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Trip-sitting cancer patient? (ETH-LAD)

Listening

Bluelighter
Joined
Aug 17, 2009
Messages
806
Someone I love dearly was diagnosed with terminal cancer, several months ago. He has never tried any psychedelic drugs (and no recreational drugs). I had read some articles about cancer patients taking LSD and mushrooms and having relief from anxiety, etc. Obviously, as a psychedelic explorer myself, this wasn't surprising. I sent him some literature and offered to be his trip-sitter. I expected him to say no (because I know that he is weary of all drugs). He said he'd think about it. A few days later he told me that he's still not sure, but that he thinks he's going to take me up on the offer.

So, this is not a sure thing, but I would like to be prepared if he says go. Here are some of my initial thoughts:

  • I'm thinking of going with 150ug of ETH-LAD (after a light breakfast) since I don't have reliable access to LSD. Alternatively, I'm considering going with mushrooms. Thoughts? I have access to plenty of other RCs, but these are my top picks for this.
  • I am undecided about whether I should be totally sober during the experience, or take a micro-dose for myself (to help stay in sync).
  • I think we will start in a familiar, private environment, and work our way out to nature if it feels right, when things get underway. Or should we start outdoors?
  • I would like suggestions for what to ask him to bring with.
  • I would like suggestions for how he can help himself prepare for the trip (setting intentions, etc).

(Edit: Forgot to mention that I'll also bring along etizolam in case we need to bail or mellow things out for whatever reason.)

I've been with a few people for their first psychedelic experience, but I've never done an explicit trip-sit (and never while sober). I feel totally confident that I will do a fine job, but any advice or literature to read to help prepare would be appreciated.

Thanks much.
 
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I've never done this kind of thing before, trip sitting a terminal cancer patient, so take my answers with that grain of salt. I can only do my best to imagine.

  • I think ETH-LAD is a fantastic choice, possibly better than LSD for this purpose. Have you tried the 150µg blotter tabs yet? Just want to make sure you know that they are a hefty dose.
  • My vote would be that you micro/mini-dose, maybe around 20-40µg. However I think you could remain sober and it would be completely fine, you're experienced so you'll be able to relate quite easily.
  • I think that's a good plan to start in a familiar private environment, and work your way out when it feels right.
  • Suggestions for what to bring with: sunglasses for sure, comfortable clothing thats suitable for the weather, meds he might need, water, light snack, journal and pen.
  • I don't tend to be an intention-setting type of tripper, I prefer to go in without expectations because I find that the important stuff emerges naturally on it's own. But for this situation it might be more sensible to do the intentions thing. I'm sure others will have suggestions here. Reading some kind of psychedelic literature (Be Here Now?) or well written trip reports might be good (wouldn't have to be ETH-LAD trip reports imo - psychedelic experience isn't THAT different from one of these PD drugs to another)

(How do you make bullet points in here btw? edit: got it!)
 
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I think ETH-LAD is a fantastic choice, possibly better than LSD for this purpose. Have you tried the 150µg blotter tabs yet? Just want to make sure you know that they are a hefty dose.

I have not tried the blotter tabs yet, but of course plan to do so at least 1 week before the sit. I know that they are dosed strong. Dosage here is a very tough call because #1) he has no experience, so there's no way of knowing how naturally tolerant he is (I suspect very), and #2) he likely won't do this again, so I don't want to under-dose him.

I don't tend to be an intention-setting type of tripper, I prefer to go in without expectations because I find that the important stuff emerges naturally on it's own. But for this situation it might be more sensible to do the intentions thing.

Yea, I'm the same way. I always go in without expectations, but figured in this case that might not be the best path.

(How do you make bullet points in here btw?)

Click Go Advanced and then choose the bullet button, or see: http://www.bluelight.org/vb/misc.php?do=bbcode

Thanks for the response!
 
Dosage here is a very tough call because #1) he has no experience, so there's no way of knowing how naturally tolerant he is (I suspect very), and #2) he likely won't do this again, so I don't want to under-dose him.

Another good reason for your choice of ETH-LAD, considering these circumstances, is that it's hard to imaging 150µg will be an under-dose for anyone, yet if he responds strongly to it, I don't think it's as difficult to handle at high doses as some other PDs are, especially with an experienced sitter like yourself to help guide him.
 
I'm really very sorry to hear about your friend's diagnosis, Listening. Such news are never easy to cope with, for all concerned. You have my condolences.

I think that a lysergamide such as ETH-LAD would be ideal. Mushrooms are too unpredictable and also have a tendency to cause physical discomfort. The only other psychedelic that I would consider for this purpose is 4-AcO-DMT, because of its great similarity to mushrooms sans its negatives (usually).

In a case such as this, I would trip-sit sober for the simple reason that the occasion is exceptionally special. This experience should be his alone.

I would start indoors and in private. After the onset has fully developed, an excursion in nature could be very rewarding indeed (but only if he's genuinely eager to go outside).

Bring music that he enjoys, writing materials, drawing/coloring materials, modelling clay, healthy snacks, fruits, a few books that he might be interested in (including an art book or two, perhaps), a soft-textured ball, a kaleidoscope, and whatever else might seem appropriate.

Regarding self-preparation, let him know of the potential rewards and challenges that such an experience is likely to bring. After that, let him sort the information on his own. Meanwhile, give him the reassurance that you'll answer any questions that he may have and/or address any of his concerns.

Whatever you guys choose to do, have a wonderful time, and tashi to both!
 
Always love your advice, and I love Eth-Lad, but in this case I would go with mushrooms. And I would go with a full immersed trip of 3 to 4 grams. Would also advise to play shamanic didgeridoo music during the trip. It may be a little intense then the Eth-lad, but it will be more rewarding, and it's also a shorter duration. But everyone is different. Just my two sense. Something really cosmic about shrooms when combined with the didgeridoo.
 
I will say the experience that changed my life and viewpoint the most was my first mushroom trip. Granted, it was also my first trip of any kind, but there is something really special and spiritual and connected about mushrooms that I have never found in anything else. But it's true that they have the most potential for difficulty of your choices, for sure.

That's an intense situation man. :\ Sorry about your friend, but it feels beautiful to me that you'll get to share this experience. I was thinking about that, a person who is about to die deciding to take psychedelics for the first time... that's heavy man.

Does your friend have an opinion on the matter? Or just leaving it to you to make that decision?
 
There has also been documented proof that magic mushrooms can certainly be very therapeutic to terminal patients... But either way, shrooms or Eth-lad, they are both great.
 
^ while I can see how you come to your recommendation (high dose mushrooms with that kind of set can provide a death experience / confrontation), I'd also rather go with something LSD-like, just because they seem to be more predictable and easier to handle than high dose psilocybin.

and of course, even though this is supposed to be a one time thing, he can always choose to have another experience, if his first one might not get him to where he wants to go.

noble cause to give him this experience btw, I hope all goes well :)
 
That's an intense situation man. :\ Sorry about your friend, but it feels beautiful to me that you'll get to share this experience. I was thinking about that, a person who is about to die deciding to take psychedelics for the first time... that's heavy man.

This person is more than a friend. I don't really have a relationship with my father (never had), but this guy is as close to a father as I ever had. I feel blessed that I ever met him (for whatever that's worth; coming from an atheist).

Does your friend have an opinion on the matter? Or just leaving it to you to make that decision?

He doesn't know enough about it to have an opinion on what substance to use.

FWIW, my first trip was with mushrooms and it was indeed, by far, my most impactful trip to this day. I would be fine going with mushrooms, except that one of the biggest problems for him these days is the nausea and other negative effects from the cancer medication. I feel that the nausea from the mushrooms would be a serious hindrance to the experience.

Thanks so much to all for the replies so far!
 
This person is more than a friend. I don't really have a relationship with my father (never had), but this guy is as close to a father as I ever had. I feel blessed that I ever met him (for whatever that's worth; coming from an atheist).



He doesn't know enough about it to have an opinion on what substance to use.

FWIW, my first trip was with mushrooms and it was indeed, by far, my most impactful trip to this day. I would be fine going with mushrooms, except that one of the biggest problems for him these days is the nausea and other negative effects from the cancer medication. I feel that the nausea from the mushrooms would be a serious hindrance to the experience.

Thanks so much to all for the replies so far!

Good point about the nausea, however I find grinding the mushrooms into a powder an placed in capsules significantly reduces the nausea. Plus it's nice to half half gram caps for easy dosing. That being said, perhaps start him out on the Eth-Lad, as it really is a beautiful substance. 150mics is nice but not overwhelming, however, everyone is indeed different. Then maybe work your way up to shrooms. And the only reason why I recommend dosing shrooms high is because at least for me, smaller doses tend to give me more anxiety. But like I said everyone is different. Either way I think you are doing an incredible thing for your " father". Beautiful and best of luck. Please let us know how everything goes!
 
any advice or literature to read to help prepare would be appreciated.


Eamon Armstrong said:
In your festival adventures you may run across someone who is having a difficult psychedelic experience. It's important that we all take care of each other at festivals so don't abandon someone who may need your help. If that someone seems to be posing a danger to themselves or others, alert festival security immediately. Being a good samaritan shouldn't put you in physical danger.

However, if the person is lost and confused there are ways you can support him or her and keep them safe. Consider assisting them in getting to the medical tent. If you're concerned you may get in trouble check out this helpful response from our column Ask The Festival Lawyer. There are trained professionals who can help and will do so in a supportive, nonjudgemental manner. Some festivals have designated safe spaces for people in such a condition. The Zendo Project , a group based in Santa Cruz, California, provides such a space at festivals and has compiled Four Pillars of Psychedelic Support to utilize if no other help is available. The following description of Zendo's Four Pillars is an excerpt from my own experience working with the Zendo project in Costa Rica at Envision Festival.


1. Create a Safe Space
Zendo_2.png

Photo by: The Zendo Project
Festival environments are designed to be highly stimulating: Bombastic sound systems, intense light shows and general cacophony create a surreal wonderland for adventure. But when things start to overwhelm, these dynamic effects can heighten anxiety. Zendo is designed to provide tranquility and comfort. In addition to feeling physically safe, the guest must feel emotionally safe, which involves volunteers exuding a non-judgmental, welcoming attitude.

The conditions for this safety system, according to Sara Gael, MA MAPS Harm Reduction Coordinator, holistic psychotherapist, and Zendo Envision lead, are known as “set” and “setting.”

“'Set' refers to an individual’s internal state and includes emotional state and mood, pre-existing mental conditions, stress, comfort, and developmental stage," she explains. "'Setting' refers to an individual’s external conditions including where the person is, whom they are with, dosage, and drug interactions."

Gael emphasizes that set and setting are not mutually exclusive, and affect and inform one another. When sitters pay attention to an individual's set and setting, a safety system, uniquely tailored to that individual, can be created, so that the individual can surrender to the experience, even if discomfort or fear arises.


2. Sitting, Not Guiding
Rather than using direct intervention, the goal for the sitter is to allow healing to occur naturally. The tools we used were breathing, validating, mirroring and affirming. The importance of not intervening in a guest’s experience was emphasized over and over throughout the weekend.

From MAPS: How to Work With Difficult Psychedelic Experiences: “There is always the tendency to overpower the other with our knowledge, wisdom, and insight. So let go of all knowledge regarding the experiences that the person is having. Just be with, listen, and observe.”

Does that mean that the sitter must be rigid and avoid engaging with the guest at all?

“It can be useful to provide gentle reassurance or reframing of the experience," explains Chelsea Rose, Zendo's volunteer coordinator. "These methods of support reflect what is already happening for the individual, while also reassuring them that their experience is acceptable."


3. Talk Through, Not Down
Sitters are taught to understand that there is a natural process going on in the mind of the affected guest. Thus there is no effort to end the psychedelic trip prematurely; sitters must simply let the guest experience it with as much safety and comfort as possible.

Linnae Ponté, Director of Harm Reduction at MAPS and Founder of the Zendo Project repeats the mantra of "Trust. Let go. Be open. Breathe. Surrender."

Ponté says that when re-experiencing emotions from a past trauma, (which sometimes happens with psychedelics) having the space to feel the extent of that pain and suffering can be a pivotal to the guest's healing opportunity. A sitter must acknowledge that any emotions that bubble to the surface during a psychedelic experience are often strongly charged and can bring guests to the threshold of his or her consciousness.

"Our job isn’t to intervene, but to trust whatever is happening for them, and whatever it brings up in us, and to know it’s all temporary," Ponté continues. "We live in a world where emotional discomfort is suppressed with all kinds of drugs and behaviors, and we give guests the opportunity to instead go into the discomfort, and find out what’s underneath it."


4. Difficult is Not the Same as Bad

The assumption that a difficult experience is “bad” can in fact contribute to the anxiety and general discomfort of the journey. “The mindset evident in the term 'bad trip' helps shed light on the outdated and often harmful methods by which these experiences are often addressed, including hospitalization and the involvement of law enforcement," explains Sara Gael. This approach to handling someone having a difficult psychedelic experience is common at events and often worsens or escalates a situation. They are methods that attempt to end or interrupt the individual’s experience and can send a message to the individual that something is wrong with them or that they are not safe."

Clearly, that is not the ideal approach for someone who is already feeling overwhelmed or frightened.

For a more complete explanation of how to support individuals who are experiencing an intense psychedelic experience, including important ethical concerns, check out the newly compiled Manual of Psychedelic Support. This incredible resource was the result of a collaboration between researchers, artists, psychiatrists, therapists, psychonauts, and festival producers and is freely available under a Creative Commons license.

http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads...uiding-others-through-psychedelic-experiences
 
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Try cannabis first, lots of it, daily.

I disagree, psychedelics can offer a much greater potential thing. There's research into the usage of an intense psychedelic experience for individuals facing death, to help come to terms with it and gain a greater feeling of peace and understanding at the transition.
 
It would also be important to know what medications - that could affect the trip - your friend has to take.

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Probably he is on a lot of opiates for the pain. Therefore it could be necessary to dose higher. Guess there are a lot of people on bl that could help to adjust the dose - in respect to heavy opiate intake.

Also it would be important to know how much your friend weights. All people i know that suffered from cancer lost extremely weight - its a different thing to dose 150 mics to somebody with 100 kg or 40 kg.

In respect to possible nausea: Chemotherapy itself causes a lot of nausea. Maybe its better to not boost it. Every mushroom - even Agaricus - are hard work for the digestive tract.
 
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