Harm Reduction T Sulphate IV

[JimmineyCrikit]

Now I know the very first thing I will hear is: don't do that, when it comes to the T IV... but, people will try anyway. I know the sodium form is somewhat popular in this regard. How about sulphate? Would IV'ing the sulphate version cause cardiac arrest or something? Not sure how the sulphur delivery would affect things.. so, any info on this topic would be extremely useful..

 

[MDPV_Psychosis]

Tianeptine sulfate isnt very soluble in water. I tried to dissolve some in a glass of water and it just sat there and never dissolved even with stirring.

 

[JimmineyCrikit]

Tianeptine sulfate isnt very soluble in water. I tried to dissolve some in a glass of water and it just sat there and never dissolved even with stirring.

Yeah, but I let some dissolve on my tounge, and eventually part of it dissolved away from the rest, that part giving me the tianeptine taste that sulphate usually doesn't have. So is the rest inert, or a deadly poison??

 

[MDPV_Psychosis]

No, it's not inert. They say the Tianeptine sulfate just isn't very water soluble, so it just takes longer to absorb versus Tianeptine sodium when you swallow it. It's more like taking a time release version... It comes on slower, less intense and lasts longer. Or so they say.

My point originally was that because it's not water soluble means it's probably not ideal to IV it...

 

[Scrofula]

Or you'd need a much bigger volume to dissolve it, making the IV route less exciting/feasible.

Edit: and you let what dissolve on your tongue, a pill? That's half chalk? Yeah, any pill not pressed for sublingual route is going to leave a residue of excipients.

I really doubt those would be deadly poisons, but I wouldn't want to inject them into my bloodstream either.

 

[JimmineyCrikit]

No, it's not inert. They say the Tianeptine sulfate just isn't very water soluble, so it just takes longer to absorb versus Tianeptine sodium when you swallow it. It's more like taking a time release version... It comes on slower, less intense and lasts longer. Or so they say. My point originally was that because it's not water soluble means it's probably not ideal to IV it...

Except.. reacting the free acid is pretty easy. And apparently, the sulfate reacts MUCH faster.. not going to explain the specifics but anyone who knows what I'm talking about knows it's exceedingly simple. So the real question- the free acid does not have any sulfate (from reacting with sulfuric acid?) like this version does. What does that un-reacted sulfate do in the blood stream? Kill you? Or act as a nutrient? Pure sulfur is poison in the body, but inert forms can be quite useful. And washing that un-reacted sulfate is quite out of the reach of the at-home chemist. I can tell you that it is able to react with an incredible amount of the compound which allows the conversion to sodium salt. But does this produce actual sodium salt, or something else? This is going to come up eventually, anyway. If you know any actual chemists on here, maybe point them this way... Is this a lethal compound? It smells terrible...

 

[JimmineyCrikit]

Update- it tastes like tianeptine, but with a straight unholy sulfur smell & taste, too. Kind of scary. Someone else is going to try this, too. I'd like to know more about the chemistry here. It's one thing if something may hurt you some but it gets you high.. it's another if it will DEFINITELY KILL YOU, I think people are less likely to just dive into that. Just a thought...

 

[JimmineyCrikit]

1/2 hr in no noticeable side effects, besides a slight mental fog, and a slight pain in the kidneys I've learned to associate with overconsumption of s*@)^% bi@@%&*#)$ at excessive levels. I'm sure it is stupid as hell, but it did alleviate wd's, and the caustic effect of pure sodium salt seemed greatly reduced. I'll keep u guys posted on the situation. It's definitely not something I would consider doing except in completely dire straits.. God only knows what could have happened, or what could still happen... I would love to talk to a real chemist about this. There are other novel forms of T that are obtained thru various reactions. They all seem to be active, and not any more dangerous than the most well known compound of it. So who knows, really?? I sure don't..

 

[Scrofula]

You're talking gibberish. The only thing a sulfate v. sodium salt would affect are solubility.

I don't know why vendors are selling the sulfate salt, it doesn't look like any manufacturer ever produced it. Which means this stuff is potentially even further diverted from the crushed expired pills supply. Which means it's shadier and probably full of lots of random things I would never want injected into my veins.

The original French pills were known to have some like silicate excipients, meaning you'd be injecting glass into your veins. Silicates just get tiny enough to look like they dissolved, but they never will.

Tianeptine has an active, long-lived metabolite, too. High bioavailability. It's just pointless and stupid to inject if you had pharma-grade micron-filtered product, and straight idiotic and dangerous to inject the powdered version you bought from some Russian Nootropics website.

You don't know that this isn't expired tramadol instead, and taking massive doses will just make you seize up.

 

[Limpet_Chicken]

Also, sulfur isn't a deadly poison by any means (as 'pure sulfur' taken to mean the element sulfur itself)

Its nearly insoluble in water (although presumably slightly, as its sold here in pet shops as roll sulfur (basically just cylindrical sticks of elemental sulfur) for addition to dogs water bowls. Why, I never did bother to look up, it just serves me as a convenient source of sulfur if I don't want to walk as far as a garden center if the weather is shitty)

But whilst some sulfur compounds (such as hydrogen sulfide, the gas that gives rotten eggs their stench, is near enough as lethal as hydrogen cyanide, capable of a similarly rapid knock-down and kill) are toxic, not all of them are by any means. Plenty of them stink, but sulfur itself is pretty inert. I'd bet that if a solid chunk were swallowed it would just come out the other end after a while largely unaltered, bar some probably extra-stinky farts. And kids were dosed in victorian times with sulfur and treacle (this is even attested to in a charles dickens novel) as a way of reducing their appetite and lowering costs in food, as well as IIRC as a mild purgative in larger doses.

But sulfur is probably one of the less toxic elements around by far, if one excludes things that are utterly nontoxic, such as nitrogen (bar displacement of oxygen, which is not of course, direct toxicity, merely excluding something vital to life) and inert gases (although xenon is biologically active, and radon is of course radioactive). But there are no hazmat precautions required for dealing with elemental sulfur whatsoever, so little that my roll sulfur just sits on my lab shelves with no packaging, no gloves are needed to handle it, and about the only possible hazard would be from sulfur in a very, very, very fine dust form, that by virtue of its particulate nature could potentially be an inhalation hazard, but thats just due to inhaling fine dusts being a bad idea in general, especially insoluble ones. The only other danger, bar choking to death on a large lump of the stuff, or having a heavy, large sack full dropped on your head from a significant height, tripping over it and breaking your neck, etc. would be thermal burns from sulfur in the molten state.

Its just not a poison in the elemental state. And the sulfate ion in soluble form isn't toxic either, and is present in the body, reactive compounds are often detoxified in the liver, where glucuronide conjugation is not the sole, or not a metabolic pathway used for the purpose, as a sulfate conjugate. Magnesium sulfate (although relatively poorly absorbed orally, better so transdermally) is the common epsom salt used as a saline laxative. Intravenous MgSO4 is used for treatment of certain medical conditions, such as pre-eclampsia, and amphetamine sulfate is the commonly-used salt for preparing a suitable form for administration for amphetamine, due to the highly hygroscopic nature of the hydrochloride salt.

Sulfur and sulfate as a counterion have little to no toxicity. And sulfur itself actually has relatively little smell, it does have a characteristic odor, but it is both mild, and IMO quite pleasant. Plenty sulfur compounds, though, toxic or otherwise do have an unholy stench, dimethyl trisulfide for example can be detected for its odious rotting flesh-shitesque gutbusting stygian reek at a mere 2 parts per trillion in air, some fungi give it off, in a mixture of similar compounds, those known as 'stink horns' and if there is one about in the woods, you know it well before you see it, if you do ever see it. You can smell those things from a couple of hundred meters away, if hiking through a forest where there is a stinkhorn growing. Oxygen aside, all the chalcogens produce progressively fouler odors in their analogous compounds as a rule (E.g hydrogen sulfide smells like rotting eggs, pretty foul, hydrogen selenide is just unbearable, and even more toxic. Never had an encounter with hydrogen telluride and I really, really never want to, people exposed to Te and its compounds have reportedly killed themselves when tiny traces of Te were absorbed, and then metabolized over time to dimethyl telluride and similar noxious stinkers, the resultant 'tellurium breath' turning them into an instant social pariah, and in one case I've read of, someone doing Te chemistry at a uni, the textbooks they took out of the uni library could be told instantly as ones the poor bastard had taken out, since the tiny traces of volatile Te compounds coming out in his sweat, from his fingertips touching the book pages caused them to stink something foul. And there is of course, Shulgin's reference to that german chemist who dropped a vial of dibutyl telluride, breaking it, accidentally during a train journey. The entire carriage had to be scrapped permanently, since it could never again be rendered fit for entry.

 

[JimmineyCrikit]

Well, it's definitely tianeptine. It took away withdrawals immediately. There is a lingering taste, though, that I can only describe as "hydrochloric", although maybe that's not the right word. Onset was slower than traditional sodium salt, but duration was much shorter than traditional sulfate.. now, this is from mixing the sulfate form w heat & baking soda, basically.. not sure what it's really producing there. Hopefully it's not absolutely horrible. It doesn't feel completely safe, but like i said pulled me out of withdrawal. I definitely would like to know more about it...

 

[JimmineyCrikit]

Oh wow.. yeah, the rush is *EXACTLY* like dilaudid. Far less edge than traditional sodium. It still scares the SHIT out of me, but I'm thinking that as an oral (or even rectal?) preparation, it may be useful to forego acute withdrawals. Still would like an actual chemist on here. I know that guinea pigging myself like this is fucking stupid, so don't bother telling me that. But at least I know if someone else does this they (probably) won't die....

 

[Scrofula]

Yeah, you want to spam trip reports instead of this forum, but I don't think they'd want your bullshit over there either. The sulfate v. sodium salts won't make a fucking difference in the subjective experience of a "high" from massive overdose of tianeptine injection. They may cause a difference in subjective highs with people pretending to inject them, or who got scammed out of a lot of money buying what they thought was tianeptine sulfate, in a bit of cognitive dissonance overload.

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PS: the very-soluble-in-water sulfate ion (it's only certain salts that are insoluble) would normally make a person freak out over pH changes, since SO4-2 is the base for H2SO4, which you know as sulfuric acid. If you injected the carbonate ion, CO3-2, it would react with water to form bicarbonate and raise your blood pH dangerously. You'd expect the sulfate ion to produce bisulfate the same way, but for reasons beyond me at the moment, it doesn't do that. It remains as a sulfate ion which you just piss out. Unless you eat it, then you shit it out, or gut bacteria reduce it. You'll notice Epsom salts, MgSO4, do not smell like hydrogen sulfide, H2S, which is the rotten eggs gas, and as toxic as cyanide. It forms an acid when dissolved in water too, but it's the weak acid known as hydrosulfuric acid, while the acid form of the sulfate ion is just sulfuric acid.