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Tricyclics and Hallucinogens

aBitOfAWorry

aBitOfAWorry

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Mar 16, 2005
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I have read the FAQ on antidepressants and recreational drugs and found that tricyclics potentiate hallucinogens. I was wondering how much stronger the effects of hallucinogens (specifically mushrooms and LSD) would be. The antidepressant taken is Doxepin 10mg once daily.

I know that it’s impossible to provide exact information but I would like to know how dosage should be altered while on Doxepin. For example should only half a standard trip of acid be taken or only 1/3 of the amount of mushrooms etc.

Has anyone had any experience taking hallucinogens while on a tricyclic?
 
ermm, i have not read about this but i wouldn't bugger up your otherwise healthy mind with anti-depressants; as soon as they upped my friends dosage on fluxoxetine i havn't spoken to him is that conincidence? I am by no means expert on these matters but if i were you i would use syrian rue or another similar mono-amine-oxidase-inhibitor as they potentiate the effects of psychedelics to quite a degree plus they add a more spiritual element to the trip.

I have not read this faq could you please post the link. I have also never read about anyone purposefully mixing antidepressants with psychedelics unless they have to have those meds anyways.

peace
 
Forget what the guy before said. If you want an account of tricyclics with lsd you can look for a story by DM Turner (http://salvia.drugsinfo.net/dmturner/guide/toc.html chapter lsd and combinations).
I have no experience but guesstimating double potency while on medication i would go for 1/4 the usual dose and evaluate after an hour; then maybe take another1/4.
 
Thanks very much for your reply smartshop.

Sorry psychonaut65, but I didn't mean that I wanted to take the tricyclic to potentiate hallucinogens on purpose. I was wondering what difference a tricyclic would make if someone with a prescription took a hallucinogen.

By the way, the FAQ I was referring to was the FAQ in the Drugs FAQs forum.

FAQ: Antidepressants and Recreational Drugs
 
ermm, i have not read about this but i wouldn't bugger up your otherwise healthy mind with anti-depressants; as soon as they upped my friends dosage on fluxoxetine
Click to expand...

Fluoxetine isn't a tricyclic, and some people need a bout of anti-depressant therapy to break out of the negative cycle that characterizes depression (it's not a healthy mind if you have depression). If you've never suffered from clinical depression, you have no idea just how much of a living hell it can be, and how important anti-depressant therapy can be.

That said, I'd never even consider fluoxetine (or another SSRI) as the antidepressant of choice for me ever again. One course of fluoxetine and one of paroxetine was enough to make me think that the dry mouth and slightly blurred vision I get with lofepramine is a small price to pay when compared to becoming an SSRI eunuch
 
^^^Another SSRI hater! Yay!

aBitOfAWorry, let us know how it goes. Start low and be careful.
 
aBitOfAWorry said:
I have read the FAQ on antidepressants and recreational drugs and found that tricyclics potentiate hallucinogens. I was wondering how much stronger the effects of hallucinogens (specifically mushrooms and LSD) would be. The antidepressant taken is Doxepin 10mg once daily.
Click to expand...

super bump haha I wanted to drop a hit soon as read that

I'm on nortryptaline and and lookin for info
 
No one here has experience with tricyclic anti-depressants and LSD/psilocybin? I'm taking 100mg Doxepin per day for over 2 weeks and wonder what I can expect from a <200ug hit. Does it make it stronger? Does it change anything else?

I also wonder if it would change anything if I stop using Doxepin 1-2 days before the trip.
I'm experienced with psychedelics, but I'd prefer not to have a 400ug trip from a 200ug blotter. It would also be very annoying to get headaches from this combination.

Experience with the combination MDMA + tricyclic anti-depressant would also be interesting. Erowid doesn't have much information about this.
 
MDMA with TCA's seems dangerous. I don't have any direct info, but TCAs promiscuous affinity profile makes me think its ill advised. I'm pretty unsure of the effects your more standard 5-HT2a psychedelics would have in combo with TCAs, i'd imagine some blunting of the desirable effects and an increase of side-effects, but that's just a guess. I'm pretty sure this would vary from TCA to TCA and from individual to individual as well.
 
I guess everyone is on SSRI instead of tricyclics nowadays, that's why there is so little information about this combination.

Today I found this:

List of recommended substances neuroprotective against MDMA-induced neurotoxicity:
[...]
Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors (SRIs):
[...]
* Tricyclic Antidepressants (TCAs):
o Amitriptyline (Elavil)
o Clomipramine (Anafranil)
o Dosulepin/Dothiepin (Prothiade)
o Doxepin (Adapin, Sinequan)
o Imipramine (Tofranil)
o Lofepramine (Gamanil, Lomont)
o Trimipramine (Surmontil)
Click to expand...
Source: http://www.mdma.net/kobie/simple.html

Doesn't seem like the combination of MDMA and Doxepin is overly dangerous, when they recommend Doxepin to protect against MDMA-induced neurotoxicity. I guess I'll test this combination soon and compare it to my MDMA experience a few weeks ago, where I didn't take any meds.
There is also a trip report of someone who used MDMA in combination with Amitriptyline (tricyclic antidepressant): http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=53931

For the combination of LSD+Doxepin I didn't find any concrete informations, but I assume the fact that Doxepin may worsen psychotic conditions like schizophrenia is somehow related.
Doxepin also increases the drug actions of some drugs, so I assume it does intensify some or all effects of the LSD:

From the Doxepin wiki page:
Interactions

[...]
* Increased drug actions:
* other antidepressants, barbiturates, narcotics, sedating antihistaminics, anticonvulsive drugs, alcohol - resulting in increased central depression
* anticholinergics (antiparkinsonian agents, tri- and tetracyclic antidepressants) - resulting in increased anticholinergic action (dry mouth, obstipation etc.)
Click to expand...
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doxepin#Interactions

Some Erowid pages also suggest an increased response to LSD, when taking other tricyclics than Doxepin.

So from the information I have now I have to assume that Doxepin might increase the effects of LSD, and the worst which could happen is that I have a very psychotic bad trip with possibly heavy dissociation. That would be a pity for the ~200ug LSD I intend to drop in a few months, but it doesn't seem extraordinarily harmful to me (I personally can deal with bad trips and psychotic symptoms). I intend to take it in a safe environment anyway.


Related links:
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/maois/maois_info4.shtml
http://www.erowid.org/references/refs_view.php?ID=6208
 
I take 100mg Doxepin every evening and tested the combination with MDMA yesterday. Did 150mg MDMA at 8pm, and another 150mg at 10pm.

There were no unpleasant occurences like headaches, mind overload or whatever. Due to my very different mindset I can't really compare it to the experience a few weeks ago (without meds), but it seems that it neither weakens nor strengthens the intensity of the MDMA. Though it might actually be a little stronger than without Doxepin.

At ~3am I took 75mg of Doxepin and was able to sleep at around 6am. It wasn't exactly a very deep sleep, but I feel fine today. No depression etc.
 
2 days ago I tested the combination LSD & MDMA & Doxepin.

Took the usual dose of 100mg Doxepin at the night before the trip. 17-18 hours later I spontaneously dropped one hit of LSD (Avatar, allegedly 180-200ug LSD). To prevent myself from doing anything stupid in a possibly dissociative state of mind I locked the door of my flat from the inside and hid the key.
I kept the blotter under my tongue for about 1 hour. At that point I barely felt any effects and was disappointed. Either the Avatars I have are from a weaker batch, or the Doxepin reduces the intensity of the LSD. Then I let another hour pass, where I almost fell asleep (I smoked 2 joints before dropping the LSD) - a very boring state of mind. Maybe also a result of my mindset.

At T+2:00 I decided to take 150mg of MDMA, to stimulate my brain a little. Not much later my mindset improved into a less boring state and I finally started tripping. Still there were barely any visual changes in my perception, but my mind was in a significantly altered state of consciousness.
At T+8:30 I took 100mg of Doxepin and was able to sleep about 1-2 hours later. There were no negative side effects from this combination of substances.

TL;DR: LSD and (high doses of) Doxepin doesn't seem to be a dangerous combination. And I strongly doubt that this specific tricyclic anti-depressant intensifies the effects of LSD.
 
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I'm on 100mg of doxepin a night and id say it makes it weaker. I took 300ugs and barely triped. I stopped taking the doxepin for a week and took 100ugs and it felt stronger than the 300ugs
 
I once took amitriptyline on top of a hit of LSD. It did have a certain "amplification" effect but it also made me drowsy and cloudy. My experience basically was that some aspects of the LSD experience were altered from the 20 mg of amitriptyline taken at the same time. The alteration that occurred was not particularly pleasant or useful and I never desired to try again. I was 17 and experimenting with drug combos.
 
Morninggloryseed said:
I once took amitriptyline on top of a hit of LSD. It did have a certain "amplification" effect but it also made me drowsy and cloudy. My experience basically was that some aspects of the LSD experience were altered from the 20 mg of amitriptyline taken at the same time. The alteration that occurred was not particularly pleasant or useful and I never desired to try again. I was 17 and experimenting with drug combos.
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Since tricyclics are usually serotonin reuptake inhibitors as well as 5HT2A antagonists (among other things), you'd figure they'd mostly diminish rather than potentiate a trip.
 
As this old thread was bumped earlier this year I?ll add my two pennies worth.

I have recent experience of this with clomipramine which is the most potent of the TCAs.

20 to 30 mg of clomipramine had a slightly dampening effect on LSD. I took about 1.3 tabs and experienced somewhat less than my friend who only took 2/3 of a tab. Still, I definitely tripped.

However, mushrooms are a different story. The same amount of clomipramine completely abolished any effect whatever from 25 grams of fresh hollandia truffle which should have been a medium to high dose. There was literally no effect at all.

So my experience is that TCAs mildly reduce the effect of LSD but hugely reduce the effect of psilocybin.
 
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