Bupe Tried to get back on today and failed, was it precip?

[Area57]

I went to a detox center, just because I have had poor willpower getting myself to take suboxone again.

Long story short, I have been IV heroin about gram a day for a year.

before that I was on subs for years and they were great. I started shooting at night heroin and the next morning while waking would out sub under my tongue and hope to quit that day, then I would fail and go score.

eventually the subs started making me edgy, I think it was a little precipitated withdrawal. I was only taking about 1mg, but I would get really edgy and not feel better like normal, so I decided if I wasn't ready to quit heroin I would at least stop using both, because I worried suboxone would stop working when I did be ready to quit,

today I went to a detox center and the other junkies all took their subs, some 36 hours after and some 15. They all looked and felt great. I told the nurse I wasn't ready and she agreed. After waiting 18 hours since last heroin use, I took 2 mg subutex and went and laid down. The nurse had given me two pills but I didn't want to go into pwd too bad if I didn't so I just took one to start.

i think I had a placebo effect and thought I felt better after ten minutes, but then I fell asleep for an hour and woke up feeling bad. So I took the other subutex and started this weird dry heave, sneeze thing, I have no idea what it was, but I spewed all the spit in my mouth on my pillow. I got very edgy very quick, that was the main sign, it's the symptom I hate the most and the one that tells me I'm in wd most. So I checked myself out and went home and shot up. I shot up kind of a lot and don't feel high at all, but the withdrawals are gone.

what I want to know now is was that precip withdrawal or were the hours just going by and I was going into regular wd worse? Either way sucks. One means the subs weren't working and I need them to save me, the other means I took them too soon. I wasn't feeling terrible when I took them but I was feeling terrible after. I could almost not drive home. But I have always read precip is the worst thing ever, this was bad, but I wasn't glued to the toilet. But my main symptom is up always the extreme edginess. What do you think?

and what do I do now? I don't want to continue heroin, but have no idea when to take my next suboxone. I would like to go back to the detox center maybe, there was good and bad about it, I don't know if they will let me back in. But I have subs at home, I shot up tonight at 12:30 a.m. Can I just wait for the heroin to wear off and take subs tomorrow? Maybe there are already some in my system? What do I do. It's better at home in some ways because I can take klonopin and smoke and drink coffee. The detox center won't let you and after they give subs whether they work or not they only let you have trazadone or benydryl.

 

[crzydiamond]

If you took the sub yesterday it's in your system and you shouldn't experience PW.

When pw hits it's like having 3 days of wd hit you all at once. I don't think you'd be questioning "was it pw?" ....if it was you'd know. And it hits quick. It feels like having all the opiates ripped off your brain. Feels just like when I was Narcan-ed

But to answer you--since you took some yesterday you should be fine to dose today. Start small (like 1mg) just in case. If you don't feel like you're dying within 5 minutes you're clear (and you should be). Then take more til you feel comfortable. I would dose when you get up, don't wait til you feel like shit

Is your plan maintenance or detox with the subs? Just asking cause I would dose differently depending on which you are doing.

Take the sub today and if you want off the dope don't shoot any today just let the sub take over. It's already in your system so you should be good to go. Good luck

 

[Area57]

Maintenance. I would like to get back on maintenance. So do they sometimes after prolonged opiate use take a while to build up in your system and work. I'm wondering why if it wasn't precipitated wd why they didn't make me feel a little better?

Are there any other things I should take to help the transition?

 

[smackydowners]

did you only take 2mg for a gram IV heroin habit?

sounds like your withdrawals were worsening from being off the h and the sub wasnt enough.

 

[Area57]

I took 2 mg and then another two two hours later.

I guess I think that is what it is. That it just wasn't enough and I need it to build up in my body. I waited until 2:30 today and took about 1mg because I was scared that if I took to much and it was precip the more I took the worse it would be. I didn't go into precipitated wd but I didn't feel much either. So it's good news and bad news, the good news being that I may have got it started building up in my system so maybe I don't have to worry about precip WD now so much.

So I took a 2 point heroin shot and I am going to keep trying to get back on suboxone.

i don't know what I'm doing, I took suboxone for years and regret ever stopping. I am just so weak about the edginess I get from WD.

so far my plan is, and I read this online multiple places. To take the subs every day, and then the smallest shots of H at night you can get by with. After a couple days the subs will build up in your body and block the H and then you can switch to just subs, and all the who's your H tolerance is going down, making it easier to make the transition.

has anyone ever heard of this? Is it hogwash or a viable tactic to get back on suboxone. I am kicking myself because I want my life back and I don't know what to do, I worry that the suboxone doesn't work, because I have OCD and I read somewhere that someone thought it didn't work for them any longer.

but the people I observed taking it at the detox facility yesterday, it was all working for them. So I really want it to work for me, I would be so grateful, I truly believe I would never touch heroin again after I get off of it this time.

i just don't think I can do cold turkey and from the people at the detox center, they looked like it was really helping them, they looked happy and positive. I Can do this too.

 

[crzydiamond]

Really, why go through all that? You have sub in your system. You didn't go into precip wd. Go to bed, get up tomorrow and take the sub. Take 1 mg just to play it safe. If you don't feel the worst wd you ever felt set in within 5 minutes (and you shouldn't cause you took sub within the last 72 hours) then take at least another 3 mg. if after an hour or two you still feel crappy take another 4 mg.

Don't take h after. If you feel not 100%, remember you don't always feel 100% the first day or two of taking only sub. Plus your brain wants that dope so it'll tell you all sorts of reasons why you should do a shot. But if you really want off--just don't do that shot that day.

Get up the next day and take the sub. I would take 4 mg at a time until you feel normal.

That's pretty much it. You are seriously over thinking and over-complicating it. ...

 

[Area57]

Thanks crazy diamond, that is exactly what I needed to hear. I just explained my plan to my girlfriend who was one of the lucky or strong ones that got addicted to the needle, got on and off subs and has never looked back.

i explained my plan to her and she was like.....uh, I know you have OCD, but you are really over thinking this.

so, for reassurance purposes, I should wake up, get kinda sick, take one mg, then assuming no precip, take four, and repeat until it does something?

it will work right? You can't mess it up so it doesn't work anymore right? I just have a high tolerance so I won't feel good for the first few dats of the transition? But not cold turkey bad right?

thanks for helping an anxious guy get clean. I want to be clean, I have stuff left in my life I haven't blown and I need to stop now before I ruin everything. Your reassurance as long as it is honest will help a person become who they used to be again. I promise you, I want to get better. I will get better.

my mind is my worst enemy.

 

[crzydiamond]

It will work. You hear people say sub becomes "less effective" when they jump on and off. It's anecdotal evidence, but those people are users who jump on and off and on and off and on and...you get the picture. Some people use subs very often when they can't cop, then they do cop, etc. From your history there is absolutely no reason you shouldn't be fine and be able to get back on sub

Yes, exactly, wake up kinda sick, I said take 1 mg at first as it is always best to play it safe and if ever you did throw yourself into precip wd it's not as bad with 1 mg as with more (although it's still awful...). As you have sub in your system there is no way you should get precip wd; I said it more as a just to be completely safe

And you could titrate up by 2 mg at a time but I suggested 4 mg as you had a decent sized habit plus you weren't getting relief from 2 mg plus 2 mg.

But yeah, some people don't feel all happy happy joy joy on the first day or two of using sub. I was one of them. But your body will transition and you won't be sick, just kind of not 100% perfect. It's at this point you must ignore your brain talking you into getting dope cause it wants to feel high.

I'm happy to be of help. I'm currently on methadone and haven't used dope in about a year and a half and life has dramatically improved. I also had close to 9 years completely clean (no maintenance) before the last relapse. I'll eventually taper off methadone. But maintenance drugs like sub and methadone can definitely help a person quit and get their life back. That's how I felt before I stopped using this time--all I wanted was to get my life back to how I felt during that clean time.

I can honestly say I'm happy today...I feel a light inside "high" feeling drugs never brought me. Just from living. I hope you get there!

Anything else I can help on just ask. You can do this!! Don't over analyze it!

 

[Mad Dash]

You just need to pick yourself up and say THAT IS IT. You are either going to do it or not. This whole wishy washy approach is like watching a child with a life vest a mask a snorkel float wings and flippers holding on to the edge of the pool trying to learn how to swim. You need to take away all the safety gear and just commit. You can not even have it in your mind that you can use H and sub at the same time. It is a one or the other type of thing. Get someone you care about to watch you, or get into an inpatient clinic if you do not have the strength to do it alone, and do not be ashamed if you can not do it by yourself, I needed to get to rehab to do it for real. It is not something to be ashamed of. That would be like being embarrassed about going to the doctor to get RX for insulin for your diabetes.

Get help, and get yourself better. This is a long road ahead of you and what you are doing right now is not even taking a step in the right direction, you are just making matters worse by getting your mind comfortable with the fact that you can just up and switch to H anytime you want. The truth is once you are on Subs and have adjusted to it you wont be able to take H, but you need to give yourself enough time to let the bupe build up in your system. I would say you are one of the people that should be on 8 mg twice a day. If you get use to taking that much, it makes it impossible to get high.

People say doctors are over writing the RX for bupe, but that is not really true, if you get someone on a high dose of bupe and they take it twice a day it may be more than they need to avoid WD BUT it is not more than needed to make people unable to get high on other drugs. So lease just commit to this. Get to rehab or have friends or family watch you like a hawk, because you are a difficult patient, you will ruin your own treatment if you are not being watched 24/7and like I said that does not make you a bad person this is a disease and it is devastating.

You need to get help before you lose yourself to it.

 

[Area57]

I did do a bit of jumping back and forth this time months ago when I was trying to get the will power to quit. I would take subs in the morning and score at night. I was only taking about a mg of subs though. So I got it in my head that maybe subs won't work anymore because I did something to them.

 

[StealYourFace]

Good advise in this thread. I hop back and forth a bit... The first couple days are a little rough... Headachy lethargic ect but not bad. After 3 days though you feel pretty normal. Thats the best you will ever feel is just normal with subs but it beats the fuck outnof
Pissing away all your money on the other options..
If i try i can maintain on a pretty low Dose, and get a small amount of my doc for a day and go back to my low dose the next. The key is to take a little more than normal sub the next day to keep your mind of scoting for me in the afternoon. I work long fuckong days and right around 330 instart to have those cravings for a couple blues or opanas ect

 

[Area57]

Very good advice in this thread. I am going to schedule myself back into the detox center Monday if I can't quit in the comfort of my home, or my parents home, with them to watch me and help me.

I li did unfortunately be inpatient again today. I took suboxone upon waking, about a mg, and a mg and hour later and then felt edgy and didn't feel like they were doing anything and took the bad stuff. Tomorrow I will do this. No more excuses. I should just tiers te up from waking right? Take one mg, wait hour, take one mg, wait hour. I just don't know. I did t really feel much at all today and I use too. It's probably my mind. Just because on mg used to make me well, well, that was when I had tapered down and was doing no h. Now I have a higher habit,tolerance so I shouldn't expect one or two mg of suboxone to make everything ok.

i do think I feel it building up in my body though. When I did inject, I didn't feel high, I just felt not sick and edgy anymore. So maybe that's a sign the subs are slowly attaching themselves to my receptors?

i hate to be a crazy OCD guy, overanylyzing things. Any tips for tomorrow? Is there anything to get rid of that edginess? I think as I increase and increase the sub dose over the day the edginess will get better, but I've got to get to that point and that edginess is what gets me.

i truly appreciate the help and I think that by this time next week I will be reporting that I am onlyn suboxone.

 

[sekio]

i hate to be a crazy OCD guy, overanylyzing things. Any tips for tomorrow? Is there anything to get rid of that edginess?

keep yourself busy doing other things than sitting around worrying

Bupe is not ever going to be a 100% replacement for all the effects of heroin and if you are taking it expecting o get high then you will be disappointed every time. It's a partial agonist and there is no magical way around that.

If you manage to take bupe and not feel any nasty withdrawal symptoms and at most feel "a little edgy" then that is a damn sight better than unassisted withdrawals, yeah? So tough it out for now...