. On another occassion where I combined DOC with 4-ho-met & had a rather powerful trip, I did not suffer Brain Zaps even though I definitely did use Benzo's to shut it down 15 hours in. Perhaps the 4-ho-met somehow cured the Benzo Brain Zaps in advance..?

Using any serotnonergic stimulant brought many weeks if not months of anxiety & depression after my ABcZ shit, & there is no way a few hours of fun is worth a 6 week comedown. So for the forseeable future, no more stims for I. Thank the Gods for psyches!

 

[headfuck123]

Thats not so bad seeing as I don't have access to many phenethylamines these days apart from mdma or mescaline containing cacti the latter of which i'm yet to try. Looks like its out of the question for the foreseeable future. Iv always much preferred tryptamines and the lysergic delights :LSD/Al-LAD (haven't tried LSZ yet). Think I'l try an allergy test sized dose of 4aco-dmt in a month or so and see how I react.

 

[Xorkoth]

I think it's smart of you to wait anyway, certainly better safe than sorry.