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Stimulants Treating ADHD without amphetamine/meth based drugs....any experiences?

bdomihizayka

Bluelighter
Joined
Jul 30, 2012
Messages
582
I believe I have ADHD. I had obsessive thoughts and was a compulsive person for years, and a friend's Adderall one day solved all my problems. Adderall worked wonders for about 3 months, and then I started crashing really hard, from just 20-30mg a day. Adderall still solves my issues, but I cannot take it more than a few days a month because the crash is more soul crushing than coke for me.

Has anyone had any luck with non stimulant based ADHD meds? Intuniv, Strattera, Wellbutrin? I have been on mood stabilizers, and antidepressants across the board and none help, all just give negative side effects....and with my reaction to stims, I know my obsessiveness and compulsiveness has to be ADHD related because of how well I responded to Adderall, but fuck, the crash is too much. Benzos are a huge no no; withdrew from them once so never ever again, and I cannot drink alcohol at night to come off of them because I am clean from opiates for only a couple months, and don't want to risk a relapse.

Any suggestions?
 
I believe I MAY..... i am very disorganized, unmotivated, compulsive (shopping, gambling, drug abuse in the past). I do believe I can better my diet, which isn't too horrendous to begin with, and start exercising and bodybuilding again, becoming more active, etc.... and see where it goes. But I may have the need for medication because the symptoms I have lost me friends, abused my brain and body with drugs, and have a very hard time "fitting in" with many social norms.

I cannot conform really well to the culture. And thus I am invalid...... yet i do believe SOME of the problem is that of societies rigidness and the inability for some people to cope with it, like myself.

Don't get me wrong, no meds would be fantastic.... maybe change up my routine and diet like I said; just wondering what options I have down the line and what success people have had with them.
 
ADHD doesn't have to be treated with drugs. I recommend seeing a GOOD doctor to find out if you actually fit the diagnosis or not, and reading some good books about it, for example Scattered (aka Scattered Minds in Canada) by Dr Gabor Mate. There are a lot of non-drug approaches you can take to learning how to function with ADHD. It's not a quick/easy fix of course, but like most things in life the best results often come from things are not quick/easy fixes. Drugs don't solve anything and I really feel it's important to use non-drug approaches as well even when choosing to take drugs.

As for drugs, if you do get a diagnosis of ADHD, what drug would be best suited for you depends on your symptoms. ADHD is just a collection of symptoms and there are many different types. I know someone with ADHD who finds Wellbutrin very effective for it and prefers it to amphetamines for a number of reasons. There are some threads on here about Intuniv. I read a study that found it effective in children but not effective in adults. It seems more for the hyperactivity and anxiety part of ADHD and is very different from other ADHD drugs. Some doctors prescribe it alongside another drug to help with the side effects of the other drug. I like a less-is-more approach as opposed to taking drugs that give you bad side effects and adding more drugs to mask the side effects of the other drugs and so on. Strattera is a norepinephrine inhibitor, which sounds like it wouldn't be well-suited for someone with anxiety or depression. So it really depends on what kind of symptoms you have and I think the first step should be talking to a good doctor about it.

(I have ADD by the way, I don't usually like to call it ADHD personally because when I was diagnosed there was ADD and ADHD, not like today where the DSM has decided there is only ADHD, and to me ADHD implies hyperactivity, which I don't have aside from mental hyperactivity).
 
I have heard that ADD is not an actual diagnosis anymore. Rather, there is a number of ADHD subtypes: ADHD 'without' hyperactivity (the classic 'ADD', but that name is no longer used). Hyperactivity Disorder (just the 'HD', weird, but yes that is a subtype), and ADHD with both attention deficit and hyperactivity (classic ADHD). Different meds work better for different subtypes and the non-drug treatments and therapies are different for each subtype as well. My psychologist is the one who gave me this bit of info when we discussed my ADHD subtype 3.
 
I don't believe in 90% of mental illness including ADD/HD.
I was diagnosed with ADD myself, lets just say it's the easiest thing in the world. It's about 100,000 X easier to get ADHD meds/stimulants than it is something that will adaquatley treat pain.

I've a script of Adderall XR 20mg 1X a day. I go through the month without taking anymore than 1 or 2..sometimes i don't take any at all.

How crazy is it that Adderall is Sched. II and Vicodin is Sched. III, but it's way easier to get the Adderall anyway??
I just mind-fucked myself.
 
^I assume you mean you don't believe ADHD is a "disease", like the idea that some people have that people are born with ADHD, like it's some permanent brain defect and that there is no cure other than taking drugs for the rest of your life? If so, I agree that that is bogus. But I don't agree that ADHD isn't real. As I said, it's just a collection of symptoms. If you have enough of the symptoms and they are seriously interfering with your ability to function in your society or happily live your life that leads to a diagnosis of the "disorder". I do think it is way over-diagnosed and that the labels like "mental disorder" and "ADHD" can be damaging. And that ADHD drugs are way over-prescribed and alternatives to taking stimulants all day every day are not considered often enough. But having these issues can be very detrimental to one's life, whatever you choose to call it. I had a brain scan which showed abnormal brain activity in regions that are associated with ADHD. So there is something real and tangible going on.

Also for anyone interested, here is a link to the current criteria doctors use to decide whether or not someone has ADHD: DSM-IV & DSM-IV-TR Diagnostic Criteria for ADHD
 
ADHD has proven neurobiological causes. Deficits in dopamine signaling and noradrenaline signaling specifically, and glutamate and choline signaling and nicotinic signaling have also been implicated. If you have a bad case of ADHD, there is no mistaking it, and functioning normally usually requires the use of some kind of medication, not necessarily an amphetamine based stimulant, but something to improve functioning of the dopamine/noradrenaline signaling in the prefrontal cortex. ADHD can arise from a whole host of different signaling issues, which is why clonidine, which smooths out the noradrenaline response in the stratium works for some, but only high doses of amphetamine work for others, despite the fact that these two drugs have essentially opposite effect, one decreases noradrenaline and has no affect on dopamine signaling and the other massively increases dopamine and noradrenaline concentrations.

You have to work with your doctor, sometimes trying different ones before you find one you can work with. Unfortunately, in a lot of states, like CA, many shrinks don't take insurance, so the ability to find someone is limited by your means. But it is a lot of trial and error and it can take time, and it requires constant montitoring and can require adjustments along the way. If you indeed have something like ADHD, you just have to come to terms with the fact that you have a life long, but treatable disease that you will have to manage for the rest of your life, no different than diabetes or immune deficiency diseases. Personally, I take straterra (100mg), Vyvanse (100mg) and dexedrine (20mg) in the morning, and I take memantine twice a day 10mg in the morning, 10mg in the afternoon. I have taken adderall in the past at 60mg a day. If you truly have a bad case of ADHD, then really, the way to avoid the crash is not to have it. IF 20-30mg a day worked wonders for three weeks, and then didn't and you crashed, the solution is usually to up the dose until you stabilize and have a constant level of medication all the time. 60mg is the FDA top dose, 80mg is what most shrinks will go up to. Vyvanse and dexedrine are longer lasting, and most shrinks will go up to 60mg of dexedrine daily. 100mg of Vyvanse is about 40mg of dexedrine, and the prodrug delivery makes it last all day. I also had dips throughout the day with IR adderall, this is not the case with the current dosages. I was surprised at how effective the Strattera was. The memantine is of questionable efficacy, but it has no negative effects, and its theoretically neuroprotective, so I just keep taking it. I would not discount stimulant therapy if 20-30mg worked for you, but you don't want to continue because of the crash. The key is consistency, finding a dose that lasts through the whole day, and taking it everyday, at the same time everyday. There are however a whole host of other non stimulant treatments out there, such as as you mentioned straterra. There is also clonidine, guanfasine, and others. However, the efficacy of the lower doses for three weeks seems to indicate that stimulant therapy is the way to go. But you have to work this out with your doctor, thats the only way to do it, everyone is different. Also, dex tends to be much smoother than the mixed salts of adderall and may solve the crash issue.

Saying you don't believe in ADHD or any other neurological cognitive psychiatric disorder, or that it is just a "collection of symptoms" is no different than saying you don't believe in diabetes, it can be entirely controlled in most cases with diet, and it is just a collection of symptoms. Symptoms are diagnostic tools in the DSM, they aren't the disease itself. And we know diabetes is none of those things, but a malfunctioning of insulin signaling that for a small subset of people can be brought under control by diet, for most requires a drug (insulin), and for a small subset, could never be brought under control with diet (type 1 sufferers). ADHD, bipolar, depression, etc, are no different.
 
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