The Deep End

[Flickering]

Over the last eight or so months, I've only gone on two LSD trips, at tame doses. You could consider this a break, and now I have decided to get back into it, and much harder than before. I actually feel compelled by it.

But this time, I'm more interested in the deep end of the psychedelic experience. There is something enormous missing from my life and I have a distinct sense that I won't find it in this mode of reality. For years now, I've found some comfort and familiarity in surreal imagery, or even just everyday scenery that seems sublime when cast in a certain solitary light. The feeling is vague and frustrating, but there are moments I have the surest sense I have been somewhere like that before. Whatever it is, it has nothing to do with our time-based routines of work and study, living and dying, socialising and relaxing and watching the human world begin to disintegrate. Often I'm struck by the meaninglessness of it all, and I end up strolling the night streets, watching the metro lights on the water, looking for something to absolve the unnameable unease. I used to fear that it was the beginning of psychosis, but then insanity is more beautiful than I thought.

It seems to me that meditation or hypnosis would fall short of this goal, and the surest way to a world like the one I'm trying to find would be through the likes of DMT, ketamine, ibogaine, or perhaps even salvia. Maybe extreme doses of LSD or mushrooms would do the same, but my experience with those tends to show me a beautifully altered version of this world, and at best a mere glimpse of the beyond. I am interested in realities entirely unlike this one, where the rules of time, space and causality I've acclimatised to over a lifetime do not apply. I have never been there, though I've taken test doses of ayahuasca, special K and salvia before. I don't think it would be wrong to say I'm simply seeking an escape from this world, but maybe by doing so, I might find an angle on this one that will give it reason again.

I do not believe that I have a soul that's being called to this experience... however, that's the best way I can put it. I feel I have enough experience with hallucinogens that I'm ready for this. I'm aware of the dangers and resolved in myself to take the risk.

So if anyone has anything they'd like to tell me before I embark, I'd love to hear it. Thanks.

 

[swilow]

but then insanity is more beautiful than I thought.

That's true, but then, you are not talking about actual 'insanity' here. An understanding of the utter depths of oddity of this existence within the confines of the fucking universe is UNBEARABLY beautiful, but the meaningless chaos of psychosis is not so much.

To an extent, it sounds like you are planning to do something, but I am not sure what. Are you talking about taking a high dose of a specific drug? If so, that is a decision only you should make.

Either ketamine or ayahuasca will take you to places that appear to be beyond 'causality', with ketamine presenting, to me at least, some of the craziest non-verbal weirdness I could ever experience.

Ayahuasca, though, is my pinnacle serotonergic psychedelic. Sense of the ancient intelligence behind everything, inside everything, inside YOU.

 

[Flickering]

Well I'm about to start a regime of taking one psychedelic drug per week, for perhaps two or three months. I know people tend to advise against doing it this regularly, but I can always stop if I feel it's doing more harm than good. It'll be something different each time depending on what seems right; LSA tomorrow, and maybe I'll do acid next week.

At some point in this regime, I want to start to include the heavier substances, DMT (smoked and oral), ketamine, salvia. I guess I'm not so much asking which one I should take, or even what I should expect, but just, what would you say to someone going into this region of hallucinogens headspaces for the very first time? And, with what intent should I approach my goal of finding some kind of familiarity or resolution in the other planes? I have enough experience to know it's impossible to describe what it's like until you've been there, and it would take some of the wonder way if you could, so that doesn't worry me.

The one time I took a small dose of ayahuasca, I got a mild sense of what you're talking about. There was a subtle presence to it, and it was a much gentler experience than I'd expected from what others have told me. Of course, that was only a threshold dose.

 

[Xorkoth]

I wouldn't be so sure LSD and mushrooms couldn't take you there, you said you did tame doses. High doses (not even extreme) of LSD or mushrooms will definitely get you there.

What you describe is something I was feeling when I first tripped, back when I was 18. What I discovered was actually the inherent spirituality in myself and all parts of existence. It's a discovery that has changed the course of my life and beliefs and gave me an answer to that feeling that something was missing, and also provided an answer to that feeling that I'd been there before (except I had never experienced that until I had a breakthrough trip, and then I realized I had been to that place before, it was where I always was.

I do think ayahuasca is a good choice too, but probably better to have experienced strong doses of something a little less intense first. Then again, maybe it would be just the thing. I am just slightly concerned since you said you've always taken tame doses.

 

[weadazoid]

Having been there and back again and seen both the good and the bad of controlled insanity I have to say high doses of anything are a gamble even for the experienced pyschonaught. Set and setting have more and more to do with just how deep you get for the best results or for the worst results.

 

[pupnik]

"it ain't no sin to take off your skin and dance around in your bones" - w. burroughs

 

[BenzosBudOrBooty]

go for walks, observe. have a conversation with a stranger while on acid, but dont fear. observe.

the most acid i ever took was a bad trip, that completely changed my perception of reality. not necessarily for the better, but definitely not for the worse. it didnt turn me into a genius. but it certainly has made me more in touch with other humans who choose to be in touch with me. in touch with nature.

i traded depersonalization, anxiety, depression for schizo-affective by taking these drugs. in the end i'd say it was worth it.

 

[TwisteTexan]

DMT smoked can definitely hit the big reset button.

And you will be back in a few minutes.

 

[pmoseman]

i traded depersonalization, anxiety, depression for schizo-affective by taking these drugs. in the end i'd say it was worth it.

So you now have schizoaffective disorder?

 

[LucidSDreamr]

DMT smoked can definitely hit the big reset button.

And you will be back in a few minutes.

IV ketamine (or MXE) hole doses can do the same, more effective and easier to make sense of I think….easier the integrate with the human mind and less scary I think

 

[Shpongleton]

What you describe is something I was feeling when I first tripped, back when I was 18. What I discovered was actually the inherent spirituality in myself and all parts of existence. It's a discovery that has changed the course of my life and beliefs and gave me an answer to that feeling that something was missing, and also provided an answer to that feeling that I'd been there before (except I had never experienced that until I had a breakthrough trip, and then I realized I had been to that place before, it was where I always was.

I had the exact same experience except it took me maybe 3 trips to finally realize that psychedelics were not just some drug induced alteration, but that they were inherently a stabilizer for my life which nothing else could accomplish. As a result, maybe possibly, psychedelics were meant for me and that all along the experience was an inevitability which was always in the right time and place. In the end I was never really waiting for psychedelics to find me, nor was I searching for them. It just happened, as it were, as an expression of something greater than myself.

 

[Flickering]

To clarify: I've had 29 (as of today) psychedelic experiences before. Not all the doses I've taken are what I'd consider tame. It's only over the past year I've used the substances less frequently and intensely.

I had the exact same experience except it took me maybe 3 trips to finally realize that psychedelics were not just some drug induced alteration, but that they were inherently a stabilizer for my life which nothing else could accomplish. As a result, maybe possibly, psychedelics were meant for me and that all along the experience was an inevitability which was always in the right time and place. In the end I was never really waiting for psychedelics to find me, nor was I searching for them. It just happened, as it were, as an expression of something greater than myself.

Yeah. I get that no matter what I take, and I find the sense of it becomes less distorted the more familiar I become with the headspace. Only for me, it has always been something of a mild background feeling, rather than a realisation that has at some point encompassed my entire being. I think that is at least part of what I'm searching for - part of what some might call a breakthrough experience.

Certainly I feel most psychedelics can probably take you there, and it's just a matter of how much you wish to immerse yourself in that view of reality.

And part of the trouble is attempting to understand it intellectually. Another part of the issue is that even if I could, I don't feel it would fully resolve the emptiness in my self. (Well, that's depression for you - a hole the whole world could never fill.)

In a sense, I feel I actually already know what DMT is going to be like. That probably sounds laughable to anyone who's actually done it, so I'll retract that. But maybe it's kind of like seeing a distant country from a ship. Taking it would be like actually going to visit the country. That's the sense I have of the difference.

 

[Shpongleton]

And part of the trouble is attempting to understand it intellectually. Another part of the issue is that even if I could, I don't feel it would fully resolve the emptiness in my self. (Well, that's depression for you - a hole the whole world could never fill.)

For me personally that is really the whole point of the psychedelic experience. It's grappling over how to express it. Some people write music, some people write books or poetry, some paint, some make war, some give lectures, some devote their life to profit, some devote their life to sex, others to relationships, others to religion. None of these expressions can really be understood intellectually. We are all simply trying to understand this awe inspiring world with our limited capacities and each acting in accordance to a divine universe, imo.

I sincerely hope you find what you are looking for though as I too have wondered long and hard whether I am dealing with depression or not, when I feel a strong sense of hopelessness about the world around me.

 

[Thorns Have Roses]

even just everyday scenery that seems sublime when cast in a certain solitary light....Often I'm struck by the meaninglessness of it all, and I end up strolling the night streets, watching the metro lights on the water, looking for something to absolve the unnameable unease.

I know how it goes, we are birds of a feather.

the surest way to a world like the one I'm trying to find would be through the likes of DMT, ketamine, ibogaine, or perhaps even salvia. Maybe extreme doses of LSD or mushrooms would do the same, but my experience with those tends to show me a beautifully altered version of this world, and at best a mere glimpse of the beyond

You will not find what you are looking for in another world, and looking too hard/frequently throws me into the sober, unpleasant kind of dissociation. You live in this world, and it is only here you will find what you seek. The only beyond I can think of that is compatible with good mental health is the one the religious types have faith in, prolly 'cause they believe that it is how they act in this world that'll get'em there. YMMV.

That is not to say that I think psychedelics will not be valuable in your quest for ontological security (if that is what you are looking for, I suspect it is). However, I am incredulous of the therapeutic efficacy of NMDA antagonists and salvia. Good luck, and please keep in mind that if the drugs are helping, your need to take them should abate. Mid-long term continuous frequent usage (e.g. trippng monthly) suggests that drugs are merely a palliative.

The one time I took a small dose of ayahuasca

Aya has a sterling reputation as a medicinal psychedelic, and might be a good choice.

For me personally that is really the whole point of the psychedelic experience. It's grappling over how to express it. Some people write music, some people write books or poetry, some paint, some make war, some give lectures, some devote their life to profit, some devote their life to sex, others to relationships, others to religion. None of these expressions can really be understood intellectually.

Verily, verily.

 

[BenzosBudOrBooty]

So you now have schizoaffective disorder?

ya well, i had a lot of trauma as a child and had depersonalization, anxiety and depression as a result. LSD cured that in the longrun but it brought out my latent schizo-affective disorder. Really it's not bad other than having to take abilify everyday.

 

[Thorns Have Roses]

I know nothing about schizoaffective disorder (I am familiar with only schizo[phrenia/typal/id] disorders), what combination of symptoms led to that diagnosis versus say MDD + some anxiety disorder (with concomitant dissociation)? Did you develop positive symptoms? I find this sorta thing interesting.

For the record, I have Bipolar II Disorder and GAD, diagnosed only in January (when I finally realized that I could not trust anything I felt or thought, and needed help. Although I was on GP prescribed benzos for anxiety at that time, which I have since got off of, thankfully). Therapy has been pretty awesome thus far in helping me deal with stuff (in addition to the pharmacotherapy that makes normal life possible).



Oh, and flickering, I forget whether or not you've sought help from the mental healthcare system, have you? 'cause I think learning that my inevitable periods of major depression were fundamentally irrational has done me more good than all the psychedelic experiences I've had combined. I had always thought the void that overtook me meant meant that my life was missing something so vital that all else was incidental, learning that this is not so, and that medication can prevent that emptiness from driving me to despair*, has been a rebirth of sorts. I mean, I haven't changed my errant ways, but I now have the tools to, and I am confident I will be able to build a worthwhile life.

*fun fact: Despair is a mortal sin according to Catholocism. A mortal sin removes your state of grace, and leaves you in peril of damnation if you do not repent it. I can totally vibe with the Magisterium for once, despair is a soul sickness that can destroy even those spiritual types who have renounced worldly things/carnal desires, and set their mind to the virtuous (when I say virtue, think Socrates rather than organized religion) and lofty.

 

[BenzosBudOrBooty]

I know nothing about schizoaffective disorder (I am familiar with only schizo[phrenia/typal/id] disorders), what combination of symptoms led to that diagnosis versus say MDD + some anxiety disorder (with concomitant dissociation)? Did you develop positive symptoms? I find this sorta thing interesting.

For the record, I have Bipolar II Disorder and GAD, diagnosed only in January (when I finally realized that I could not trust anything I felt or thought, and needed help. Although I was on GP prescribed benzos for anxiety at that time, which I have since got off of, thankfully). Therapy has been pretty awesome thus far in helping me deal with stuff (in addition to the pharmacotherapy that makes normal life possible).



Oh, and flickering, I forget whether or not you've sought help from the mental healthcare system, have you? 'cause I think learning that my inevitable periods of major depression were fundamentally irrational has done me more good than all the psychedelic experiences I've had combined. I had always thought the void that overtook me meant meant that my life was missing something so vital that all else was incidental, learning that this is not so, and that medication can prevent that emptiness from driving me to despair*, has been a rebirth of sorts. I mean, I haven't changed my errant ways, but I now have the tools to, and I am confident I will be able to build a worthwhile life.

*fun fact: Despair is a mortal sin according to Catholocism. A mortal sin removes your state of grace, and leaves you in peril of damnation if you do not repent it. I can totally vibe with the Magisterium for once, despair is a soul sickness that can destroy even those spiritual types who have renounced worldly things/carnal desires, and set their mind to the virtuous (when I say virtue, think Socrates rather than organized religion) and lofty.

schizo-affective is just a more severe, psychotic version of bi-polar disorder. when i'm in a mental health room i tell them I'm bi-polar because its the same symptoms just more psychotic.

i always thought i was treating "my anxiety" with psychedelics, now i'm more conscious that it was PTSD. it worked too.

there's a lot of mental illness in my family and i got the brunt of it.

it was mushrooms that really got me out of depression. lsd that helped me become conscious of reality. for about 8 years of my life i just floated through life not knowing what the hell was going on. then becoming more conscious of "what reality is" helped me beat anxiety and depression and PTSD.

i doubt my bi-polar could get any worse and abilify does a pretty good job

i don't really complain about my mental health anymore so i'm not too concerned. this little magical pill abilify cures all my remaining symptoms. and i enjoy psychedelics too much to stop. i doubt i ever could be depressed again.

 

[ArmouredKitten]

If OP is looking for "a glimpse of beyond" or realities completely unlike this one, I would be glad to nominate Salvia as the #1 candidate for such a task.

 

[My Own Dad]

"it ain't no sin to take off your skin and dance around in your bones" - w. burroughs

Fantasic author. I'm in the middle of Naked Lunch right now. Irrelevant but I thought I'd just join in. I'm looking for the same experience as OP